Best 88-key fully weighted hammer action controller?

[dave999z]

Hey folks,

I am looking at 88-key fully weighted hammer-action controllers. I do not need a million sliders, etc. - I'm really just going to use it for piano sounds. It doesn't have to have aftertouch.

I'm thinking of the Kurzweil SP2X ($1250). I know part of that price is the onboard sounds/effects it has, which I don't necessarily need (really just need a midi controller), though may be nice to have if I want to noodle around without the computer on (can just plug it right into an amp). But I like the Kurzweil keyboard action.

Just curious whether anyone has any experience with these. I have tried a Kurzweil PC1 before and liked it. I assume the SP2X feels the same. I tried the M-Audio keystation 88 Pro at GC and wasn't thrilled by it. Have not been able to try a CME controller. Any thoughts on that one? Any others to consider?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[dantheman65]

It's entirely about feel. You don't care about sliders/features/onboard sounds so just go play a few and see what you think.

I played the SP2X and it wasn't bad. Stay the hell away from the SP88x - I was intent on buying one just from the brand name but once I actually had a shot I found the keys very squishy and fatiguing.

Just play a few and buy the best feeling one. God help you if it turns out to be the Fantom 8.

[kittonian]

I'm not sure why you weren't thrilled with the Keystation Pro 88. I use one on a daily basis and have also used it in live situations. Works flawlessly and feels really nice to play. I purchased the optional MIDI sustain pedal and have been very happy with mine. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. I tried a bunch of keyboards when I was searching and this was the only one that made sense (dollar and feel wise).

[warhead]

I like my old Alesis QS8...great action! Great piano sounds!

War

[Jim Williams]

Rhodes Mk 7 with the midi option. It has full polyphonic aftertouch with splits.
BTW, they throw in a real Rhodes piano in there as well!

Rhodes Music Corporation: 2007 Mark 7 Rhodes Piano

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
V.P. Electronic developement, Rhodes Music Corporation

[Protools Guy]

Keystation Pro 88 here as well. Lovin' it!

[Bounce]

I own a Kurzweil PC88 and one of the keys broke so I bought an M Audio Pro Keys 88 as I needed one ASAP. I actually liked the piano sounds better on the M Audio (go figure). However the M Audio has a weird velocity crossover point no matter what setting it's on so that you can never really get the feel "right" in the velocity dept IMHO. Therefore (after one of the keys broke on the M Audio after one year) I was looking for the best feeling controller that wold be super reliable. After much research I landed on the old Yamaha KX88 which is rated as one of the best there is in the feel and reliability dept. Ray Charles seemed to like it! I believe it even has wooden keys. This keyboard feels great! I bought it for 4 or 5 hundred bucks. Excellent. The Yamaha has no sounds but I use soft samplers for sounds anyway or outboard.

P.S. The keys were broken on the other controllers by a client of one of the other engineers. Caveman, I guess! LOL

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by kittonian

I'm not sure why you weren't thrilled with the Keystation Pro 88. I use one on a daily basis and have also used it in live situations. Works flawlessly and feels really nice to play.

I thought that one was a little on the floppy side. I bought a Yamaha CP33 then returned it because it just didn't have the "feel". Oddly enough, I ended up wih a Casio Previa for about 400 bucks or so. Best news is to move it I can tuck it under one arm and not have to put down my cappucino. (If I want a Kurzweil sound I use it to trigger a module.) It's really subjective--try a bunch of them. In a way they all suck.

-R

[into the white]

On the cheaper side the Studiologic/Fatar SL 990s have great action. I've heard though that the Kawai has the best, that's over a grand though I believe.

[area51recording]

Originally Posted by warhead

I like my old Alesis QS8...great action! Great piano sounds!

War

I agree about the feel....sounds like a banjo to me in the middle register though...

[tnsngwtr]

I'm a big fan of the Yamaha S80 and S90. A little more pricey, but it's by far my favorite action. I'd give anything for a Yamaha controller with that action.

[vixapphire]

i'm currently shopping for either a kurzweil midiboard or roland mkb 1000 controller; way old-school but i like the "platform" on which to put other gear, drinks, lava lamps, etc. on these two.

if anyone has a line on one of these for a reasonable price, please pm me.

vic

[Lerxst]

I've had an Oberheim MC3000 in the sudio for a long time (used live as well). It's the best controller I've ever had. The key feel is authentic, and as a midi controller, I have not found better.

The fatar stuff has always let me down as far as reliability they brake easy - and the feel is cheesy IMO. I tried a Roland one time but didn't like it either (feel/function wise)

~Lerxst

[theom]

I am no piano player but,
Old yamaha kx 88's always feel really good to me.
weighted but not hammer action

Dirt cheap on the used market.

[DSD_Mastering]

I'm using a Kurzweil PC2x and really like it. I'm sure you can find them on the used market for a decent price.

Regards,
Bruce

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by dave999z

Hey folks,

I am looking at 88-key fully weighted hammer-action controllers. I do not need a million sliders, etc. - I'm really just going to use it for piano sounds. It doesn't have to have aftertouch.

I'm thinking of the Kurzweil SP2X ($1250). I know part of that price is the onboard sounds/effects it has, which I don't necessarily need (really just need a midi controller), though may be nice to have if I want to noodle around without the computer on (can just plug it right into an amp). But I like the Kurzweil keyboard action.

Just curious whether anyone has any experience with these. I have tried a Kurzweil PC1 before and liked it. I assume the SP2X feels the same. I tried the M-Audio keystation 88 Pro at GC and wasn't thrilled by it. Have not been able to try a CME controller. Any thoughts on that one? Any others to consider?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I would strongly recommend trying any controllers you're considering -- using the piano VI you intend to use if popssible.

I didn't even try controllers out of my price range and I sort of regret that. I bough the first CME 88 and I like it pretty well -- but not everyone does. (And their documentation that came with my unit might as well be a download from Engrish.com -- it's really laughable. Which might not be so funny if you're trying to figure out something.)

I also tried the M-Audio, which I would not even have considered buying for an instant. I hated it. (Others may love it, of course!) While I was waiting for the 'board to be brought up from the storage room, I fooled around with a number of dedicated consumer digitals (they were there, I was waiting; you know the kind, "furniture grade" cabinets, built in speakers, etc.) and I much preferred the CME to those. But that's not saying a lot, I don't think. (And, again, far from everyone likes the rather heavy feel of the CME. You may be disappointed. I'd hate to see you drive 300 miles to try one only to be cursing me the whole 300 miles back home. )

But keyboard feel of a hammer weighted keyboard is so intensely personal, I think one should do everything one can to get his hands on those he's considering.


[UPDATE, June 2011... CME has proved to be all but capable of delivering reliable drivers. I use my unit strictly via MIDI, not the supplied USB. And, again, the action may or may not be what folks like. If I was shopping today, I'd shop harder. At the time, money was a big issue but there's no point in saddling yourself with something that might not prove satisfactory.]

[ALL*MYTEE]

Is price an issue? The Yamaha Motifs and digital pianos have the best action I've ever played. I don't know if the P80 type pianos can be used just as controllers through USB, though I'm sure they have midi. The Motifs can use USB and they're wonderful.

[D K]

If you can find one - Yamaha KX88

[ssl4000]

Motif ES8 or XS8

[intolerance]

Yamaha CP-33!!!!!

[anonymouse]

it has a real acoustic grand piano action with hammers and whippens

i have one for sale for 5k

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Bounce

P.S. The keys were broken on the other controllers by a client of one of the other engineers. Caveman, I guess! LOL

Hey! Don't start ragging on cavemen. Some of my best friends are cavemen.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[santibanks]

Kawai is praised a lot. And I like my Ensoniq KS32. The old ensoniq boards have some heavier keys that are (I think) more a representation of a real grand. The newer fatar based boards are really too light I think. Yamaha's too.

(I believe kurzweil, roland, clavia, korg and alesis use fatar boards)

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Hey! Don't start ragging on cavemen. Some of my best friends are cavemen.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

You're right, that was highly insensitive of me and I humbly apologize to the indigenous cave people however heavy handed they may be.

[dan p]

I use a pc 88 just as a controller!Never any problems.Key action feels pretty good.Never use use onboard sounds!

Dan P

[dbbubba]

My wife bought a Roland PF5500 at a pawn shop for $800.00 about fifteen years ago.
It looks like a BAD modern-design spinet thing, but the action is VERY good.

I have had many, real piano players play it and they always like it.
IT JUST WEIGHS A TON!

The sound is the early Roland piano reproducing system, but it is VERY believe-able in a mix!

It is my main MIDI controller.
I prefer "faster" Roland KYBDs for MIDI drum programming, but this thing will work.

I had a Synclavier KYBD sitting next to it for a few years and it beat that damn Synclavier KYBD's action TO DEATH!
I used the Roland PF-5500 to control the Synclavier!

[joelpatterson]

If the actual unit isn't godawfully heavy, like you say, then the piano player can't really slam on it and feel-- momentarily, dreaming obviously-- that they're playing a "real" piano. Real pianos you don't wobble and pitch when you play them.

[BezowinZ]

Old, but my Roland A-80 has great action.

[GYang]

The best.
Most likely Kawai MP8 MKII.
No difference compared to real thing, worth asked price, no doubt.

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by warhead

I like my old Alesis QS8...great action! Great piano sounds!

War

Funny you should mention that I am seeking a weighted action keybord for my daughter whose name happend to be...Alesis