Solo artists: DIY vs. "real" studio

[Funky D]

Hi all,

First post! This site is thoroughly addictive; it's probably a good thing I haven't really dug in until now

I'm guessing many of you record personal projects when not recording others. My dilemma may ring a bell, and hopefully can fuel some good discussion.

I'm working on a solo album; we'll call it synth-based pop-rock for simplicity's sake. After roughing out the tracks, I started thinking about doing the final vocals in a "real" studio (vs. my small apartment "studio"). My reasoning at the time:
1. I can spare the neighbors my whaling (although they don't seem to mind)
2. Better signal chain, more mic choices
3. Better acoustics and ambience
4. Someone else to push the buttons, coax a good performance, tell me I'm flat, sharp, etc. The someone else I've found is very good at what he does.

Along those lines, I figured I could then bring the final vocals back home, record the backups myself, and then return to the "real" studio for final mixing. Although my mixes have turned out great in the past, I don't mix often enough so it takes me forever. Not to mention a second opinion can never hurt things (especially a second opinion with more experience than I'll ever have).

But now I'm second guessing both of those decisions. Reasoning for recording vocs myself:
1. I'm obsessively anal-retentive. I hate autotune. I record over and over till its right. And then I spend hours comping it all together, even though it probably all sounds the same. In other words, I don't know how long it would take in the studio.
2. Oh yeah, the longer it takes the more $$$$ I spend.
3. ...not to mention the "real" studio freaks me out, just a bit, as I've never done it before.
4. I could always take my gear someplace else, eliminating the neighbor factor.

And as far as mixing goes, there are a lot of tricks I want to try this time around, especially with effects. I want to play around with my UAD Space Echo, I want to play around with Reaktor. Basically, I want to play with the toys in my studio. It would be great for the engineer to mix on my box... but my room isn't exactly treated for monitoring (and there's no room for any treatment!) And really, the pride you get after finishing a record yourself... could make it worth the extra effort/time/pain. Could.

So, any thoughts? I'm probably not the only one who's been in this situation. And I'm probably not the only one who's written a post on here when he should be doing music!

-Paul

[drBill]

Pros get good money for a reason. They bring an extra "something" to the table that you won't get by yourself. Have you thought about the fact that your vocals might be better with him producing and recording you than you will get by obsessing over it on your own. If you trust this guy and believe in him, I'd go that direction. Just my opinion though. My guess is that you're going to bang your head over this decision. My advice is that if you are having too much difficulty making this decision, flip a coin, get going and don't look back.

[bewarethanatos]

Originally Posted by drBill

Pros get good money for a reason. They bring an extra "something" to the table that you won't get by yourself. Have you thought about the fact that your vocals might be better with him producing and recording you than you will get by obsessing over it on your own. If you trust this guy and believe in him, I'd go that direction. Just my opinion though. My guess is that you're going to bang your head over this decision. My advice is that if you are having too much difficulty making this decision, flip a coin, get going and don't look back.

I had a nice long reply written, but I read this again and realized I could have just summarized by quoting.

[James Meeker]

I'd find and communicate with an engineer/producer first. That way you can make sure what you're bringing to the studio is going to work out on their equipment, plus you may get some tips to take things to the next level as far as what you are doing at home. Or you may find that you can use a higher sample rate than normal, or whatever.

I'd highly recommend "shopping" for an engineer that fits your goals and has experience doing your type of music. Finding the right man for the job will bring a lot to the table.

Also, I find that most vocalists are *terrible* at recognizing their best vocal takes. Usually they focus on the most technically correct versions and often not the ones with proper emotion and feel. I recommend doing all the vocals at the studio with proper guidance and production. Also, it takes your mind off the technical side of things.

If you are prepared and having a good singing day you should be able to get main vocals and backgrounds pretty quickly.

Also, I recommend spending an hour or two finding your best vocal chain. Try 3-4 different mics and preamp settings until you find the most appropriate/flattering for your voice and music. That is time very well spent!

The real advantage of the consumer studio gear is what you are using it for--taking care of the things that you can do, demoing material, working stuff out, getting some of the stuff recorded. Basically preparation for the studio to get it (hopefully) sounding top notch.

Hope this helps.

[thermos]

On the mixing tip:

Sounds just like what I went through when I made my first record. Except that native daws weren't what they are now, and I did it all on a Roland VS 1680. I decided to do it all myself (play all the instruments, and mix), which yes takes FOREVER if you are a stickler and have no one to tell you what you are doing wrong. When I was done tracking, I did a mix of the album that I was very unhappy with. So I took 1 song into a guy I respect very much, paid him $200 and ended up with a very good mix, but it lost my stamp and the obtuseness I had grown fond of (for better or worse). I decided to remix the record myself, and it singlehandedly jump started my recording/mixing/producing career which now makes up 1/2 of my income (the other half of which is playing).

On the singing tip:

I've had clients before who I have recommended to buy a good mic/pre/converter and do it on their own time because they are so anal, only to find that their endless analness leaves them chasing their tail. Some people really need an outside opinion, and some people really don't. So maybe if you aren't getting the results you want at home, take it to a good studio.

[u b k]

record the vocals in another room. you will likely get a better performance, in less time, with fewer takes, with less effort.

why? because you have to. and because someone will be helping you.

if the above turns out not to be true, at least you will then know the answer for sure and can proceed accordingly and end this pointless hand-wringing.

iow, if you record in the outside studio, you will have your answer either way, and that certainty is more valuable to you right now than the actual vocal track.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Funky D]

Great replies, thanks! You all confirmed my gut feelings for doing vocs in the studio... I guess an engineer/producer also gives that "audience" factor, which is always better than singing to yourself. The only downer comes from thinking, damn, I could be putting this money towards a new vocal chain for MY studio...

Thermos, I went through a similar situation in my last band. We recorded/mixed some songs, realized they sounded like crap, then re-recorded everything. After this step a friend of mine who does this professionally wanted to do a rough mix of one of the songs. It sounded fine, but not even close to what I had in mind.

On this thought, is it common/acceptable to ask an engineer for a rough mix of a track, to get a sense of how he'll interpret the music?

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Funky D

On this thought, is it common/acceptable to ask an engineer for a rough mix of a track, to get a sense of how he'll interpret the music?

Sure, but if they're busy they may not be able to do it. Chances are if they are busy they're pretty good. Remember that is a pretty big commitment on their part--probably between 2-5 hours to do a rough mix like that for a demo.

[uncle duncan]

You could take your mic and pre to a studio and compare with whatever they have, spending some time trying to find the right combination for the track. (The mic/pre choice could change, depending on the track.)

From what you learned at that one vocal session, (including doing a take with your mic for comparison) you'd know whether to proceed with studio time or a new mic purchase.

You could bring a song down there for a mix, and just sit and watch what the guy does. That's a good way to learn. However, if you're intent on him copying your mix, you should let him know at the start, so he doesn't waste your time setting up a mix you're going to hate. That's a problem with self-produced musicians - they have this preconceived notion in their head, and if a mix guy comes up with a different approach, it's going to be automatically wrong, even if it sounds better.

The point here is to try things. You don't have to commit to record or mix the whole project somewhere else. Just do it a tune at a time and see what happens.