AKG D112 wins bass drum mic shootout by longshot

[Diegel]

I am just curious why so many people put down the akg d112 for bass drum. My guess is they have poor cables, poor preamps, noisy rooms, poor monitoring, and actually most importantly probably position the mic too far away (If close micing every other drum it doesn't make sense to me to make an exception for the bass drum and place the mic any further from the skin than the snare and tom mics. And from testing it sounds best to me that way too. Also you avoid a lot of bleed and get a cleaner bass drum sound by doing that. And if you want to capture the full sound of the drum I suggest a U47fet on the outside or some kind of condensor but not a dynamic). I did a lot of listening over the course of the past few weeks to recordings I did and found the akg D112 to be the "best" all around mic for placement inside the bass drum near the skin from the usual popular choices. It just seems to have everything there and no muddiness going on yet has all the low end information. Here are my findings:

Chain = Premier XPK Bass Drum -> Mic -> Mogami Cable, Brent Averill 312, Apogee AD16x, Sonar 6, Apogee mini-dac, barefoot mm27's.

Audix D6 - 2 dimensional and artificially clicky (I can see how people with mud problems are delighted to hear their bass drum finally cut through the mix but once you solve the mud problems (cheap converters, poor cables, poor preamp, etc, you are left with a 2 dimensional clicker for a bass drum)

Sennheiser 421 - The more I use this mic the less I like it and the more it sounds like a lo fi mushy and mic and sounds pinched on the attack and altogether not a solid sound. Makes the bass drum somewhat basketbally (I have several of them so I know its not just a bad mic)

AKG D112 - All the attack and low end information is there nothing more nothing less. Sounds 3 dimensional, ballsy, clear, solid, and just simply the way it "should" sound.

Audio Technica ATM-25 - After hearing so much about this mic I was expecting a lot but where is all the low end information? All I hear is mid range but I guess I would have to give this mic second place.

[peeder]

Let us hear samples chief. Post them blind and random order.

[Diegel]

I would love to but I am not so web savvy how do I do that? I do have a website that my friend is helping me setup but is there a way to do it in the mean time?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Diegel

I would love to but I am not so web savvy how do I do that? I do have a website that my friend is helping me setup but is there a way to do it in the mean time?

Cut out a few sample kicks, say 5 hits per mic, isolated from the rest of the kit one would think. Make 256kbps MP3s of them, or just leave them as WAVs. Give them number names in random order (remember which is which of course, but don't tell us for 24 hours, let us guess). Click Manage Attachments button down beneath the editor when you go to post a reply, and upload the files with your test description.

[Diegel]

Thanks. Comin right up.

[Byrne]

I find it ironic that you have a quality chain with Averill and Apogee, Barefoot, et al, and you're miking a Premier XPK. Congrats on getting a sound you're happy with. I bet if you used a nice kit, EVERYTHING would sound better. Just saying...

[ersheff]

Originally Posted by Diegel

If close micing every other drum it doesn't make sense to me to make an exception for the bass drum and place the mic any further from the skin than the snare and tom mics.

Isn't this a physics of sound thing? If you want to capture lower frequencies, you need to take into account that they take larger distances to develop. Maybe I'm way off the mark on this, but this is usually why I don't stuff a mic right up against the head of a kick drum, and I'm usually satisfied with the thump I get.

[Steffmo]

I'm glad you found a kick mike you like, although I'm not particularly impressed that you had to imply that anyone disagreeing with you must certainly have inferior or poorly maintained gear, of simply not know where to position the mic, as you of course do.

A D112 ia a fine mic, really a pioneering mic in that it was really the first mic to be tailored to kick. These days I tend to prefer my D112 as a floor tom mic, if I have either of my two favorites around, the Shure Beta 52 or the Sennheiser 602. I like the Shure for general rock/blues/country, and the 602, which has a bit more click, when the music has more low end content.

Placement of course may vary from drum to drum and player to player.

BTW I've used every one of the mikes you mentioned with much seccess on different projects. They are ALL fine microphones when the application, and yes, the applicator, is correct.

[RCM - Ronan]

Too bad you did not have a Shure Beta 52 to play with.

[Diegel]

Ok guys take your guess which is which and tell me which you like best. There was a very tiny rattling coming from the bass drum and I mean really tiny you might not even notice it on the recordings but if you do I hope you can ignore it.

[Nu-tra]

I like the beta 52 in the price range. To me the EV ND868 wipes the floor with the AKG

[Diegel]

Originally Posted by Byrne

I find it ironic that you have a quality chain with Averill and Apogee, Barefoot, et al, and you're miking a Premier XPK. Congrats on getting a sound you're happy with. I bet if you used a nice kit, EVERYTHING would sound better. Just saying...

Hah. Funny you mention this. I was using a tama starclassic maple set that I paid over $3,000 for. But I sold it and got the Premier kit because it just didn't have the life, character, musicality and just wasn't as fun to play as the xpk kit. Not to mention I think maple (expensive) drums sound more "professional" by themselves but together with other instruments maple drums seem to disappear in the mix even just hearing them live in a room. While birch drums retain there clarity and separation and there are some really great sounding birch kits and the Premier XPK is one of them. My next drum purchase will probably be a gretsch renown maple which is one of the few maple kits I really like. There are not too many other drum sets I am really crazy about and I have watched a lot of the modern drummer videos and have listened to a lot of different drummers and recordings.

[Nu-tra]

Birch rules! I have a birch sonor/professional drum shop kit. records really well.

[syra]

Although I never heard the ATM-25, I'll bite...

1:D112
2:ATM-25 or 421
3:ATM-25 or 421
4:D6

[thermos]

Originally Posted by rcm

Too bad you did not have a Shure Beta 52 to play with.

Yep! As a drummer who grew up with a D-112, (what my pops has) I was BEYOND stoked when I heard the Beta 52. Finally the kick sounded good. Its sounded great ever since.

[peeder]

Order of preference and then my guess of ID:

1: D6, Nice warm lower mids with enough thump, will EQ beautifully
3: MD-421, the thump of the D112 but not as hollow and artificial
4: D112, Hollow and flabby sounding, with this too-crisp top picking up all the comb filtering inside the kick, but you might like it
2: ATM-25, Is that doorstop actually a mic? (Might be a broken mic even...?)

Thanks for the shootout

Oh and fix that rattle...

(My locker has the 868 as its kick mic although I also have m88, 421, re20...haven't shot the 868 out though as I haven't been able to record real drums in a while )

[syra]

Originally Posted by thermos

Yep! As a drummer who grew up with a D-112, (what my pops has) I was BEYOND stoked when I heard the Beta 52. Finally the kick sounded good. Its sounded great ever since.

Dunno about that...its much more of a hit or miss with me...

[bewarethanatos]

I hate to sound negative, but I wasn't impressed by any of those clips.

I use an EV ND/868 regularly at the studio. Love it.

I have a Beta 52 for my own rig, but I'm not much of a fan. If anyone wants to buy mine, PM me. I can make the 52 work, but personal preference will always lean towards the 868. I actually prefer the Beta 91 over the 52.

As long as you have a good drummer behind the kit, you should be able to get a decent sound from any mic with good placement. YMMV, IMO, all that stuff.

[deve]

I am a big fan of 421. But lately I had some success with 112 due to a placement suggested by a fellow slut here. 1/3 inside the drum next to the shell off axis to the beater with a 45 degree angle.

[Diegel]

Sounds like I gotta get an EV ND/868 to try up against my akg d112. I find it hard to imagine something can beat it. It just seems to have everything there no more no less than what it should. And it seems like I can sculpt it with eq anyway I want. No other mic I tried seems to have the low end information and just balls and integrity the D112 delivers. Maybe some other mics sound better in a mix raw but I would rather have all the information first before making decisions on how to sculpt it to fit in the mix.

[bewarethanatos]

Originally Posted by deve

I am a big fan of 421. But lately I had some success with 112 due to a placement suggested by a fellow slut here. 1/3 inside the drum next to the shell off axis to the beater with a 45 degree angle.

I've done something similar with the 868 on the kick, but I was more like 1/2- 2/3 in. Ran it through the Chandler LTD-1 (EQ'd a bit, nothing drastic) and I got a nice punchy kick sound. Kept the lows without being muddy, and got the click of the beater without sounding like a basketball. EDIT: Actually I wasn't next to the shell, I was pretty close to the center, if not a little off.

Do you use the 421's on toms?

[edcampos]

1 - 421
2 - AT
3 - D112
4 - D6

I've never used any AT mics, so I don't know what they sound like. I've used the other 3 (I actually own one of each) but don't recall ever using the 421 on kick. I have other mics that I usually use in kicks and never felt the need to give the 421 a try. Maybe I should next time...

Thanks for the samples! Don't mean to be negative and mean no disrespect, but I am not very impressed by any of them. I applaud your taking the time to do this for us though. Sometimes it takes balls to do something like this. If I were in your situation I would probably be looking at getting another drum, but if you are happy with the one you have now then I would say play with mic placement, etc and lose mic 2 (at least for that application). Best of luck with everything! Let us know which is which and maybe post a sample of the sound you ended up going with (in context). Thank you again,

Ed

[SocietyOfMind]

1 - An acceptable sound (although not brilliant), with enough chest thump and sounds (relatively) natural. Low end, mid and click are fairly balanced. This is the mic I'd pick for the particular kick.

2 - Sounds like someone thumping a large cardboard box with his fist, with an added rattle.

3 - A bit woolly, with a fair bit of low end and the rattle/click quite pronounced. The second best of the bunch, given the kick. Not natural enough for my tastes.

4 - All click and rattle with no real low end. Ties for last place with 2.

My ranking: 1, 3, 2, 4

[Joram]

As I didn't have big speakers connected to this computer, I first listened to the samples on the tiny thingies next to the screen. My opinion:
2 and 4 are quite usable for the "click"-component in a bassdrum. 1 is too mid-rangy and 3 is too sloppy.

5 minutes later and now with more serieus monitoring:
1. seems to be a usable bd-mic with ok low-end; i guess it's the D112
2. is not a bd-mic, has a sennheiser-like sound so I think it's a 421
3. is still a bit sloppy, sounds compressed but a usable low-end.
4. what is this!?

Although none of the mics is overwhelming in quality my conclusion: a combination of 2 and 3, or 1, are ok depending on music/drumkit/drumstyle.

[u b k]

it would've been nice if the guy was actually playing a beat, something that resembled music.

i could see 2 and 3 being useful in my world, if i needed some kind of clicky tone that doesn't actually sound like a real drum in a room. 3 actually had some wood in the tone, might be a usable color.

4 was just plain awful, and should be shot on sight.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Ahellam]

love the D6 on kick, as well as the d112, now if someone would make a mic that was those two combined that would kick ass.

[lowfreq33]

The thing about the D112 is that it's tailored to give you a "ready to go" kick sound, there's a pretty distinct eq curve to it. So that's fine if that's the sound you're going for, but you're kind of stuck with it. I usually prefer the 421 inside the kick, it's just a little bit more neutral, and it takes eq better. I have a d112 that hasn't left it's box in about 2 years.

[vespiz]

I'll bite I'm listening through AKG 240Studio headphones.

1. Probably the AT (haven't heard it)
2. MD421 (I still remember this sound from a project I did.. didn't quite work out..)
3. D112
4. D6 (ah, yes, there's the [somewhat] papery attack)

[ihearsounds]

I would shoot that AKG112, i dont appreciate that mic/sound. I guess its built solid or solid other ways why it´s so much used.. ?

[ryanojohn]

1: d112
2: atm25
3: md421
4: d6


I love the D6, and I didn't really like any of the sounds in this shootout.

how about an e602? this sample is raw from a session last week...