Are Adam A7 and sub worth it for an untreated room?

[Bluemoa]

If i do go ahead a treat a room it's not going to be for a while, but im wondering if it's even worth it to get the adam monitors and the subwoofer if im just going to be doing hobby mixing in my bedroom or practice room for now. It's that or the Yamaha HS80 or 50 set with subwoofer, which will save me some cash but i wanna know what you guys think if it's gonna be worth it. thanks

[DSD_Mastering]

Hell... I couldn't get the A7's to sound good in a purpose-built room!

Regards,
Bruce

[PerfectPitch]

Originally Posted by Bluemoa

If i do go ahead a treat a room it's not going to be for a while, but im wondering if it's even worth it to get the adam monitors and the subwoofer if im just going to be doing hobby mixing in my bedroom or practice room for now. It's that or the Yamaha HS80 or 50 set with subwoofer, which will save me some cash but i wanna know what you guys think if it's gonna be worth it. thanks

The ADAM A7 are great. Have tried a lot of speakers, and these will probably be the ones I end up with. Better than the Genelec 8030A and a bit cheaper too. If it´s expensive for you, don´t buy the sub, just the speakers. Don´t buy the Yamaha speakers, they are not in the same league.

[KFMG]

Happy A7 owner here. Go with ADAM you will not be disappointed. I wouldn't get the sub until the room is treated though.

[andygomez]

Just got them a week ago so far so very good I dont think the Yamaha's even compare

[taperocket]

I've been mixing through my new A7's for about 2 weeks now, they took a little getting used to but not much and they sound crystal clear. I don't think you need to pair a sub with them to get good mixes personally.

[Yankee Doodle]

Depends on the size and shape of your room...i.e. Rectangular rooms are considered better than square.

Loading up your room full of crap like full bookcases can add some natural diffusion.

What kind of music are you working on? Are you monitoring loud? etc.

Are you planning on doing serious mixing in there or just for tracking and overdubbing of virtual instruments?

I have found that I am a much better tracking than mix engineer. And lean toward wearing the Producer/Artist hat. So for that reason I am not overly concerned with the sweet-spot as I usually take my projects elsewhere to mix.

Those Adam A7's do sound nice however!

Good luck.

Wasserdude

[Bluemoa]

Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle

Depends on the size and shape of your room...i.e. Rectangular rooms are considered better than square.

Loading up your room full of crap like full bookcases can add some natural diffusion.

What kind of music are you working on? Are you monitoring loud? etc.

Are you planning on doing serious mixing in there or just for tracking and overdubbing of virtual instruments?

I have found that I am a much better tracking than mix engineer. And lean toward wearing the Producer/Artist hat. So for that reason I am not overly concerned with the sweet-spot as I usually take my projects elsewhere to mix.

Those Adam A7's do sound nice however!

Good luck.

Wasserdude

Not loud mixing, just enough to get a sense of bass. Rock/metal music mainly, some funk and random other tunes. Mainly id use real guitars/bass/vocals and virtual drums for demos and real drums for actually recordings. I dont wanna obsess over this detail, it's mainly for fun in my spare time but when it comes time to make a real recording to sell at shows and put on the radio then ill obsess a little bit. I like the "home made" unpolished sound. I usually end up making stuff sound the way i want it from tracking to final mix. My goal is just to have the right equipment for the job that i wont regret buying later because i should've gotten something that works better

[Deviated]

I just ordered A7s last week from Sweetwater and I am on a waiting list to get these things 3 to 5 weeks. I hope they are worth the wait.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Bluemoa

My goal is just to have the right equipment for the job that i wont regret buying later because i should've gotten something that works better

then you will in all likelihood be happy with the a7's, they fit that bill admirably.


gregoire
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[edham]

What I am about to say is heretical - especially from a guy who is starting an acoustics company ......

but I have mixed records in ad hoc rooms with little or no treatment and have not had a problem getting good mixes that made the client smile on mastering day.

Treatment IS important and can both improve your work AND save your sanitity - but I have found that if I sit close enough to the monitors and keep them away from the walls I end up with decent mixes.

So my caveat is that if your room isn't big enough keep your monitors off the walls than treatment is that much more important.

Adams are all about the mids and I have not found them to be room dependant.

Seriously though - Get the A7's.
Then spend $200 on OC 705. Leave it naked for a few days. Your wife or girlfreind will be horrified at the asthetics of your room and then you can ask her to stop at the fabric store for you.

Then try and wrap the 705 in fabric and do it BADLY. Show her your work as if your proud of it. She will again be horrified and before you know it she'll have your panels perfectly wrapped.

When she's done - take her to a nice dinner for about $100.
Adam A7's
$200 705
Free fabric
$100 for dinner.

Priceless

[DeathMonkey]

Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle

I have found that I am a much better tracking than mix engineer. And lean toward wearing the Producer/Artist hat. So for that reason I am not overly concerned with the sweet-spot as I usually take my projects elsewhere to mix.

Those Adam A7's do sound nice however!

Good luck.

Wasserdude

I'm in exactly the same spot. I use the JBL LSR series w/room correction, and I like em. But I was thinking about ADAMS as well. Anyone know how they compare?

[TyRip]

Why on earth would you spend over $1500 on monitors when you can get a huge acoustic gain for those or any other set of monitors for less than half of that?

Do you realize that in a small room 4 good 4" bass traps will make a drastic improvement in your overall sound? If you get them from GIK that is around $300.

I own A7s and they are great, but why on earth wouldn't you at least try some bass traps and hold out on the sub? Buy 8 traps, just sit them around the room where you hear low end collecting, and skip the sub for now, you don't even have to bother hanging them if you don't want to right now.

That is a much better solution IMO. thumbsup

[gigantorbuzz]

i just got my A7s in today and so far i am loving them. i was afraid of not having enough low end but they sound great. go for em!

[u b k]

Originally Posted by TyRip

...why on earth wouldn't you at least try some bass traps and hold out on the sub? That is a much better solution IMO. thumbsup

completely agreed.


gregoire
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ubk
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[nivek_yoccm]

I went with the A7's about 6 mos ago and love them. I added a Sub8 and, while I think it's also outstanding, I don't think it's at all necessary. It serves more to clarify for me how much my room sucks: +/-~30dB in the low end.

You might try checking your low end w a mic at the listening position. If it varies like mine does, the Sub may just be a pain in the ass until you can treat the room or get in a room you can treat. Good luck!

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by TyRip

Why on earth would you spend over $1500 on monitors when you can get a huge acoustic gain for those or any other set of monitors for less than half of that?

Because acoustics don't have that "Bling" factor. You're preaching to the choir. People would much rather try to get a great sound with the latest and greatest equipment than to buy some insulation! It's not sexy!

Regards,
Bruce

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Because acoustics don't have that "Bling" factor. You're preaching to the choir. People would much rather try to get a great sound with the latest and greatest equipment than to buy some insulation! It's not sexy!

Regards,
Bruce

Hey if it helps I can put a chord on our bass traps (custom charge of $45.00) so you can plug it into the wall. In fact I can put a couple flashing lights that read "absorbing bass" and "absorbing MORE bass" if that helps. We are still working on the lava lamp model, which should be out fall of 2008.

Not sexy enough?

I can throw in a couple playboy mags.. Or i can spray paint LA2A on the front of the panel. Your pick, same charge.

Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Bluemoa

If i do go ahead a treat a room it's not going to be for a while, but im wondering if it's even worth it to get the adam monitors and the subwoofer if im just going to be doing hobby mixing in my bedroom or practice room for now. It's that or the Yamaha HS80 or 50 set with subwoofer, which will save me some cash but i wanna know what you guys think if it's gonna be worth it. thanks

I understand your thinking which is if you get a sub and crank it up then you will hear more bass. Right? Well sure you will hear more low end but the low end will be more unclear and impossible to really mix to.

Here is a graph of a untreated room. I think it is pretty easy to see why a sub would do nothing but make this mess even worse.



What you want is tight even bass (you can hear every note or drum hit perfect) and the only way to get that is to treat the room. Not add to the problem.

Glenn

Glenn

[darkswan]

can someone explain to me why you would want to mix with bass traps when in all likelyhood most listeners will never have the same convenience in the real world?

Im thinking about the A-7s as my first set of quality monitors, partially because they don't produce a lot of bass, as the vast majority of environments I think most people listen to music in don't have better bass response than the A7s offer.

[Bluemoa]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

I understand your thinking which is if you get a sub and crank it up then you will hear more bass. Right? Well sure you will hear more low end but the low end will be more unclear and impossible to really mix to.

Here is a graph of a untreated room. I think it is pretty easy to see why a sub would do nothing but make this mess even worse.



What you want is tight even bass (you can hear every note or drum hit perfect) and the only way to get that is to treat the room. Not add to the problem.

Glenn

Glenn

Yea, i see what u are saying, my main concern is to be able to hear those low frequencies and be able to do something about them. It would suck to do all the mixing and whatnot only to find out there was nasty low frequency resonates going on the whole time.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by darkswan

can someone explain to me why you would want to mix with bass traps when in all likelyhood most listeners will never have the same convenience in the real world?

for the same reason you mix with monitors that most listeners will never have: you need to know that what you're hearing resembles reality in some predictable fashion, so your mix will translate to systems other than the one you have in your room.

that means you need to know the truth, or something akin to it; otherwise, you could be boosting 60hz not because your kick needs it, but because your untreated inaccurate room is sucking that freq into a black hole and lying to you in many other ways as well.

iow, the fact that most people have bad rooms and bad systems is precisely *why* you can't get away with it.


gregoire
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ubk
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[Bluemoa]

Originally Posted by u b k

for the same reason you mix with monitors that most listeners will never have: you need to know that what you're hearing resembles reality in some predictable fashion, so your mix will translate to systems other than the one you have in your room.

that means you need to know the truth, or something akin to it; otherwise, you could be boosting 60hz not because your kick needs it, but because your untreated inaccurate room is sucking that freq into a black hole and lying to you in many other ways as well.

iow, the fact that most people have bad rooms and bad systems is precisely *why* you can't get away with it.


gregoire
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ubk
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A good practice is to familiarize yourself with your room before doing serious mixes, run reference mixes through it and get a sense for what frequencies are exaggerated and which are suppressed.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Bluemoa

Yea, i see what u are saying, my main concern is to be able to hear those low frequencies and be able to do something about them. It would suck to do all the mixing and whatnot only to find out there was nasty low frequency resonates going on the whole time.

Spot on and that is what bass traps will do, smooth out the frequencies to make it possible to REALLY here what is going on.

Oh just so you can see, this is the same room after treatment. Still needs a little work but not bad I would say. I think this was around 4 to 6 bass traps.



Glenn

[Chucho]

that's an nice improvement.
what do you do to get your frequency charts?

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Chucho

that's an nice improvement.
what do you do to get your frequency charts?

Well in this case the customer sent it to me but check out Room EQ Wizard Home Page

Glenn

[Monsieur C]

Hi i have a similar question, i'm also planning to buy some new monitors in the same price range as the ADAM A7's and i have an untreated room also. But i will be hiring someone to finish and mix my music. So i won't be doing a lot of mixing myself actually, just working with effects and editing the song after i recorded everything.

[JustinAiken]

Interesting thread.... this summer I'm planning on moving to A7s, and spending ~$500 on room treatment (small rectangular bedroom)...

Will that be enough to give me a decent enough monitoring environment to hear mixes in?