Adding "air" to make your mixes sound more "open"

[wildpark]

for shure thats gearsluts at its best

thats why ones of my most viewed sites

thanks you all !

patrick

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Okay, that's good, thanks Bob. I've done my share of mixing AND mastering in my humble 15 years of doing it professionally, and I've added 10-12k to entire mixes often, both of my own, and others mixes when it's appropriate. I noticed someone said something about adding those frequency will sound "spitty" as a rule. Maybe, only if the mix is like that originally, but even then I know the mastering engineer can often help to rectify that problem (tape being one IMO). I view global EQ, with a quality analog EQ, as being a good idea, especially because of lower phase shift..

Who said that?

I certainly didn't....

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Adding any amount of 10k or 12k is asking for trouble on stereo material, unless the song needs a boost in that area. A lot of times, just adding 12k will make everything sound spitty and harsh....

I clearly state that it's generally a bad idea, unless the song needs a boost in that area. Just randomly adding 12k thinking it's adding air is counterproductive.... The air range is fundamentally much higher in the frequency range.

Just for clarification:

If the song doesn't need additional 12k added... and you boost it to "add air" to your mix... it will sound spitty and/ or harsh... This is pretty simple. It's like boosting 300 hz because you want more sub in your song. It's the wrong region, and you are bringing up too much other stuff in the process.

The reality is that 12K is not the "air" range... This term is more often used to describe much higher up in the frequency range. Anyone who has ever used a GML 8200 and boosted 26k or an Avedis E27 and boosted 28k know EXACTLY what air is... those who don't, well.... they don't.

Have fun folks, I'm out of this thread. Seems like people are mish-mashing the comments of others and asking antagonistic, non-rhetorical questions to form arguments with third partes... I don't really have time for the silliness.

[1979]

I am not refering to the 16k boost type of air, but that "openess" and space in a recording that great engineers seem to achieve. Like on "kind of Blue" or Jeff Buckley's "Grace".

As an earlier post by Jim Williams mentioned You need to "capture" air. I totally agree. Mic placement and AD conversion is so key in this respect. I am firm believer in that the space around the instrument needs to be adressed when micing something. Cheap converters (like digidesign) can never seem to adequately capture or convey this "aroundness" to the sound. As soon as I got to record with good coverters or 2" ( even if I did mix those projects ITB) I felt like my tracks already had this great openess to them. From that point on I had to be careful or it was all down hill.

To me openess or air comes at the expense of what we all call Glue. Beware the glue offered by 2buss Comps, as I find they can rob air from the mix. Great mixers can preserve the air in a recording and at the same time add the glue required to maked it sound finished-I totally wish I could pull this off at will.

[firby]

Dont go knocking my hobbies!

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

When you heard the instruments in the recording room and the voice before it was recorded, they had plenty of natural air. Just like an acoustic group, there is lot's of natural air from these sources.

The problem is you didn't capture it.

No suprise, considering the plethera of color boxes, preamps, transformers, etc. now in style used to record with.

I consider most of them low pass filters. They suck out the natural air. Then you are left with trying to "recover" it even though it's now gone.

So instead of having natural air, you try to recreate it electronically.

That will never work as well as having not lost it in the first place. A simulation is never as satisfing as the real thing.

Then again, some do like their plastic blow up dolls....

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Rockman

I figure that since my room sounds horrible, the best I could do is to make it as dead as possible, and then try to simulate a bit of ambience with my Lexicon 300.

well, you're now experiencing the end results of that thinking. a lex 300 + a dry lifeless recording = a wet lifeless recording. deadening a horrible room gives you a dead horrible room. the reality is inescapable here.

truly, you must heed my words or forever bang your head against the wall: lose the foam. use realtraps, gik traps, or your own diy 705-wrapped panels to make your condo sound *good*, because it can be done and it's easier than you think. if your vocals, acoustic and electric guitar have air, space, and shimmer, so will your mixes. if your vocals, acoustic and electric guitar are boxy limp affairs, your mixes will be too.

mixing is the meal, but tracking is the ingredients. just try making a sublime chocolate mousse using hershey's chocolate. can't be done.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[Bob Olhsson]

The effect you guys are talking about is the bleed between the microphones on live tracks recorded in the same room. I'm also not talking about MIDI, only the real deal.

[AmplitudeAudio]

Check out har-bal

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Sometimes you need to really see what's going on in your top end--if you can isolate just the 12K and above and give it a listen. Sweep around--generally you should hear the fizz of the snare, the air of the guitars, the sizzle of the high hats and cymbals. You should hear upper, upper harmonics of the voice and the breathiness. Depending on the genre you might hear some of the extreme top harmonics of the bass attack and maybe a bit of beater click from the kick drum.

i almost never hear anything over 7k in the GTRs of mixes i like... there'll be some kick/snare harmonics, some OHs, vocals, and some reverb swirl up there... almost nothing else.

Find some of the mixes you admire for this quality and isolate the top end--see what's going on up there without the rest of the frequencies getting in the way. You'll be surprised sometimes how little of something can be up there (guitars) but in the full mix it sounds clear as a bell.

its all about using HP/LP filters and focusing that point frequency in the mids, then getting rid of all the stuff you dont need.

sculpture is a good analogy.

don't be afraid to boost above a LP or below a HP filter with a money EQ... i love doing this particular trick on neve modules.. playing the top band against the LP on a 3114.. bottom band vs the HP.. etc..