Do mics need a burn-in time? different with age?

[bloodsweatfire]

Sorry if this seems too basic for this place.
Does anything happen to a diaphragm (or any other components) that improves or degrades a microphones sound with age?
Do mics in general sound any better (or different) as time passes?

Thank you
blood

[djui5]

I'm not sure scientifically why...but mic's do loose some top end over the years.

There's the ovbious degradation of the circuitry inside, which happens to all gear...but I'm not sure if something happens to the diaphram or not....

[studiomusic]

Ask the pro...

Klaus Heyne

[bloodsweatfire]

Originally posted by studiomusic
Ask the pro...

Klaus Heyne

Thank you.

Unfortunately I was railed so hard the first time I posted on PSW that I have chosen to say fuuck Apparently my novice question insulted a few 'regulars'.
So...I have never been hip enough, smart enough or rich enough to belong to the groovy gear club.

It was not at that mic forum so perhaps it is a different deal?
I happen to own and use Rode mics, some Studio Projects, AKG, Sony and a few other 'non approved' models. Just happens to be where I am at the moment.

Perhaps someone here can contribute to this thread.

blood

[djui5]

Originally posted by bloodsweatfire
Thank you.

Unfortunately I was railed so hard the first time I posted on PSW that I have chosen to say fuuck Apparently my novice question insulted a few 'regulars'.

So you come here....

brace yourself....

[bloodsweatfire]

Originally posted by djui5
So you come here....

brace yourself....

Yes, I suppose if I insult someone's intelect here with my questions then I will hear about it. But in all honesty I have been reading this forum long enough to know it is generally alot more open and down to earth. Everyone here has always been cool and I see alot of everything get discussed.

Alot of the same people from forum to forum but sometimes it's the place itself that lends to the attitude and approach of the partcipant.

I'm just here to learn and fortunately for me I have no reputation to uphold. Maybe someone else can learn from my gaps as well.

[natpub]

Klaus' forum is significantly different from most the other's there. However, Klaus does not permit second-hand opinions or fantasy science. He does totally welcome genuine questions of any level, from what I can see.

I think your question is really a good one, and would suggest you cross post it there. There are 4 or 5 other brilliant mic people there besides Klaus, and they answer questions so thoroughly that one tends to get information overload--it truly will one day be an amazing repository of mic knowlege.

I hope you post this question there.

[Meriphew]

Bloodsweatfire - The vibe at Klaus's forum (and @ REP in general) is quite a bit different than the old PSW forums. Just be sure to read Klaus's rules before you post. I think you'll find that just about everyone here at G.S. is very friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable.

seing as how headphones often have a burn in period, i would not be surprised if there was some sort of similarsituation with some mics...

[djui5]

Originally posted by bloodsweatfire
Yes, I suppose if I insult someone's intelect here with my questions then I will hear about it. But in all honesty I have been reading this forum long enough to know it is generally alot more open and down to earth. Everyone here has always been cool and I see alot of everything get discussed.

I know...I was kidding...this is a great place unless you ask about DI's......haha...again..kidding.


You'd think something like this would be welcomed on Klaus's forum as I'd imagine a lot of manufacturer's think about this...and Klaus makes a living restoring/customizing mic's correct? Ironic isn't it?

[Peter Oxford]

Dear Mr. Bloodsweatfire,

First of all I would like to express to you a deeply genuine sense of regret that on occasions you have asked simple questions on the PSW site, only to be barbecued so badly that you actually prefer not to post there at all. I do not believe the moderators or the majority of users there would wish this to happen at all and would regret this as much as I do.

Although this problem is clearly not unique to PSW, I agree, it is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed, (some are trying to) and I sincerely hope that the contributors, moderators and administrators of that site, personally read this thread. I hope we can all learn an important lesson from it and that soon you will feel comfortable to post there if you have a question.

Please accept my sincere personal apology for the fact that this has occurred, and I hope I can see you there sometime. It’s a really great site, and hopefully, it can improve further if we all learn important lessons.

I read yesterday a report on a 'brainstorming session' within a local company held to resolve a long standing and hugely expensive problem that a large number of highly qualified experts had not been able to resolve.

Because this particular company have a policy of creating a non judgemental atmosphere, allowing everyone to express their views and still be treated with proper respect (however crazy their ideas might seem, this is why it’s called ‘brainstorming' a problem). Eventually, the least qualified person present mentioned a seemingly insignificant irregularity that he had observed. This actually proved to be the key that solved the entire problem altogether. Had they allowed the little guy a proper voice at an earlier stage, they could have saved a great many millions of pounds they have already wasted of shareholders money. As it is, letting the ‘ordinary Joe’ have his say, will save them many millions this year alone.

So much for all the expert consultants! I fully respect their experience, qualifications and expertise, but sometimes because of their necessarily narrow view, they often cannot provide the actual solution to a particularly vexing wider problem. Their seemingly intellectual prowess (which is not always authentic) can also be deeply intimidating. In my home City, we have recently funded a chair of professorship sat on by one of the U.K. most prominant scientist's. His brief is to make difficult and complex scientific subjects, more readily understandble to the broader population. Many world leading authorities on a wide variety of subjects are taking an important lead from this. As am I. Truly great experts can normally make very difficult and complex subjects, reasonably understandable.

On PSW. Mr Heynes site is clearly uniquely moderated and produces fantastically information rich threads as a result. It is very special indeed and that is made clear before posting. I would rigorously defend this indeed, and Mr. Heynes, for whom personally, I have the very highest regard.

Mr.Gerst however, would be able to answer any question on microphones would you have. He is always very modest about himself, but is actually very knowledgeable indeed, extremely experienced, quite a genius, and a really great guy to boot!

To come to your question I believe certain types of mic (back electrets in particular) can lose charge overtime and thus may have a more limited lifespan of use. I think the actual level of SPL’s mics are subjected to can make a significant difference to the ‘loosening effect’ on the capsule as can incidence's of impact and heavy vibration. The humidity and condensation they are subjected to. The vocal moisture they can sometimes be subjected to, and the overall care taken with them, including their storage can all affect their quality and sound with time.

I sure a great many others with far more expertise than I, will be able to tell you very much more indeed. Perhaps even Mr. Heynes, Mr. Gerst or one of the many other experts might get to read this, and pop in to talk. It would be really great.

Anyway, I hope you get all the answers you are seeking.

It’s what forums are really for!

Best Wishes Peter

[bloodsweatfire]

Thank you for the replies Meriphew and natpub!
And Peter, that was a very thoughtful, respectful and courteous response. I very much appreciate that, thank you!

In all honesty I don,t feel burned from PSW, I simply walked away momentarily feeling stupid.
I see some of the same users on other forums and they generally seem to ride the the same horse.

I understand the level of tolerance it requires to answer certain questions which others find rudimentary, and in all honesty I can't really define where those start and stop in Pro Audio.

Since I am not sure 'how much' or 'how deep' I can know on a subject before being allowed to post about it, I respectfully refrain from posting. I do not want to insult anyone.
However, my questions usually go beyond any beginner forum, so...

Klaus's forum,
I checked it out last night and ended up reading much.
His rules are spot-on! I wish more places could admin that kind of architecture.
As for Harvey Gerst whom you mentioned, I have immense respect for him and have gained much personal knowledge based on his efforts and postings.
Not too mention one of the few AE's (about on the forums)with genuine knowledge depth and sincerity. I have often praised his humble approach publicly.

Thanks again, perhaps I can find my way to PSW as a member and not only as an observer. That would be cool.

[joeq]

some manufacturers pre-age their metal diaphragms so that the mic will be relatively stable when it leaves the factory. I guess that's like a burn-in, but its done before you get the mic.

some older mics used pvc diaphragms which are known to get brittle with age.

tubes and capacitors can wear out and change the sound, rubber from the windscreen can dry out and crumble and get in there and mess things up.

and of course, there's always hard knocks. Your friend drops the mic and doesn't tell you- well even if he tells you- it still got dropped. Dust and moisture in the air, etc etc

These things are not always bad.

When I was 12, I got my first watch- a cheap Timex. It lost about 15 minutes a day. I absent-mindedly wore it into the shower- I was horrified, but after that incident it only lost about 1 minute a day.

[Jim Williams]

Yep, yes and affirmative! Polarized condensors need a 50 to 100 hour break in period. This excersizes the diaphram and the signal capacitors. If the caps are film, the break in softens up the strident 8 k hz zone. Some capsules break in more than others, depending on the construction. Consider the mic like a new pair of shoes. If you just wear them, they don't break in, but if you walk in them they will break in over a couple of days.

I can't tell you how many times a customer has called to ask, "did my mic start sounding better over time or am I just hearing things".

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[not_so_new]

Thanks Jim!!

So does this explain why my NTK's got better over time?? They were really harsh at first but they seem much smoother now after a few years. Still don't like them for vox but it has mellowed down and fits perfect for drum room mic's. Is there any formula about how much SPL and how long it takes for the "magic" to take place or is it different with every mic??

[bloodsweatfire]

Jim, Thank you!
You are awesome!
I had my own suspicions about my NTK. I have had it now for 4 years and I swear it has gotten richer, honest to goodness. I have never changed the tube for what it's worth.

Thanks again.

[joeq]

Hmmm - I think I will offer a break-in service for new mics.

Here's how it works:
the client buys a new mic and gives it to me for 5 years. I record lots of loud drums, spitty vocalists and blaring trumpets with it until all the harshness is gone. After the 5 years is up I send the mic back to the customer.

Now if I can just figure out a fair price to charge the customer for this service...