Warner Surrenders to the Inevitable

[John Moran]

from the BBC:

Warner agrees to use MP3 format

Warner Music Group is making its music available for download from Amazon in MP3 format without copy protection. Warner had been holding out against using the format because MP3 tracks are easier to share between users and may be freely burned onto CDs.
Amazon's download store is a major competitor to Apple's iTunes, which uses Digital Rights Management (DRM) to restrict the use of some of its tracks.
Warner's artists includes Led Zeppelin, Aretha Franklin and Sean Paul.
Sony BMG is now the only major recording group not signed up with Amazon.
"By removing a barrier to the sale and enjoyment of audio downloads, we bring an energy-sapping debate to a close," Warner Music chief executive Edgar Bronfman said in an e-mail to Warner employees.
Amazon launched its download store in September after reaching agreements to sell unprotected tracks from Universal Music Group and EMI.

[Depswa1]

I love it when bullies submit in defeat!!

[bunnerabb]

I love it when bullies submit in defeat!!

Yeah!

Like that time when all those people looted that store and their owner was like "Yo, I had to pay money for that shit" and they were like "So? **** you! We want it we're gonna grab what we can get cause you can't stop us, so **** you, greedy swine!"

And he just CAVED!

hi 5!

[Depswa1]

If the store owner hired good people(Artists) and sold good product(Music that stands the test of time) to the people and cared for the employees(Artists) that invented and made the product and trusted the companie with there product and spent less time up there own asses they probably would have enough backup to keep safe and the biz running without looters taking everything they want. Obviously no one is sympathetic to a narcissist crook that thinks he's ceasar . Many artists music and lives have been thrown away thoughtlessly by the record companies without looking back! or remorse!
The Music should belong to the musician and never made to feel he has to give up the majority to appease a man making money off of his work! like it has been for sooo long.tutt

[A27Hull]

+1

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Yeah!

Like that time when all those people looted that store and their owner was like "Yo, I had to pay money for that shit" and they were like "So? **** you! We want it we're gonna grab what we can get cause you can't stop us, so **** you, greedy swine!"

And he just CAVED!

hi 5!

[bunnerabb]

If the store owner hired good people(Artists) and sold good product(Music that stands the test of time) to the people and cared for the employees(Artists) that invented and made the product and trusted the companie with there product and spent less time up there own asses they probably would have enough backup to keep safe and the biz running without looters taking everything they want.

1): If it's such a shitty product, why steal it?

1a): Tell that shit to McDonald's. they make crap. Try boosting it.

Theft is theft.

Ya wanna change the world?

Want a real revolution that'll bring actual, useful change?

Go loot the Federal Reserve, shut it down and set up a guillotine on Pennsylvania Ave.

WARNING:

You can't do any of that shit from your bedroom with a personal computer and you might get your ass shot off.

Revolution, my ass.

[junior]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

1): If it's such a shitty product, why steal it?

1a): Tell that shit to McDonald's. they make crap. Try boosting it.

Theft is theft.

I mainly agree... but, I think Depswa1 has a valid point too: record companies have contributed largely to the problem by pushing crappy content and charging a premium for it. Whether we like it or not, people are tired of paying good money for bad music and that makes it easier for some to justify stealing it.

I'm jus sayin...

BTW, I happen to like McDonalds fries!

[slick0]

What's all the noise about? They're still selling music, only allowing a more compatible format for the consumer, who is being locked down elsewhere in the industry. It's not like pirates raided the Warner ship and said 'Walk the plank, or release your mp3s!!'

[Depswa1]

I'm not disputing that it is theft because it is, i am just saying that there are multiple reasons for the major labels losing money and respect from the current society, I have seen the other side as an artist and know what i and many others have had to deal with, regardless of anyones views what is, is at the moment. I recently had a meeting with the V.P. of A&R Atlantic (Danny whimmer)and he believes that within a couple to five years (with the piggy backing of a new dvd technology)the record labels will be making 5 times the amount that they ever have and will make all that money they have lost and again have power over the artist's and what people listen to on the radio.
No need to be upset my friend because victory is said to be on the horizon!!

[joshuag]

sweet news as i'm an amazon stockholder

[T9c]

Well if Warner really cared about being ripped off then why didn't they choose iTunes instead? huh?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by junior

I mainly agree... but, I think Depswa1 has a valid point too: record companies have contributed largely to the problem by pushing crappy content and charging a premium for it. Whether we like it or not, people are tired of paying good money for bad music and that makes it easier for some to justify stealing it.

It's still not justifiable.

And on top of that, if the argument is "they are pushing crap on us" then are you saying that no one ever illegally downloads a Beatles song? Or Zep? Or any of the 1000's of artists that were putting out music (good or bad) before this new era of crappy music?

To me, the whole "they are putting out crappy music" is just a way to feel better about stealing something that most folks wouldn't have the balls or personality to do in a brick and mortar record store.

All of the arguments for stealing music, the big bad record company, the crapy music, the artists don't make any money anyway are all just cop outs and can be defeated in one simple reply.

If you don't like the music, the record company, the artist or the price JUST DON'T BUY IT OR LISTEN TO IT! Easy, problem solved.



Oh and I like McDonalds fries as well… guilty pleasure.

[mtstudios@charter]

Originally Posted by junior

I mainly agree... but, I think Depswa1 has a valid point too: record companies have contributed largely to the problem by pushing crappy content and charging a premium for it. Whether we like it or not, people are tired of paying good money for bad music and that makes it easier for some to justify stealing it.

It isn't the record companies crappy content, it is the artist. I am sure there are others that think they are more deserving of a record deal, but failure can happen to the talented also, and does. As far as paying too much, I have to agree with you.

Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities

[Depswa1]

(Just an opinion) I think maybe the record labels have signed alot of acts that they think will sell but for the wrong reasons unrepresentative of Originality ,innovation and real talent, (Like i said, just an opinion).
Good luck to them anyways everyone deserves to make a living.

[Kiwiburger]

Seems like y'all think everyone is guilty until proven innocent. There are plenty of honest people who just want to buy their favorite songs and play them on their mp3 player. Why should they be treated like criminals, or be forced to get their mp3s from criminals? It makes no sense at all. Sell them what they want, in the format they want it. And let them back the files up, for their own protection and enjoyment.

Copy protection is futile - utterly and completely futile. The bastards who want to steal music with zero consideration for the artists are going to steal, regardless. Ain't nothin' nobody can do 'bout it. Sue the blatent offenders occasionally just to remind the public that's it's very uncool.

It's about time the record companies realised there were *never* going to get any money from those thieving a$$h@les - and start looking after their honest customers who really matter.

[Orren]

The conversation in this thread seems to have focused on the issue of short-term piracy (mp3s = more piracy, iTMS DRM = less piracy); lets look at this a bit longer term.

The fact that Universal, WMG, etc. music is available in hi-res, cheaper versions at Amazon, but not the iTMS, to me signals that the majors are declaring war on iTMS. It's an open secret they're upset with Jobs for dictating terms to them. Majors think that they should be able to charge more, control the distribution more, and that iTMS's success is now their big enemy.

The majors are trying to give Amazon the edge for now, but ultimately, I'm sure they'll open their own stores, or combine forces for their own store/subscription service, so that they can simply eliminate the middle man completely, Apple, Amazon, or anyone else.

But here's the thing: what the majors have forgotten—if they were ever observant enough to realize it—is that the iTunes Music Store doesn't simply compete against other download sales outlets. It competes against free illegal downloads. And far more than bitrate or even price, iTMS's competitive advantage is the seamless and elegant integration of the iPod/iPhone/iTMS chain. Apple created this chain to sell hardware, of course, but the fact that this worked, and created a viable market where there had previously only been some non-viable sales options and illegal distribution, was a great thing.

So what I wonder, is if the majors succeed in what I think is their plan—to bring down, or at least diminish iTMS, what will be the real outcome? Will it work out the way the majors hope, and everyone just buys music online elsewhere than the iTMS, the majors retain/grow sales, and Jobs can't dictate terms?

Or in fact, when iPod/iPhone/iTunes users can't buy the music they want, the way they want it from iTMS, rather than buying it from another retailer, will those users simply choose piracy instead? Or will these other stores invent a UI that is elegant enough that nobody misses the iPod/iPhone/iTMS integration?

Only time will tell. But to me, the question is will the major labels be able to see that they need to leverage all of their options as best they can, or in their desperation and lack of insight will they simply create enemies where they feel they can fight effectively, without regard to the implications of their short-sightedness.

Orren

[Depswa1]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Seems like y'all think everyone is guilty until proven innocent. There are plenty of honest people who just want to buy their favorite songs and play them on their mp3 player. Why should they be treated like criminals, or be forced to get their mp3s from criminals? It makes no sense at all. Sell them what they want, in the format they want it. And let them back the files up, for their own protection and enjoyment.

Copy protection is futile - utterly and completely futile. The bastards who want to steal music with zero consideration for the artists are going to steal, regardless. Ain't nothin' nobody can do 'bout it. Sue the blatent offenders occasionally just to remind the public that's it's very uncool.

It's about time the record companies realised there were *never* going to get any money from those thieving a$$h@les - and start looking after their honest customers who really matter.

True Words!!

[Kenny Gioia]

This has nothing to do with crappy music, bad companies or any of that other B.S.

People had the ability to steal and they did. Simple.

If they could have stolen music from Sister Theresa, they still would have.

Corporate greed is not hard to find.

Walmart's business practices are 100X worse than any record label. Go rush that store.

[junior]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

It's still not justifiable.

I'm not advocating it - just trying to understand why people do it.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

And on top of that, if the argument is "they are pushing crap on us" then are you saying that no one ever illegally downloads a Beatles song? Or Zep? Or any of the 1000's of artists that were putting out music (good or bad) before this new era of crappy music?

No. But, if someone is already downloading Britney & Soulja Boy, do you think they're going to draw the line at downloading some Beatles & Zep?

Originally Posted by not_so_new

To me, the whole "they are putting out crappy music" is just a way to feel better about stealing something that most folks wouldn't have the balls or personality to do in a brick and mortar record store.

To say it's not a factor would be to miss the point entirely.

People usually don't do things arbitrarily - we're motivated by whatever reasons. Apparently, a lot of people are motivated to steal music. I think Depswa1 was just saying that music companies (like Warner) have largely contributed to the problem by devaluing their product and disenfranchising consumers. I think there's some truth to that.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

All of the arguments for stealing music, the big bad record company, the crapy music, the artists don't make any money anyway are all just cop outs and can be defeated in one simple reply. If you don't like the music, the record company, the artist or the price JUST DON'T BUY IT OR LISTEN TO IT! Easy, problem solved.

Easy? Problem solved? C'mon, that's like saying "if you don't like eating crap sandwiches, starve."

[junior]

Originally Posted by mtstudi@pacbell

It isn't the record companies crappy content, it is the artist.

But, isn't it the record company who signs the "artist" to a contract?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by mtstudi@pacbell

It isn't the record companies crappy content, it is the artist.

Originally Posted by junior

But, isn't it the record company who signs the "artist" to a contract?

This has got to be the most circular thing I've read in quite a bit.

"Don't blame us (the artist) for sucking. It's what the label wants."

What about the fans? Don't they drive what the label puts out? Don't the labels do market research and sign artists accordingly?

Shouldn't the labels blame the fans for making them put out crappy music?

[junior]

Originally Posted by Produceher

This has got to be the most circular thing I've read in quite a bit.

"Don't blame us (the artist) for sucking. It's what the label wants."

What about the fans? Don't they drive what the label puts out? Don't the labels do market research and sign artists accordingly?

Shouldn't the labels blame the fans for making them put out crappy music?

You want to blame music fans for the dearth of quality music in the marketplace? Seriously?

[Depswa1]

HAHAHA! the things people say!! I guess it really goes to show that everyone is different with different ideas...so i geuss we should get ready for a shittier president than the one we have in "08"?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by junior

You want to blame music fans for the dearth of quality music in the marketplace? Seriously?

Absolutely. Not one doubt in my mind.

Everyone knows where to get music they like. If you like progressive jazz, you'll find it.

All great music exists if you really look. Most people are not looking or just don't care.

They like their music like their brainless tv shows.

Why is TV awful? Because most people like it that way.

Why has the newspapers and tv news decided that Britney Spears sister being pregnant is news?

Because it sells. They're just feeding us what we want to eat.

If race car driving wasn't soo dangerous, it would all be crashes.

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by junior

You want to blame music fans for the dearth of quality music in the marketplace? Seriously?

Well........From what I've seen, most kids seem to find the notion of paying for music rather absurd.

[Jaybird]

Wait this issue is two fold because on the same day Apple I-tunes and Fox started online movie rental agreement. Its not as much about piracy as much as it its about serving the consumer with DRM free music and downloading music and movies. Its something I think is Win/Win.

One thing I look forward to is a music product that does not have a plastic and paper delivery device like a CD case. I loved Records but its a bygone era.

Long live 356bit rate music.

This could be the end of the music industry slump as the business model adapts to consumer demand.

[bunnerabb]

nothing

that

can

be

losslessly

reproduced

for

free

is

a

product.

[Empire Prod]

I don't think we will see anything close to a bright future stemming from the major labels any time soon. The fact that they have started taking a big % of live performance and merchandising monies from artists (which has always been the bread & butter of touring artist) is a testament that longevity is not even a consideration. Most signed artists will no longer be able to afford to tour.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

nothing

that

can

be

losslessly

reproduced

for

free

is

a

product.

Nice try Bunner!!!

[B.Santillan]

Originally Posted by junior

Easy? Problem solved? C'mon, that's like saying "if you don't like eating crap sandwiches, starve."

that's not an apples to apples or even an apples to oranges or apples to any fruit comparison.

you're comparing a basic necessity (eating) with a novelty (art/entertainment).