Pre's you have used with the RMS Folcrom

[Jed]

Wondering what pre's you all who have Folcroms have used with it, and your thoughts on how different pre's have performed on different styles of mixes.

Especially curious if anyone can report on mixing through a Great River as I'm looking at the MP-2NV but don't have the chance to try one out. Currently use the SLAM, am getting sound I'm happy with, am wondering if the Great River would be complementary tonally, providing a different enough color to warrant investigating. Unfortunately again I don't have a chance to audition it, so I'm basing my information on the basis of Great River's reputation and the fact that the MP was designed off of a Neve design; a sound I am missing and wanting to have for tracking as well as to experiment with on mixdown post Folcrom. Am also intrigued by the idea of patching in the ME-2NV as an EQ on the bus, though I think I did get the impression from one rather thourough review that the reviewer preferred the EQ for tracking over 2bus. Then again I guess you could just patch the insert point and put whatever you want in there.

Anyway, thanks!

[brownmouse]

i've used the great river mp-2nv, phoenix drs-2, and fmr rnp with the folcrom. it was song dependant and very much personal taste oriented. the great river had the most solid bottom end and seemed a bit 'girthier', and the phoenix seemed a tad more soft on the bottom and much more open up top, the fmr was pretty clean and tight but didn't seem as large as the other 2. i thought both the phoenix and great river were great depending on the 'flavor' desired. ymmv.
hope that helped,
joshua

[Jed]

helpful and interesting..

Curious, what kind of music are you mixing? And what are you feeding your Folcrom from?

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by Jed
helpful and interesting..

Curious, what kind of music are you mixing? And what are you feeding your Folcrom from?

well, lately its been more rock and some acoustic oriented music. i was using digital performer> lucid 8824> folcrom> preamp> 2 buss compressor> cranesong hedd> back to a stereo track in digital performer. i say "was" because i just picked up a yamaha pm-2000 and will probably switch to using that instead.
joshua

[NathanEldred]

I found most of the highly colored preamps, in particular my API's to sound flat out bad in this specific application. Where a preamp does well in tracking, IMO it does not do very well stamping its sonic character over the whole thing (or doing double duty if you track with that preamp). It makes the mix sound highly colored with what I would describe as an 'upside down smiley face'.

The "Neve" recreations were not as bad in general as the API (The 'Neve' camp had a better more extended low and high, and a more pleasant midrange), but still made things, ironically and suprising to me, sound smaller than a piece of gear that was somewhat cleaner.

And when I say cleaner, I don't mean a straight wire with gain kind of preamp. There are pieces like the Crane Song Flamingo specifically in Iron mode (as a real world example...I will not make specific recommendations on the forums as I've stated in the past, but out of the 25 or so I've tried there were about 5 that really stuck out as being "best" to my ears) that have that very nice 'hi-fi' sound but with a lot of attitude. And it really depends on how much coloration there are on your individual tracks. I love lots of color, and track and mix with it, so putting a unique frequency curve (i.e. no where near 'flat') with mostly noticable distortion on my mix in addition to already highly colorful individual tracks isn't a good idea for my purposes.

[once a roadie]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I found most of the highly colored preamps, in particular my API's to sound flat out bad in this specific application. Where a preamp does well in tracking, IMO it does not do very well stamping its sonic character over the whole thing (or doing double duty if you track with that preamp). It makes the mix sound highly colored with what I would describe as an 'upside down smiley face'.

The "Neve" recreations were not as bad in general as the API (The 'Neve' camp had a better more extended low and high, and a more pleasant midrange), but still made things, ironically and suprising to me, sound smaller than a piece of gear that was somewhat cleaner.

And when I say cleaner, I don't mean a straight wire with gain kind of preamp. There are pieces like the Crane Song Flamingo specifically in Iron mode (as a real world example...I will not make specific recommendations on the forums as I've stated in the past, but out of the 25 or so I've tried there were about 5 that really stuck out as being "best" to my ears) that have that very nice 'hi-fi' sound but with a lot of attitude. And it really depends on how much coloration there are on your individual tracks. I love lots of color, and track and mix with it, so putting a unique frequency curve (i.e. no where near 'flat') with mostly noticable distortion on my mix in addition to already highly colorful individual tracks isn't a good idea for my purposes.

A good amount of time has gone by...what are your favorite 5 pres for the folcrom? I'm still looking for something clean, dimensional and punchy...John Hardy, AEA RPQ, safesound, true, etc... can juggernaut do clean?

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by grockvt

A good amount of time has gone by...what are your favorite 5 pres for the folcrom? I'm still looking for something clean, dimensional and punchy...John Hardy, AEA RPQ, safesound, true, etc... can juggernaut do clean?

Yes, Juggernaut can do 'transformer' clean with the right setting (i.e. full range, not a lot of obvious color but still nice lows and airy highs, but not as 'straight wire' as the really fast transformerless designs like Buzz MA2.2, GML, or Grace).

Set to nickel input, nickel output, no +THD, and impedance higher than 4000 ohms.

If you want growly mids and more harmonic distortion, it's the opposite - lower impedance, iron input, iron output, +THD engaged. Or you could do any increment in between.

[janek 68]

I use TG-2 or Great River,Tg-2 is more coloured and brighter sounding.It is more saturated as well.It reminds me some 70`s records.I often pass single tracks through TG-2 for for this speciphic tape-like (?) mood.My favourite chain is TG-2 than Zener limiter after Folcrom but GreatRiver has its advantage because is cleaner and bigger sounding.What are your experiences with transformerless preamps after Folcrom? what about AEA pre for ribbons?

[jaffa]

Nathan,

This is interesting. If you think the API is 'too coloured' for summing application used with Folcrom, what do you think about the 8200/7800 combination which after all uses the 2520 Op-Amp and is specifically advertized for summing purposes. Do you think the 8 channels of the 8200 will make a difference? Also, if you've recorded using 'coloured' pres but are then mixing through an API or Neve desk, what's the difference? Surely you're doubling the colouring as it were?

Steve

[Jules]

A lot.

Settled on Chandler tg1 because of it's drive functionality and sound.

Some folks (Mike Shipley being one of them) swap around what they use on a per song basis.

How do you like them apples?

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by jaffa

Nathan,

This is interesting. If you think the API is 'too coloured' for summing application used with Folcrom, what do you think about the 8200/7800 combination which after all uses the 2520 Op-Amp and is specifically advertized for summing purposes. Do you think the 8 channels of the 8200 will make a difference? Also, if you've recorded using 'coloured' pres but are then mixing through an API or Neve desk, what's the difference? Surely you're doubling the colouring as it were?

Steve

I don't think the API preamp is "too colored" in general, again it COMPLETELY depends on the way you work. I just noticed that this was a 5 year old post resurrected.

To be very specific, 5 years on, I personally find the API too 'hard' and not full enough in the bass frequencies as compared to the way my individual tracks are recorded and mixed (and I know there are other people who do like the API on the Folcrom, I'm not criticizing anyones choice, just saying what I personally prefer). Some guys would love an API console, some a old Neve 80, some would prefer something completely different. I believe the 8200 is intended to be more neutral in sound, as compared to the preamps, but I could be completely wrong and best to talk to someone who has compared a 512c on a Folcrom, to an 8200 system.

We were going to do a mini console based on the nickel inputs/nickel output sound of the Juggernaut (the idea has been put on hold until the economy starts to recover). The nickel inputs are much fuller than an API, they get soft when pushed hard, when not pushed they are 'transformer' clean like a Buzz or Hardy. But this is the ultimate, to my ears, in terms of an overall console sound.

Any professional engineer can get a good recording with any of this great gear, but just like a chef, or artist who paints or sculpts, we (and they) all have preferences for their tools and the way they use those tools.

[PlugHead]

In my short experience with the Folcrom (about 2 months now), I've been preferring this order:

Buzz MA2.2 (most often thru the Sowters)
Portico 5012
Hardy M1's
Ward Beck M470's

I don't have a lot of 'coloured' pre's, but don't prefer my API's or RCA's for makeup gain - they stomp on it too much IMO. If I want extra colour, I'll use comps/EQ's to taste before upping the gain on the pre's.

Hope this helps,

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by janek 68

I use TG-2 or Great River,Tg-2 is more coloured and brighter sounding.It is more saturated as well.It reminds me some 70`s records.I often pass single tracks through TG-2 for for this speciphic tape-like (?) mood.My favourite chain is TG-2 than Zener limiter after Folcrom but GreatRiver has its advantage because is cleaner and bigger sounding.What are your experiences with transformerless preamps after Folcrom? what about AEA pre for ribbons?

I couldn't agree more. The TG-2 is just a sound I want on most things.

[jaffa]

[QUOTE=NathanEldred;4645607]I don't think the API preamp is "too colored" in general, again it COMPLETELY depends on the way you work. I just noticed that this was a 5 year old post resurrected.

Couldn't agree more Nathan, each to his own! On the 8200, I believe it has to be used in conjunction with the 7800 which is where the opamp comes in. The fascination for me with all this is the psychology. Think of the number of records that have been recorded and mixed on an API or Neve desk, so the process from beginning to end, each recorded and mixed track has been shaped by the 'sound' of the console. Given a choice I bet there are hundreds on here that would love the opportunity to record and mix all their projects on an API or Neve and yet there'd be a percentage of those people who would think twice about using the 512c or 1073 across the outputs of a passive summing box - because the pres themselves are perceived as too coloured. Isn't the result going to be very similar? What's the difference between using the 512c across the mix to using an API console across every individual track? So long as you mix with the pre strapped across the summing output and so take into consideration the effect it's having you should get great and characterful results.

Steve

[lakeshorephatty]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I couldn't agree more. The TG-2 is just a sound I want on most things.

Yepum. I only have several of the two pre types from chandler (TG and Germ). Both are great for make up gain. The TG channels are great if you want to apply some buss EQ. The germs can be really great with a high gain setting. Very high fi almost adding a bit on top that is smooth but also, tubey in character.

Russell

[buzzjoe]

Don't use a Folcrom but a similar passive summing device. I like how the Forsell SMP-2 enhances the mix (in a very subtle way). Btw. an excellent pre for almost everything :-)

[once a roadie]

OK - just wanted to chime back in...the JCF LEVR (w/xformers) is now parked on the folcrom and things are VERY clear and detailed. I am really liking this new set-up!!!! Thanks to Adam at Mercenary for recommending this piece!

[prob]

I have been using the Folcrom with either a pair of original isa 110's, or a pendulum mdp-1. Each one works best in certain cases; the type of material, what the tracks have been recorded with, etc. Both sound great. Either way, including this step in my mixing process adds a nice dimension that I would miss it if I didn't do it.

Patrick

[Kenny M]

I've used Neve 1272, Chandler Tg2 and Germ, BA Api 312 and Shadow Hills Mono Gamma. I own all these so I have no ownership preferences. While there are definitely differences between them all, my favorite is always the one that I mixed through. I've very rarely ever mixed through one pair and then liked the mix better through another pair after the fact and this also includes mixes through the ever famous ITB pre

In general I usually prefer the Neve's.

[daveybouy]

Anyone used the Folcrom woth make-up gain through A-designs Pacifica? I note some think the better pres for Folcrom are the transformerless ones..

[daveybouy]

Anyone used the Folcrom woth make-up gain through A-designs Pacifica? I note some think the better pres for Folcrom are the transformerless ones..

[stringbean01]

curious about the pacifica as well!

[InstituteOfNoise]

I use the Pacifica with my Folcrom for the past year. I usually keep the gain set about 3.5-4 on the dials. Don't have anything to really personally to compare that to at this time. Works fine for what I do.

[T.Johannsson]

Originally Posted by Jed

Wondering what pre's you all who have Folcroms have used with it, and your thoughts on how different pre's have performed on different styles of mixes.

Especially curious if anyone can report on mixing through a Great River as I'm looking at the MP-2NV but don't have the chance to try one out. Currently use the SLAM, am getting sound I'm happy with, am wondering if the Great River would be complementary tonally, providing a different enough color to warrant investigating. Unfortunately again I don't have a chance to audition it, so I'm basing my information on the basis of Great River's reputation and the fact that the MP was designed off of a Neve design; a sound I am missing and wanting to have for tracking as well as to experiment with on mixdown post Folcrom. Am also intrigued by the idea of patching in the ME-2NV as an EQ on the bus, though I think I did get the impression from one rather thourough review that the reviewer preferred the EQ for tracking over 2bus. Then again I guess you could just patch the insert point and put whatever you want in there.

Anyway, thanks!

I dont have RMS Folcrom but I build my own passive summing box. And I have few pres to run it through. A-design Pacifica. a lot of air, high freq details and punch in the mid end and smooth low end. Good for rock. SSL alpha pre tight clean. Good for everything but got no mojo. TL audio PA 1 very good for old flavor. dirty low end but for some stuff very undefined low end. a lot of mojo great for Motown feel or some acoustic lofi..

but having a summing mixer turned me in to having a console. I bought a soundcraft Delta. Like it a lot. But I mix hybrid. I use to mix in a studio that had an Neve, SSL and ITB ICON for ITB. But Im happy with my delta. Summing box did a lot for me. But not on its own sound wise. having some comp, EQ and FX whas the deal breaker. Summing box only made the work flow better/easier.