Digidesign price increase on HD Exchanges.

[severe]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, but I've just received this news via email from a local dealer.

So, heads-up. If you've planned on an exchange anytime soon, like myself, you better kick it into gear.

"Digidesign has announced a dramatic price increase on all Pro Tools HD Exchanges.
On January 1, 2008, prices on Pro Tools HD Exchanges will increase by up to 50%."

[DRC]

Originally Posted by severe

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, but I've just received this news via email from a local dealer.

So, heads-up. If you've planned on an exchange anytime soon, like myself, you better kick it into gear.

"Digidesign has announced a dramatic price increase on all Pro Tools HD Exchanges.
On January 1, 2008, prices on Pro Tools HD Exchanges will increase by up to 50%."

They pulled that sh*t a year or so ago. And then after a few months brought the trade value back to what it was.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by DRC

They pulled that sh*t a year or so ago. And then after a few months brought the trade value back to what it was.

really?



bastards.

[n8tron]

perfect way for that dealer and digidesign to try and scare people into buying soon so the companies can make their end of year sales goals.

[EstateMatt]

I heard a rumor that the cards are actually only worth about 200 bucks in parts... anyone know if thats true???

[thedommer]

Originally Posted by EstateMatt

I heard a rumor that the cards are actually only worth about 200 bucks in parts... anyone know if thats true???

I heard the card is just a placebo.

[Steffmo]

That certainly could be true. does this mean if they ship you the parts for 200.00 you can design and build a card?

[zboy2854]

I do have to say, I'm a big fan of Pro Tools and use it every day, but some of the crap they're pulling lately makes me wonder if they're actively trying to go down the tubes. First, the fiasco of releasing the RTAS version of the Massenburg EQ without any discount or free upgrade for existing TDM owners, and now they're going to raise the prices on HD exchanges, when the going rate for HD systems has been steadily coming down the past couple years. Apparently no one bothered to tell Digi that this hardware is depreciating, not the opposite...

[Jim Kerr]

Originally Posted by EstateMatt

I heard a rumor that the cards are actually only worth about 200 bucks in parts... anyone know if thats true???

Dude, Thats gotta be true. I heard that in 2007 the prices of RAM memory dropped like 89% or something. These cards dont have hand wound trannys. Are there hard to get parts in HD cards?

Thats how its been though for years and years. Ipods are probably overstocked inventory harddrives with screens. Well they are basically harddrives..right?


Edit- Sorry for putting Ipod in the same sentence with PTHD but.....its....well its all good. We need large file formats on Ipods to become possible and trendy!!

[soupking]

This thread reminds me of the statement made by Albini in regards to tape vs. digi. His argument was that you'd be forced to roll with the tide and buy the next and the next medium based on one or a few company's sales performance in order to keep moving.

If you buy the ticket, you gotta take the ride. That is, unless you can invent a new one. God bless open source.

Of course, I live in L.A., a place where extortion is more common than oxygen. So I'm a bit jaded towards anything that's marketed these days.

[EBGB]

Does anyone think that digi is trying to get people to buy HD now because a whole new system is coming out soon?

Any rumors about when PTHD might be replaced?

[shanabit]

**Highest price point of any products life cycle is at two points:

1. When the product is introduced to recover all the R&D expense and
to capture the sales benefit created from the high demand

2. At the END of the products life cycle so as to maximize profit before the line is discontinued

In this case, Digi is trying to get as much out of HD to cover its R&D for the new line and the cost of bringing the new product to market.

My guess is the new line is right around the corner I forget how long HD has been out now. 2001-2002? Notice how many HD users are dumping their systems on EBay?

[orksnork]

i'd love a new system just so i can hop on a super discounted HD system afterwards...

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by orksnork

i'd love a new system just so i can hop on a super discounted HD system afterwards...

Dont get too excited, theyll probably say that the software is stopping at 7.4. So when all the new bells and whistles come out in the software, you wont be able to get them since youll be on the OLD system. Thats how DIGI operates. To be honest, I think the HD system should only cost $2500 for HD1 and maybe $1000 for the hardware box. HD2 at $3500 and so on. THis way EVERYONE would be on HD and you could scrap the LE line all together which is powerless crippleware
Planned obsolescencedfegad

[EBGB]

I bought Pro Tools III when Pro Tools 24/Mix came out (and traded in Audiomedia III)

I bought PT Mix when PTHD came out (and traded in PTIII)

I wonder if I'll continue the pattern (for good savings)...

I think they continue to support and have software revs for the "old" system for a bit... it doesn't stop on a dime IIRC

That said-- and this could probably be its own thread-- What are people's predictions for what will replace HD?
Can converters still be improved?
How will software be improved?
How will hardware be improved/changed?
Cards vs native?
Price?
etc.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by EBGB

That said-- and this could probably be its own thread-- What are people's predictions for what will replace HD?
Can converters still be improved?
How will software be improved?
How will hardware be improved/changed?
Cards vs native?
Price?
etc.

Well, that's just the thing. Where can Digi really go from here system-wise? The converters aren't an issue, especially if you're using Auroras, Apogees or Prisms with your HD system. The software is constantly being improved already with each successive upgrade release. And the current HD cards already allow us to mix and match between TDM and native processing, so no need for more powerful cards there.

I'm going to go out of a limb and actually say that I don't believe Digi has a new system coming out (of course now I'll probably end up with egg on my face ). I think they've transitioned into other aspects of their business, such as ICON/VENUE sales, software and VI's, and of course the existing HD and LE hardware lines. Which is not to say they won't come out with new products in those lines, but the hardware aspect of those lines is no longer a forefront issue, it's all about the software features now.

I actually tend to think that this price move has more to do with Digi attempting to cut off "flippers", i.e. guys who buy Mix Core cards and trade them in to get new HD systems to flip for cash, thereby competing with Digi's retail HD business. But I could be wrong...

[severe]

They seem to have just removed the .PDF on exchanges with, "For more information and to make your exchange, visit your local authorized Digidesign dealer."

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Jim Kerr

.....snip... We need large file formats on Ipods to become possible and trendy!!

very true.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

I think they've transitioned into other aspects of their business, such as ICON/VENUE sales, software and VI's, and of course the existing HD and LE hardware lines.

Yes, their main audio income seems to comefrom Venue and LE sales. Being a person who has put so much money into Digidesign that it's almost embarassing, I googled their financial situation again, and found this....

Summary of AVID TECHNOLOGY INC - Yahoo! Finance
"Of the total revenues increase of $6.2 million, approximately $3.4 million related to our acquisition of Sibelius in July 2006, and the remainder represented increased sales from our Digidesign Pro Tools LE systems and live-sound VENUE product line."

Summary of AVID TECHNOLOGY INC - Yahoo! Finance
"For the six-month period ended June 30, 2007, in addition to the revenues increase from Sibelius, we had increased revenues from our Digidesign products, primarily the VENUE live sound mixing"

AVID TECHNOLOGY INC - AVID Annual Report (10-K) ITEM 1. BUSINESS
"The Pro Tools product family accounted for approximately 15%, 18% and 24% of our
consolidated net revenues in 2006, 2005 and 2004, respectively."

In short, income from Pro Tools HD sales are decreasing, and the $ they get from the Digidesign segment are primarily from Venue and LE sales. They may need something new (or a dramatic price reduction) to boost their income from the non-native recording market - or possibly give it up entirely, which IMO they won't, since PTHD is still the industry standard in high end studios. If only 15% of AVIDs income is from the Pro Tools product 'family', they are probably basically from the LE part of that family. Maybe they increased the price of the HD upgrade because they know they'll get rid of their stock of current HD cards anyway (if they won't produce them anymore)?

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

In short, income from Pro Tools HD sales are decreasing, and the $ they get from the Digidesign segment are primarily from Venue and LE sales. They may need something new (or a dramatic price reduction) to boost their income from the non-native recording market - or possibly give it up entirely, which IMO they won't, since PTHD is still the industry standard in high end studios. If only 15% of AVIDs income is from the Pro Tools product 'family', they are probably basically from the LE part of that family. Maybe they increased the price of the HD upgrade because they know they'll get rid of their stock of current HD cards anyway (if they won't produce them anymore)?

. . . . and continues to fall with 2007 a projected 11%. HD now accounts for almost no turnover whatsoever (comperde top LE and other parts of the business.

Avid's share price has been a major dissapointment and every time it rises, the larger institutional fund managers just sell it off (see AVID: Technical Analysis for AVID TECH INC - Yahoo! Finance )

Avid got totally new management mid-December and I would expect major lay-offs and selling of some periferal assets. However, DigiDesign has been a good source of profit for ther parent in the past, so if it does get sold (I can hear the Japanese unfolding their cheque books as I speak!) it would be to an existing player who has the market position to leverage the product range.

I just cannot see anything replacing PT except perhaps Soundscape or Logic. The coming months will tell if SSL is prepared to put some real marketing muscle behind it. Apple are really going to pull out all the stops on Logic.

Either way, Avid is up against Apple and they are 157 (Yes one hundred and fifty seven!) times larger and make a profit. Avid has never been able to make a profit in its 20 year history. Their video business has been murdered by Apple, Sony and Aldus and Apple are after their audio business as well.

If the new management do not sell DigiDesign to somebody like Yamaha or Sony, I cannot see how it is to survive.

[doorknocker]

Welcome to music production in 2008! Watching the stock market and making crystal-ball predictions seem to have taken up plenty of the msuician/producers time......

Did engineers in say 1976 really care for the stock market performance of say Neve or whoever owned the company?

Digidesign could come out with a killer new PT system tomorrow and people would still be all over them. So they had an exchange program that now is over, big deal. I can't imagine people hassling the local mall when the 'New Year Diet Coke' sale is being dropped in February or something.

[The Byre]

Back in 1976, you did not have to upgrade all the time. If the company for any computer based recording system disappears, that system will disappear with it.

But, yes, we did care. Of course we cared and deeply. Firstly there is the question of after sales servicing (parts, tech support and general know how when things go wrong or are to be improved) and secondly, nobody wants to be the proud owner of a failed product from a failed company.

And then there is the question of buying a product from a company that may not be there next week (hardly likely with DigiDesign).

When Rupert got into trouble, the joke at the AES was "Can you remember Neve? Only if you focus right!"

Not much of a joke, especially if you had just lost your deposit on a new desk!

[nativeaudio]

I can't imagine people hassling the local mall when the 'New Year Diet Coke' sale is being dropped in February or something.

The studio market has changed a lot since tape was the preferred format, lots of studios are struggling - and some studios close down since there are more expenses than income - so the value and update prices of whatever platform you're working is an issue for many studios. Maybe the PTHD exchange prices aren't interesting for people who are generating big money from producing hit song or rent out their studios daily - or for sound engineers working in others' studios, but the cost of current and future PT gear is an issue for lots of people, especially if HD systems are being replaced by something else soon. Since Avid, Apple and all others are quiet about their next move, why not waste some time on foolish speculations, or at least ignore that others will speculate how much their gear is worth in a few months from now? Unless there's a big market for the kind of music/work you do, the cost difference between upgrading every few years and the results of changes in Coca Cola's roadmap for future softdrinks does matter, especially for small studios.

I'm sure Digidesign will be around for many years, but since compatibility is a main reason to buy PTHD, one can save a lot of money on not buying their 'old' systems close to the release of new products. This isn't really a Digidesign-specific issue, it's about changing formats due to new technology and possibly due to the need to generate more sales. Someone who made a lot of money on selling DSP cards and audio interfaces simply need to adjust their strategy when they see major competition in the audio interface market or if DSP power becomes really inexpensive. Re exchange prices, maybe they would have generated more sales if they reduced the prices instead of increasing them, but that wouldn't be a smart move if they're about to launch something new in the near future.

Avid got totally new management mid-December and I would expect major lay-offs and selling of some periferal assets.

They already announced lay-offs (150 people) and sold periferal assets in 2007.

I just cannot see anything replacing PT except perhaps Soundscape or Logic.

Logic probably can't replace TDM in mixerless studios until it can offer low latency in large songs - always - or at least until Apple can offer a better user interface for direct monitoring. Faster computers would of course help too...

If the new management do not sell DigiDesign to somebody like Yamaha or Sony, I cannot see how it is to survive.

They could sell to Apple. Or release a new generation high end recording gear - soon - that will generate new sales. Personally, I'd prefer a combination of the two, but I don't think this will happen anytime soon...

[severe]

I placed an order for a new HD system, just before the new year. I was told, by my sales rep, that the exchange on this system (MixCore to HD1) would be going up about 40%.

Who knows? It didn't come across as an incentive to make the move, I was already sold. It was just an interesting remark. My only concern was getting in before the new year.

Now it will be interesting to see what's in store. I think, if anything, there's a good possibility for a more powerful card at a better price point.

[themaidsroom]

Studer has never once done that to me and as apocryphal as it may sound:
my A827 has not created 10% of the headaches or downtime as my HD
rig - one of them has always been the sonic champion, year after year,
just as one of them is an extremely well built tool designed for constant
use......one of them is purely a money-making venture





be well


- jack

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

Studer has never once done that to me and as apocryphal as it may sound:
my A827 has not created 10% of the headaches or downtime as my HD
rig - one of them has always been the sonic champion, year after year,
just as one of them is an extremely well built tool designed for constant
use......one of them is purely a money-making venture





be well


- jack

[Lwilliam]

HD Accel was introduced Sept/Oct 2003. That makes it over 4 years old.

That's pretty old in "computer years".

The first trio of MacPro G5's had just come out in June of 2003, I believe.

I sure hope Digi is about ready to release some newer, more powerful hardware.

[Tibbon]

Everyone acts like Digi/Avid will be around forever. Their company finances are weak, and no matter how much you argue that "Protools is king" that doesn't turn it into gold for shareholders.

There are many large companies that have been at the top of their game, only to either have to totally reinvent themselves, or go out of business.

Moog, ARP, SSL, Studer, and even Apple all have either gone under, became acquired or nearly gone under at various points. Avid/Digi's management could drive them into the ground.

Umm, no shit that the HD cards are only, "Worth $200 of parts". If this is a shock to you, then you fail at business. Yea it's $200 of parts, and $500 of marketing, and $500 of money to their dealers, and $500 to R&D, etc... There is more to gear than just parts. Any monkey knows that.

Most of you look at the Logic vs Protools thing as such an insular thing as to just what happens in your studios. What happens in the studios doesn't matter honestly to Wall Street, who at the end of the day will choose what happens with those companies. Avid could be picked up and liquidated for its assets if they post a few bad quarters. Not going to happen with Apple.

Same for people that absolutely love AMD. AMD is weak as hell right now and could be picked up for not much at all by a leveraged buyout.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

First, the fiasco of releasing the RTAS version of the Massenburg EQ without any discount or free upgrade for existing TDM owners,

Massenburg sets the price on the the RTAS upgrades (or lack of). Pricing on the MDW RTAS EQ has zero control by Digidesign.
See the last post on page 2 ...

DUC: Massenburg EQ RTAS

[Tibbon]

Of course they are going to raise their prices eventually to trade in old gear. If Apple had a tradeup program on their computers, wouldn't you eventually expect that they valuate a G4 for less money at some point than they were prior?