Apogee Duet/ Ensemble Preamps vs. DAV BG1 or like

edwardsean · 17th December 2007

Hi,

I record solo fingerstyle acoustic. Recently, I picked up a Duet. I couldn’t be happier… except I could. I love the sound I’m getting but I keep tripping over the fact that it was 500 for 2 preamps + 2 converters +FW interfacing and a headphone amp. Common sense tells me that a dedicated preamp costing as much or more should be more. So I’ve been thinking about adding a DAV BG1. Can someone who has experience with the Duet or Ensemble and other preamps advise me if this is worthwhile, or if it’s just a matter of margins. I’ve been searching the threads but haven’t found a satisfying answer. I know that if I’m happy I should just get on with making music. But then this forum really wouldn’t be what it is. Thanks, any help you can give would really be appreciated.

Mr. Landmark · 17th December 2007

I'm also interested in knowing more about this as I'm considering to buy Apogee Ensemble in near future. Sound & quality wise which other preamps do you duet/ensemble owners think the internal preamps are comparable to?

laurentboutonnat · 30th December 2007

Just very easy:

The Ensemble and Duet both use the TI PGA2500 one chip mic-preamp with a +10db pad before it, so they have a total of 75db gain in one step digital selection.

The DAV-BG1 uses an old tired INA217(2001), but this can be replaced by the THAT1512. A DAV-BG1 will sound comparable to the Ensemble/Duet if the INA is replaced by the 1512. The PGA2500 is much better than the THAT1512 though, it's also much newer (2004). The DAV-BG1 will sound better because of much much higher quality power supplies.

A decent power supply with large capacitors to reduce ripple and good quality linear regulators is much larger than the whole duet! So the duet is limited to just basic ripple filtering of the very bad power supply of your computer...tutt

ALL*MYTEE · 30th December 2007

I have an Ensemble and in my opinion the pres are as good or better than any of the prosumer stuff you're likely to find for under a grand--(except for 500 series modules). I don't have any experience with how being dependent on your computer's power supply would affect them, but you'd likely get a decent answer if you called Apogee.

The pres aren't very sexy color wise, but very usable in a straightforward, modern, warm, kind of round way. They don't have much attitude or edge but they are clear and forward and fairly musical. If you wanted another pre, I'd say save your pennies and go for something APIish, Great Riverish or above (around a grand/channel). For the money the Apogee pres are extremely good.

Or, if you like them--just put the money into mics or monitors--there are plenty of ways to get better sound.

Max (the Apogee guy on here) said about the Ensemble (which has the same pres as the Duet) that the pres alone were worth the price of the unit. That may be a bit of a stretch at the list price, but it's definitely true at the street price. Considering you get conversion and a whole lot more both units are a great deal.

Don't let the price fool you into thinking it's not the real deal. Apogee saves a lot of money by controlling the unit through software (and skipping the power supply ion the Duet) and putting more money into the chips. The Duet and Ensemble really are breakthrough products. I'm surprised that so many threads still take so long to get around to Apogee stuff. The Duet and Ensemble may be at the bottom of the pro ladder, but they're far above the last generation of prosumer stuff. It will be neat to see the next generation of higher end all-in-one boxes now that they've got the lower end pretty well covered.

My question to myself is always can I reach pro audio standards on the equipment I'm using? When I got an Ensemble my conversion search was pretty much over. Unless you have $1500 preamp channels, $1500 mics and $2400 monitors, it's unlikely that your weak link will say Apogee on the front panel. I'd love a Lavry or a Rosetta, but I'd like some Augsburgers and a Lexus too.

If you can't make a top 40 hit on a Duet, it won't be Apogee's fault.

Enjoy.

MaestroNYC · 31st December 2007

ALL*MYTEE - Thanks for this post... Some really insightful opinions on the Ensemble. I am thinking of getting one soon. It'd be a big step from what I have but I think a logical step before moving up to really hi end pres in a few years (depending on how my business grows).

chk027 · 31st December 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALL*MYTEE

If you can't make a top 40 hit on a Duet, it won't be Apogee's fault.

Enjoy.

Amen Brutha!

thermos · 31st December 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurentboutonnat

Just very easy:

The Ensemble and Duet both use the TI PGA2500 one chip mic-preamp with a +10db pad before it, so they have a total of 75db gain in one step digital selection.

The DAV-BG1 uses an old tired INA217(2001), but this can be replaced by the THAT1512. A DAV-BG1 will sound comparable to the Ensemble/Duet if the INA is replaced by the 1512. The PGA2500 is much better than the THAT1512 though, it's also much newer (2004). The DAV-BG1 will sound better because of much much higher quality power supplies.

A decent power supply with large capacitors to reduce ripple and good quality linear regulators is much larger than the whole duet! So the duet is limited to just basic ripple filtering of the very bad power supply of your computer...tutt

Thanks for the breakdown. Thats all the stuff I was wondering.

So I'm guessing the Ensemble version of the pres will probably sound better, as the power supply is better. I think the Duet pres are very good for what they are, but I don't get the same sense of dynamics/tranisent info that I get from more expensive pres. I guess the poorer power would probably explain that.

Pretty great product though.

chet.d · 31st December 2007

I'm about a heartbeat away from getting the credit card out for the ensemble.
It would solve my issues of needing a master clock, more pres and with a/d - d/a conversion.
what else can compete w/ those 3 tools in a box?

Now if I can only find a price like the $1500' ish one member mentioned.

Mr. Landmark · 1st January 2008

Thanks for the replies guys! Lately I've been reading all I could find on Ensemble and this thread nailed the decision for me. I prefer to buy equipment of such quality that I don't need to think about upgrading for as long as possible, and this is probably it. But why doesn't ensemble have a 96khz capable optical i/o? Could one use 4ch of ad/da at 96khz with the ensemble? Is there a possability that apogee will launch an upgraded version of ensemble anytime soon?

Sorry for the hijack...

cheers

cynics1207 · 1st January 2008

i have a duet..the pre sounded better then my mackie onyx preamp and the converter is sweet and more accurate then audiofire 12 i used to trust! i like the Apogee Duet a lot..definitely the best buy of mine in year 2007 along with the adam a7+sub 8.
i would like to know is there anyway to use the RNP RNLA with the duet preamp?? i know the duet dont have insert, is there anyway i can route the output to the RNLA then go back to the duet A/D..? to give the vocal more attitude and a bit of compression..

happy new year!!

MaestroNYC · 2nd January 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet.d

I'm about a heartbeat away from getting the credit card out for the ensemble.
Now if I can only find a price like the $1500' ish one member
mentioned.

Same here... let me know if anyone finds one for c. $1,500!

MaestroNYC · 3rd January 2008

Did a little pricing as I ran around town (NYC) today. B&H has it for $1,750... out of stock but should be arriving tomorrow.

cephas · 14th October 2008

heres a list i found on a previous post

Affordable quality mic pre-amps - Mac Forums

17th December 2007	#1
edwardsean Gear nut Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 98 Thread Starter	Apogee Duet/ Ensemble Preamps vs. DAV BG1 or like Hi, I record solo fingerstyle acoustic. Recently, I picked up a Duet. I couldn’t be happier… except I could. I love the sound I’m getting but I keep tripping over the fact that it was 500 for 2 preamps + 2 converters +FW interfacing and a headphone amp. Common sense tells me that a dedicated preamp costing as much or more should be more. So I’ve been thinking about adding a DAV BG1. Can someone who has experience with the Duet or Ensemble and other preamps advise me if this is worthwhile, or if it’s just a matter of margins. I’ve been searching the threads but haven’t found a satisfying answer. I know that if I’m happy I should just get on with making music. But then this forum really wouldn’t be what it is. Thanks, any help you can give would really be appreciated.

14th October 2008	#13
cephas Gear Head Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 30	heres a list i found on a previous post heres a list i found on a previous post Affordable quality mic pre-amps - Mac Forums

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17th December 2007	#2
Mr. Landmark Gear nut Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 132	I'm also interested in knowing more about this as I'm considering to buy Apogee Ensemble in near future. Sound & quality wise which other preamps do you duet/ensemble owners think the internal preamps are comparable to?

30th December 2007	#3
laurentboutonnat Gear Head Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 45	Just very easy: The Ensemble and Duet both use the TI PGA2500 one chip mic-preamp with a +10db pad before it, so they have a total of 75db gain in one step digital selection. The DAV-BG1 uses an old tired INA217(2001), but this can be replaced by the THAT1512. A DAV-BG1 will sound comparable to the Ensemble/Duet if the INA is replaced by the 1512. The PGA2500 is much better than the THAT1512 though, it's also much newer (2004). The DAV-BG1 will sound better because of much much higher quality power supplies. A decent power supply with large capacitors to reduce ripple and good quality linear regulators is much larger than the whole duet! So the duet is limited to just basic ripple filtering of the very bad power supply of your computer...tutt

30th December 2007	#4
ALL*MYTEE Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 632	I have an Ensemble and in my opinion the pres are as good or better than any of the prosumer stuff you're likely to find for under a grand--(except for 500 series modules). I don't have any experience with how being dependent on your computer's power supply would affect them, but you'd likely get a decent answer if you called Apogee. The pres aren't very sexy color wise, but very usable in a straightforward, modern, warm, kind of round way. They don't have much attitude or edge but they are clear and forward and fairly musical. If you wanted another pre, I'd say save your pennies and go for something APIish, Great Riverish or above (around a grand/channel). For the money the Apogee pres are extremely good. Or, if you like them--just put the money into mics or monitors--there are plenty of ways to get better sound. Max (the Apogee guy on here) said about the Ensemble (which has the same pres as the Duet) that the pres alone were worth the price of the unit. That may be a bit of a stretch at the list price, but it's definitely true at the street price. Considering you get conversion and a whole lot more both units are a great deal. Don't let the price fool you into thinking it's not the real deal. Apogee saves a lot of money by controlling the unit through software (and skipping the power supply ion the Duet) and putting more money into the chips. The Duet and Ensemble really are breakthrough products. I'm surprised that so many threads still take so long to get around to Apogee stuff. The Duet and Ensemble may be at the bottom of the pro ladder, but they're far above the last generation of prosumer stuff. It will be neat to see the next generation of higher end all-in-one boxes now that they've got the lower end pretty well covered. My question to myself is always can I reach pro audio standards on the equipment I'm using? When I got an Ensemble my conversion search was pretty much over. Unless you have $1500 preamp channels, $1500 mics and $2400 monitors, it's unlikely that your weak link will say Apogee on the front panel. I'd love a Lavry or a Rosetta, but I'd like some Augsburgers and a Lexus too. If you can't make a top 40 hit on a Duet, it won't be Apogee's fault. Enjoy.

31st December 2007	#5
MaestroNYC Gear nut Joined: Apr 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 101	ALL*MYTEE - Thanks for this post... Some really insightful opinions on the Ensemble. I am thinking of getting one soon. It'd be a big step from what I have but I think a logical step before moving up to really hi end pres in a few years (depending on how my business grows).

31st December 2007	#8
chet.d Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 742	I'm about a heartbeat away from getting the credit card out for the ensemble. It would solve my issues of needing a master clock, more pres and with a/d - d/a conversion. what else can compete w/ those 3 tools in a box? Now if I can only find a price like the $1500' ish one member mentioned.

1st January 2008	#9
Mr. Landmark Gear nut Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 132	Thanks for the replies guys! Lately I've been reading all I could find on Ensemble and this thread nailed the decision for me. I prefer to buy equipment of such quality that I don't need to think about upgrading for as long as possible, and this is probably it. But why doesn't ensemble have a 96khz capable optical i/o? Could one use 4ch of ad/da at 96khz with the ensemble? Is there a possability that apogee will launch an upgraded version of ensemble anytime soon? Sorry for the hijack... cheers

1st January 2008	#10
cynics1207 Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: target studio, KL Posts: 518	i have a duet..the pre sounded better then my mackie onyx preamp and the converter is sweet and more accurate then audiofire 12 i used to trust! i like the Apogee Duet a lot..definitely the best buy of mine in year 2007 along with the adam a7+sub 8. i would like to know is there anyway to use the RNP RNLA with the duet preamp?? i know the duet dont have insert, is there anyway i can route the output to the RNLA then go back to the duet A/D..? to give the vocal more attitude and a bit of compression.. happy new year!!

3rd January 2008	#12
MaestroNYC Gear nut Joined: Apr 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 101	Did a little pricing as I ran around town (NYC) today. B&H has it for $1,750... out of stock but should be arriving tomorrow.