Does an inferior D/A affect what is translated to CD?

[lucasmusic]

Firstly I know that D/A converters translates analog signals back into digital. however, could i record a song having only upgraded the D/A section of my chain and burn it to disc (MP3) and would the listener be able to tell a difference in the sound quality or that I upgraded the converter (D/A), how does it affect when translated to MP3? or is this only something that I would notice as Im mixing in pro tools? Is A/D conversion only thing heard on disc MP3?
kindness appreciated! thanks.

Right now Im using:
Digi002 with protools le

[sevendaysoff]

No. D/A is not utilized when using the "bounce to disk" command. It's all digital.

inferior D/a does effect the mixing process however, unless you got your system dialed you may be hearing one thing and bounce to disk and hear something completely different on a playback system. D/a is utilized for playback only unless your bouncing to an external machine. So while you mix, what you hear out of your speakers may not be true to what is really going on within the spectrum

and mp3 sucks in general

we have an 002 in one of our rooms but we added a mini-dac to the setup. I will tell yuo what I have learned about the 002 d/a . It seems there is a lot of emphasis in the 500 - 1k area. Vocal tracks that seem to sit in the mix great, once bounced, are usually too low. Have your vocals sitting right on top of the mix almost sounding a little too loud. This is standard practice when sending off your album to get mastered anyways, to include a "vocal up" version. Our B room with the 002 is only utilized for urban artists/producers so I cant really say anything about organic sounds and the 002. We use PT|HD w/ ad16x & rosetta 200 for all of our "live music".

[Reptil]

yeh man, mp3's are only good for the occasional website demo. (nice n fast on the www)
no matter what ppl. say.. "they sound just as good etc." it's a lossy format (stuff gets thrown away) and your brain has to compensate, when listening to it. This makes for a worse listening experience. YMMV meaning one brain is not like the other, but that's the general issue.
Broadcast WAV is the current norm.
if you want to send stuff to ppl. encode it with FLAC. (lossless compression)

the digi 002 is not regarded in these parts as a wonderful sounding interface (there is certainly room for improvement), but trust your ears, check elsewhere (carstereo, home system, club) and have your releases mastered by a good pro, and you'll be fine.

[manthe]

only if you mix OTB...

[ocianic]

I just bought a used Prism ADA8 and can tell you that I honestly feel like I'm hearing things now for the first time (w/ PTHD). I can now hear rooms more clearly on Drum samples that I've been using for years... it really makes a difference. In the past I've owned an AD8000, 888's and a Trak2 and could never hear things properly... the way I can now.

Like previous posters have stated, if you bounce, you're not using the D/A... but if you record the mix to 2track post D/A then you will be capturing the quality of the converters.

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by lucasmusic

Firstly I know that D/A converters translates analog signals back into digital. however, could i record a song having only upgraded the D/A section of my chain and burn it to disc (MP3) and would the listener be able to tell a difference in the sound quality or that I upgraded the converter (D/A), how does it affect when translated to MP3? or is this only something that I would notice as Im mixing in pro tools? Is A/D conversion only thing heard on disc MP3?
kindness appreciated! thanks.

Right now Im using:
Digi002 with protools le

As 529 said - you're talking about A>>>D not Digital>>> analog, are you not?

So you're wondering:

1) whether the increased quality of the material you've recorded since upgrading your AD will be compromised by converting to MP3 -

By definition yes, as MP3 is lossy as you know - however a higer bit rate eg 384 will sound good anyway. Even 192 will sound OK if the source material sounded good.

2) Whether anyone will notice the increased quality on your new MP3s? -

I doubt it, if they are listening on consumer equipment eg PC speakers - also they would need to hear the stuff side-by-side anyway, and the difference will be subtle

[Sugarnutz]

One thing that people seem to overlook is that the D/A in the CD/MP3 players that the end user is listening on is not that great to begin with so in a way an excellent D/A in your mix environment is almost a waste of time. Get something your comfortable listening to and learn your environment. If the best in conversion makes you feel better equipped to do your job, go for it, but again learn your environment, listen to a lot of material until you know what your kit sounds like, this will make you a better mixer, just slapping the latest/greatest piece of gear will not. At times I think people in this biz (myself included) get way too anal about this stuff, like can’t see the forest for the trees ya know.

[ocianic]

Originally Posted by Sugarnutz

One thing that people seem to overlook is that the D/A in the CD/MP3 players that the end user is listening on is not that great to begin with so in a way an excellent D/A in your mix environment is almost a waste of time. Get something your comfortable listening to and learn your environment. If the best in conversion makes you feel better equipped to do your job, go for it, but again learn your environment, listen to a lot of material until you know what your kit sounds like, this will make you a better mixer, just slapping the latest/greatest piece of gear will not. At times I think people in this biz (myself included) get way too anal about this stuff, like can’t see the forest for the trees ya know.

Good advice

[Kiwiburger]

Could you paint a great picture if you had to view the world through foggy glasses? Just because many people will only hear your ITB mixes via foggy D/A converters, doesn't mean everybody will. Many hifi listeners buy excellent D/A such as Benchmark DAC-1's, and can hear details that you may not be able to hear.

If you get a good D/A, it will change the way you hear things, and it will force you to make better decisions. You will be removing noise and mistakes you may not have heard before. You will have to work harder, but you will end up with a better mix.

[luctellier]

Originally Posted by Sugarnutz

One thing that people seem to overlook is that the D/A in the CD/MP3 players that the end user is listening on is not that great to begin with so in a way an excellent D/A in your mix environment is almost a waste of time. Get something your comfortable listening to and learn your environment. If the best in conversion makes you feel better equipped to do your job, go for it, but again learn your environment, listen to a lot of material until you know what your kit sounds like, this will make you a better mixer, just slapping the latest/greatest piece of gear will not. At times I think people in this biz (myself included) get way too anal about this stuff, like can’t see the forest for the trees ya know.

You nailed it!

[ocianic]

I know using a better D/A makes the vibe more enjoyable and inspires me to create better music... the foggy glasses analogy resonates with me also...

[jhg]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Could you paint a great picture if you had to view the world through foggy glasses? Just because many people will only hear your ITB mixes via foggy D/A converters, doesn't mean everybody will. Many hifi listeners buy excellent D/A such as Benchmark DAC-1's, and can hear details that you may not be able to hear.

If you get a good D/A, it will change the way you hear things, and it will force you to make better decisions. You will be removing noise and mistakes you may not have heard before. You will have to work harder, but you will end up with a better mix.

Absolutely.

Beyond the hi-fi folks, the studio should of course be the place where you make sonic decisions, these should be based on accurately hearing the material. I think the OTB comment isn't totally correct: a good 2 channel D to A is totally necessary when ITB mixing is involved, same as monitors and room treatment: you make choices based on what you hear.

Like the oft repeated MP3 statement: "But everyone listens to IPODs with earbuds" So should we mix with earbuds and a filter on the bus that flattens everything and makes it sound like ass? If it sounds good on an accurate full range system, it'll sound good in the mp3 realm, crappy home, car, shower, etc stereos. Vice-versa? Not so much

Regards,

jhg

[severe]

Originally Posted by jhg

Absolutely.

Beyond the hi-fi folks, the studio should of course be the place where you make sonic decisions, these should be based on accurately hearing the material. I think the OTB comment isn't totally correct: a good 2 channel D to A is totally necessary when ITB mixing is involved, same as monitors and room treatment: you make choices based on what you hear.

Like the oft repeated MP3 statement: "But everyone listens to IPODs with earbuds" So should we mix with earbuds and a filter on the bus that flattens everything and makes it sound like ass? If it sounds good on an accurate full range system, it'll sound good in the mp3 realm, crappy home, car, shower, etc stereos. Vice-versa? Not so much

Regards,

jhg

thumbsup

[edwardsean]

It's because that the great majority of people will be listening with bad D/A that you need accurate D/A. If the Digi 002 system had a rise at 5-1k, then you can be sure that an ipod has its own set of anomalies, and a zune has a whole bunch of different ones, another for the sony boombox, a rise at 400 for a bose home stereo, a dip at 1600 for the factory car stereo, and on and on.

If you aren't at center neutral, given your skew and their skew, it will be by pure chance as to whether their system corrects your mess a little or makes it twice as worse.