When Doves Cry

Extramission · 8th December 2007, 08:06 AM

About three minutes into When Doves Cry, do you hear the rythym being cut short by a 32nd best? Why did he choose to catch the listener off guard like this?

picksail · 8th December 2007, 08:39 AM

Cause he's Prince and he can.

He also elected to refrain from using a bass line in this song.

ari800 · 8th December 2007, 08:50 AM

Don't know how he comes up with this stuff... But there are some Prince songs you gotta love and this is one of them!

morebutter · 8th December 2007, 09:57 AM

where exactly in the song do you hear this?

Blast9 · 8th December 2007, 10:02 AM

Outrageous compression on the Kik - almost sounds like a short delay

--- OH wait --- wrong track! This is the one with weird flange on the drums

TEMAS · 8th December 2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blast9

--- OH wait --- wrong track! This is the one with weird flange on the drums

That flange is on a lot of his drums from that era. I noticed the new Justin Timberlake single uses samples of the drums at the beginning of The Beautiful Ones (track 3 on Purple Rain). In fact, I was gonna start a new thread about his drum sounds from Controversy through to Around The World In A Day. What were the drum sounds he was using and why do we never hear anyone else using those sounds unless they are samples of his records?

fanriffic · 8th December 2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEMAS

In fact, I was gonna start a new thread about his drum sounds from Controversy through to Around The World In A Day.

...yeah..In fact a whole 80's prince production thread would be heavy..

....if someone else doesn't do it i will..dam it

Drumsound · 8th December 2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extramission

About three minutes into When Doves Cry, do you hear the rythym being cut short by a 32nd best? Why did he choose to catch the listener off guard like this?

If it really as short as a 32nd note I'd bet its a tape edit of some sort. Possibly the radio edit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEMAS

That flange is on a lot of his drums from that era. I noticed the new Justin Timberlake single uses samples of the drums at the beginning of The Beautiful Ones (track 3 on Purple Rain). In fact, I was gonna start a new thread about his drum sounds from Controversy through to Around The World In A Day. What were the drum sounds he was using and why do we never hear anyone else using those sounds unless they are samples of his records?

A lot of Prince hits have the Linn Drum on them. Often with a live drummer.

Steamy Williams · 8th December 2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEMAS

That flange is on a lot of his drums from that era. I noticed the new Justin Timberlake single uses samples of the drums at the beginning of The Beautiful Ones (track 3 on Purple Rain). In fact, I was gonna start a new thread about his drum sounds from Controversy through to Around The World In A Day. What were the drum sounds he was using and why do we never hear anyone else using those sounds unless they are samples of his records?

Controversy was the first of Prince's albums to feature a drum machine, but Dirty Mind, and the eponymous album before it, had really great drum sounds on them too. I would particularly like to know how he got the live drum sounds on 'Head', as they smack a bit like a drum machine. A Linn LM-1 and a bunch of Boss pedals were used on 'When Doves Cry'. I'm glad I picked up my LM-1 before the prices started getting silly

.

TEMAS · 8th December 2007, 11:00 AM

Thanks for the tip on the Linn drum sound. I've never heard of them before and I'll be checking them out.

Steamy Williams · 8th December 2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumsound

A lot of Prince hits have the Linn Drum on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEMAS

Thanks for the tip on the Linn drum sound. I've never heard of them before and I'll be checking them out.

Prince did use a LinnDrum from time to time, but he predominately used its predecessor, the much rarer Linn LM-1, of which only about 525 were made.

TEMAS · 8th December 2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

Controversy was the first of Prince's albums to feature a drum machine, but Dirty Mind, and the eponymous album before it, had really great drum sounds on them too. I would particularly like to know how he got the live drum sounds on 'Head', as they smack a bit like a drum machine.

Yeah, Dirty Mind is my favourite of his albums along with Purple Rain. The drums on Head and Party Up sound like they were recorded in a really dead room with loads of dampening. Not sure if there's drum machine hits as well; I'll have another listen.

All of Prince's drums are played live; as are all the instruments. In fact, I don't think he even plays to a click track; he's really 'anti-quantize'. Whenever I've tried to remix his songs (for my own pleasure) they never stay exactly on the beat/timeline; he speed up and slow down through-out the song.

Steamy Williams · 8th December 2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEMAS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

Controversy was the first of Prince's albums to feature a drum machine, but Dirty Mind, and the eponymous album before it, had really great drum sounds on them too. I would particularly like to know how he got the live drum sounds on 'Head', as they smack a bit like a drum machine.

Yeah, Dirty Mind is my favourite of his albums along with Purple Rain. The drums on Head and Party Up sound like they were recorded in a really dead room with loads of dampening. Not sure if there's drum machine hits as well; I'll have another listen.

As I said before, I'm pretty sure that Controversy was the first album on which Prince used to a drum machine, so it's fairly safe to assume that Dirty Mind is live drums only.

TEMAS · 8th December 2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

As I said before, I'm pretty sure that Controversy was the first album on which Prince used to a drum machine, so it's fairly safe to assume that Dirty Mind is live drums only.

Yeah I know. Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing.

Acoustic Cloud · 8th December 2007, 04:28 PM

Musicology was brilliant

Blast9 · 9th December 2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blast9

Outrageous compression on the Kik - almost sounds like a short delay

--- OH wait --- wrong track! This is the one with weird flange on the drums

I think its Sign O the times with the crazy kik drum compression

chrispick · 9th December 2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by picksail

Cause he's Prince and he can.

He also elected to refrain from using a bass line in this song.

Yeah, and it's gotta be the only R&B hit song to have pulled that off. Pretty daring.

It's a great single IMO. Sure, the lyrics are a little melodramatic (it's Prince), but the rest is tremendous.

James Guitar · 9th December 2007, 04:04 PM

i don't hear any 32nd-note drop, so if someone could point it out specifically, i would be much obliged.
i would probably agree with the suggestion that, if it's indeed there, it's an edit. that song loses two minutes between the album cut and the radio edit.
-J

paultools · 9th December 2007, 04:53 PM

"Beautiful Ones' is really cool... some half-speed recording involved there.

Don't forget to play the Purple Rain album backwards!
The obvious spot is after "Beautiful", but also on the intro of "Baby I'm a Star".

Sounds Great · 9th December 2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paultools

"Beautiful Ones' is really cool... some half-speed recording involved there.

Don't forget to play the Purple Rain album backwards!
The obvious spot is after "Beautiful", but also on the intro of "Baby I'm a Star".

I didn't know this. I will have to go try that.

paultools · 9th December 2007, 05:18 PM

[quote=chrispick;1683077]Yeah, and it's gotta be the only R&B hit song to have pulled that off. Pretty daring.
/QUOTE]

Plenty of low end there, though.

Timmy Thomas: "Why Can't We Live Together" had no bass. Great record that I used to think sounded awful. Now, it seems like it has just the right amount of wrongness.

Steamy Williams · 9th December 2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispick

Quote:

Originally Posted by picksail

Cause he's Prince and he can.

He also elected to refrain from using a bass line in this song.

Yeah, and it's gotta be the only R&B hit song to have pulled that off.

He pulled that feat off again with 'Kiss'.

themaidsroom · 9th December 2007, 06:35 PM

from what i have read, 6 of those 9 purple rain tracks were cut live in a truck
while he played them at first avenue....

it would be great if jules could get susan rogers to show up here........
i had an obsessed friend who made a record with her so that
he could talk prince

i love prince so much - i think i have every record
musicology only had one song for me "how do you want me to do you?"

i think my favorite is "joy in repetition" from grafitti bridge

the new record i have only heard once.....
i need to put controversy and dirty mind in my ipod

be well

- jack

timtoonz · 9th December 2007, 06:40 PM

I always thought the most "Prince-y" of drum machines was the Oberheim DMX.

Prince was/is a huge Oberheim nut, with plenty of OBX and OB8 sounds all over 1999, Controversy, Dirty Mind, and Purple Rain.

I also love his use of the stock DX7 sounds (the factory presets nobody else touched, like the timps et al) on 'Around the World in a Day'.

Over the years, I think I'm settling into the opinion that LoveSexy is my fave Prince album. Can't even tell ya why. It just gels in a really nice way for me, and seems to balance all his different moods just right for my sensibility -- sexy crazed funk, jazzy dabblings, electric Hendrix rock-outs, and of course those uniquely Prince um, Prince-isms.

Great live show too. Not to be missed.

sleestack · 9th December 2007, 07:13 PM

I think everything he has done since the start of the 90's has been awful. Just my opinion though

Extramission · 10th December 2007, 03:51 AM

You guys are right, I was listening to the radio edit version when I heard the missing 32nd note. I just listened to the long version and it wasn't there. Thanks. If you want to hear it for yourself its 3 minutes into the radio edit version.

chrispick · 10th December 2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

He pulled that feat off again with 'Kiss'.

I think you may be right! Leave it to Prince to out-Prince himself.

BrianT · 10th December 2007, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispick

Yeah, and it's gotta be the only R&B hit song to have pulled that off. Pretty daring.

No, that's a Prince thang on more than one hit. No bass.

Rasberry Beret. Kiss. Others I can't name off the top of my head.

I've always been impressed with his willingness to be original. Can you imagine the record company geeks freaking out and telling him that without a bass, none of those songs would ever be a hit.

chrispick · 10th December 2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianT

No, that's a Prince thang on more than one hit. No bass.

Rasberry Beret. Kiss. Others I can't name off the top of my head.

I've always been impressed with his willingness to be original. Can you imagine the record company geeks freaking out and telling him that without a bass, none of those songs would ever be a hit.

Well, Raspberry Beret has stuff going on in the bass frequency shaping the chords, presumably a keyboard part. But Kiss only seems to have that crazy gated verb kick going on.

In any case, all three songs cited are great examples of creative pop writing and arranging that broke from the norm of their day.

littledoodler · 10th December 2007, 07:45 AM

I always found around the World in a day to be too bright and trebly for my taste. But when i was a kid, man I loved that album. Sign of the times has some truly wondrous songs on it, but my favorite has to be Under the Cherry Moon/Parade...Sometimes it snows in April.

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8th December 2007, 08:06 AM	#1
Extramission Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 17	When Doves Cry About three minutes into When Doves Cry, do you hear the rythym being cut short by a 32nd best? Why did he choose to catch the listener off guard like this?

8th December 2007, 08:39 AM	#2
picksail Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 3,250	Cause he's Prince and he can. He also elected to refrain from using a bass line in this song. __________________ Stewart Cararas Seventh Level Productions Myspace Profile Discogs _________________________________ The new is necessarily abstract - Rudolf Borchadt

8th December 2007, 10:02 AM	#5
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,644	Outrageous compression on the Kik - almost sounds like a short delay --- OH wait --- wrong track! This is the one with weird flange on the drums __________________ :: my band is called protoangel . My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602Digi 002 + PTLE

8th December 2007, 04:28 PM	#15
Acoustic Cloud Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: around the corner Posts: 1,968	Musicology was brilliant __________________ If the Earth wasnt created, where'd all the dirt come from?

8th December 2007, 08:50 AM	#3
ari800 Gear Head Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 41	Don't know how he comes up with this stuff... But there are some Prince songs you gotta love and this is one of them!

8th December 2007, 09:57 AM	#4
morebutter Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northeast Corridor Posts: 372	where exactly in the song do you hear this?

8th December 2007, 11:00 AM	#10
TEMAS Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 1,170	Thanks for the tip on the Linn drum sound. I've never heard of them before and I'll be checking them out.

9th December 2007, 04:04 PM	#18
James Guitar Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 537	i don't hear any 32nd-note drop, so if someone could point it out specifically, i would be much obliged. i would probably agree with the suggestion that, if it's indeed there, it's an edit. that song loses two minutes between the album cut and the radio edit. -J

9th December 2007, 04:53 PM	#19
paultools Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 1,379	"Beautiful Ones' is really cool... some half-speed recording involved there. Don't forget to play the Purple Rain album backwards! The obvious spot is after "Beautiful", but also on the intro of "Baby I'm a Star". __________________ We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.

9th December 2007, 05:18 PM	#21
paultools Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 1,379	[quote=chrispick;1683077]Yeah, and it's gotta be the only R&B hit song to have pulled that off. Pretty daring. /QUOTE] Plenty of low end there, though. Timmy Thomas: "Why Can't We Live Together" had no bass. Great record that I used to think sounded awful. Now, it seems like it has just the right amount of wrongness. __________________ We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.

9th December 2007, 06:35 PM	#23
themaidsroom Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: nyc Posts: 2,662	from what i have read, 6 of those 9 purple rain tracks were cut live in a truck while he played them at first avenue.... it would be great if jules could get susan rogers to show up here........ i had an obsessed friend who made a record with her so that he could talk prince i love prince so much - i think i have every record musicology only had one song for me "how do you want me to do you?" i think my favorite is "joy in repetition" from grafitti bridge the new record i have only heard once..... i need to put controversy and dirty mind in my ipod be well - jack

9th December 2007, 06:40 PM	#24
timtoonz Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mr. & Mississauga Posts: 256	I always thought the most "Prince-y" of drum machines was the Oberheim DMX. Prince was/is a huge Oberheim nut, with plenty of OBX and OB8 sounds all over 1999, Controversy, Dirty Mind, and Purple Rain. I also love his use of the stock DX7 sounds (the factory presets nobody else touched, like the timps et al) on 'Around the World in a Day'. Over the years, I think I'm settling into the opinion that LoveSexy is my fave Prince album. Can't even tell ya why. It just gels in a really nice way for me, and seems to balance all his different moods just right for my sensibility -- sexy crazed funk, jazzy dabblings, electric Hendrix rock-outs, and of course those uniquely Prince um, Prince-isms. Great live show too. Not to be missed. __________________ "I'll play it and tell you what it is later" Miles

9th December 2007, 07:13 PM	#25
sleestack Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 701	I think everything he has done since the start of the 90's has been awful. Just my opinion though

10th December 2007, 03:51 AM	#26
Extramission Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 17	You guys are right, I was listening to the radio edit version when I heard the missing 32nd note. I just listened to the long version and it wasn't there. Thanks. If you want to hear it for yourself its 3 minutes into the radio edit version.

10th December 2007, 07:45 AM	#30
littledoodler Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Beezers' Nook Posts: 674	I always found around the World in a day to be too bright and trebly for my taste. But when i was a kid, man I loved that album. Sign of the times has some truly wondrous songs on it, but my favorite has to be Under the Cherry Moon/Parade...Sometimes it snows in April.

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