overhead mic placement

[rynugz007]

anybody know of any good tips/tricks or articles on overhead mic placement? Im looking for the jedi techniques.

[PaRaNoId]

Don't even get me started...what results are you looking for?

CINCINNATI is my hometown...awesome

[dhughes]

This is an amazing thread on a couple unique OH techniques....

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...ht=recorderman

[rynugz007]

"oh my god"

Im not sure what ya mean, is it a no no to ask others for help or has this subject been discussed to death already?

Anyways, theres nothing awesome about cincy, maybe cause i've lived here all my life. What part did you live in?

basically im just trying to get my overhead sound tighter and closer to the front of the mix. My room is small but it is treated somewhat. (needs more though).

thanks

[PaRaNoId]

Sorry, my subject field always is unrelated to the subject. I was not trying to insult you or say that the subject is old. I merely am obsessed with overhead teqniques and just wanted clarification. No bad vibes..... I personally use overheads to capture cymbals, not as a full kit image like alot of people do. I like taking the overheads from the frontside of the kit in a ORTF or XY pattern with the mics a foot above the cymbals and facing the cymbals edge (not facing down). This gives you a real edgy, and realistic cymbal sound. I find that spaced pairs (especially when facing the ground) result in a very unrealistic sound with alot of comb filtering. However, i recently ran into a situation where spaced pair actually worked better. This was due to the nature of the playing (very lax) and cymbal placement. Just my my 2 cents. Tons of slutz on this forum will have varying answers and that's why this place is so wonderful...BTW I grew up in Blue Ash and still visit time-to-time. I will also admit that Cinci isn't the coolest place in the world...

[Jan Folkson]

Lately, I've been using a pair of SDCs in x/y placed slightly behind the drummer about a foot above, pointing slightly forward, toward the cymbals.

I tend to move them around a lot, looking for the best sound (depending on the kit/drummer/material), but almost always go with x/y.

Also try a pair of ribbons in place of the SDCs if you're looking for a mellower/less hyped sound.

[Han]

Jan, try a pair of SDC's in a NOS or DIN placement, or closer to the kit in an ORTF placement and see how it works.

I've never liked XY.

[Jan Folkson]

I've had great success with x/y, I'll have to give the others a try. Thanks for the tip.

[rynugz007]

i tried the recorderman technique the other day. Sounded great, stereo image wasnt super wide but no phase issues. Thanks for all the replys everyone.

[bloodsweatfire]

Sorry if this has been brought up many times before...But what is
ORTF? (what does it stand for?)

Thank you.

For what it is worth, I am not getting the desired results with the recorder man method. The whole mix sounds a bit too centered for my tastes.
Also XY seems a bit thin on this setup/room/kit.
I have been using the overheads in a fairly wide spread, both mics facing towards the center of the kit. I dont seem to expereince phase issues so I suppose it is worth it to proceed.
LIke most I just to experiment with every placement I can.

Thank you very much.
blood

[lamp]

Paranold, I agree with you completly!

I have tried the Glenn Johns technique and various others and I keep coming back to a SDC pair that picks up cymbals only.

Of course the room can make a huge diff, but if your room is modest try this.

Put on a good set of phones with decent isolation and stand at the drum throne with a small dia cond. in your hand and wack the cymbals.

If you hold the mic fairly high and aimed down at the cyms. kike a spaced pair, you will hear alot of the mid range honk from the cym.

Now hold the mic a little lower and come in from the side, some where in the middle of the kit, sort of centered above your kick drum knee. Tons of that mid freq. crap will disapear and the cym. should have a nicer top end to it.

Right now im using a x/y set of small cond. placed only high enough above my kick drum knee to avoid being hit with a stick. The cyms. are fairly high so the mics are pointing in from the side more than looking down.

Paranold I have also tried this aproach out side the kit like you suggest with good results, although it was a wide spaced pair rather than the x/y. Also looking at he cyms. from the side, not from the top. You can't aim right at the edge though , You'll get that woooosh woooosh as the the cym rocks back and forth in front of the mic. Raise the mic up a little above that and use your ears.

As far as the snare image being centered in the overheads, this has not been a problem for me really. When I bring in the snare mic, I pan it dead center and the overheads don't seem to smear this image.

If I hab three U47's and could track at the Power Station, I would try the old school stuff again. If only.

[rynugz007]

ortf- office de radiodiffusion television francaise

two cardioids, capsules aimed 17cm apart at 110 degree angle

[Jan Folkson]

Originally posted by bloodsweatfire
Sorry if this has been brought up many times before...But what is
ORTF? (what does it stand for?)

This should be a good start:

http://recordinglair.com/record/location/micplace.htm

[bloodsweatfire]

Originally posted by Jan Folkson
This should be a good start:

http://recordinglair.com/record/location/micplace.htm

Jan, thank you!
That is excellent and I sincerely appreciate it.
Anyone know where there are pictures of all of these techniques?

blood

[rynugz007]

www.dpamicrophones.com

go to microphone university then go to stereo techniques.

[junebughunter]

I use a pair of AT4041's about 1-2 feet above the cymbals pointed straight down, one above the ride (where the second tom would be traditionally on a 5 piece) and one above the hi-hat

I space them evenly and make sure they are the same height.

I also setup a room mic, usually an AT4050 about 10-15 feet away near a corner and turn it on omni. Add some compression to it and a eq bump around 10khz to make sure I capture those delicious highs and mix it in appropriatly.

That's my usual technique for recording my band, but we like big sounding drums.

It's no article but it's a great technique.

The best thing to do is get familiar with the different characteristics of each mic you have, in each common position, with your drummer and his set and do what you both like best. If an article gives some advice and you get the desired results. It's not because the author knew what he was talking about. It's only coincidence