Upgrade existing speakers?

[ascottk]

Here's the speakers I want to upgrade (passive. sealed enclosure). They are neutral sounding and translate very well, but there's some weird phase issues and the bass is weak:

Yamaha NS-A637

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...&CTID=50029000

• Three-Way Acoustic Suspension, Magnetically Shielded Bookshelf
• Woofer = 8 in. Hi-polymer Coated Cone
• Midrange = 4 in. Cone
• Tweeter = 3/4 in. Dome, Ferro-fluid cooled
• Input Power Nominal = 70W, Music Input = 140W
• Frequency Range 90 to 20,000 Hz +/-3 dB

I don't know how accurate the specs are for the original replacements:
Yamaha NS-5 NS5 NS-A636 NSA636 NS-A637 NSA637 Replacement Speaker / Speakers drivers for sale. Used Vintage Yamaha drivers woofer / woofers, mids midrange / midranges tweeter tweeters crossover cross over crossovers overs, cabinets & grills for Yamah

So I want higher resolution with more low end. The intension is to have better mastering capabilities.

The tweeter I'm looking at (revised). Unless I want to modify the enclosure I can't use any of the ribbons, besides that one I was looking at was too big and it didn't handle a lot of power):
Tang Band 28-847SD Shielded Neodymium Dome ($24.59 each)

Parts Express:Tang Band 28-847SD Shielded Neodymium Dome Tweeter
pdf specs:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-822s.pdf

• 80 watts RMS/120 watts max
• Voice coil diameter: 1-1/8"
• Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
• Re: 6.0 ohms
• Frequency range: 1,200-25,000 Hz
• Fs: 600 Hz
• SPL: 90 dB 1W/1m
• Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 2-7/8"
• Cutout Diameter: 2"
• Mounting Depth: 1-7/8"
• Magnet Diameter: 1-7/8".

Midrange:
Dayton RS52AN-8 2" Dome Midrange $40.78

Parts Express:Dayton RS52AN-8 2" Dome Midrange
pdf freq response:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/285-020g.pdf

• 60 watts RMS/90 watts max
• VCdia: 2"
• Impedance: 8 ohms
• Re: 5.4 ohms
• Frequency range: 500-7,000 Hz
• Fs: 325 Hz
• SPL: 91 dB 2.83V/1m
• Dimensions: A: 5-1/8", B: 4-1/8", C: 2-1/8".

Woofer:
HiVi M8N 8" Aluminum/Magnesium Woofer ($41.78 each)

Parts Express:HiVi M8N 8" Aluminum/Magnesium Woofer
PDF Specs:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/297-446.pdf

I'm not too sure about what the Q* specs mean.

• Power handling: 80 watts RMS/110 watts max
• Voice coil diameter: 1-3/8"
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 6.5 ohms
• Frequency range: 29-2,000 Hz *Fs: 29 Hz
• SPL: 86 dB 2.83V/1m *Vas: 1.88 cu. ft.
• Qms: 5.02
• Qes: .50
• Qts: .45
• Xmax: 5.8 mm

Possible crossover:
Dayton XO3W-500/4K 3-Way Crossover 500/4,000 Hz $49.41

Parts Express:Dayton XO3W-500/4K 3-Way Crossover 500/4,000 Hz

Any recommendations or suggestions?

[ascottk]

Anyone?

[tINY]

How are you planning to build a cross-over?

Have you built cabinets before?

I noticed that the woofer you want to use is more efficient than the tweeter you want to use - that's a hard situation to deal with......




-tINY

[ascottk]

Originally Posted by tINY

How are you planning to build a cross-over?

Have you built cabinets before?

I'm hoping to use the existing cross-overs and cabinets. If not, I may need to tweak these ones or find better drivers.

I noticed that the woofer you want to use is more efficient than the tweeter you want to use - that's a hard situation to deal with......

-tINY

It'll be tough to match these components.

Any other suggestions for drivers/components?

[ascottk]

Okay I revised the original post. Added a possible x-over & midrange. Also not considering a ribbon tweeter unless I want to modify my enclosures.

[tINY]

I'd just look at the kits on the Madisound site and be done with it.

Do the cabinets have some sentimental or studio decor value where you don't want to replace them?




-tINY

[jwl]

Sorry but I have to ask.... how's your room? It's possible that the weak low end and the weird phasing issues are at least in part caused by room reflections.

Do you have acoustic treatment installed in your room? If not, I'd consider doing that before you start messing with the speakers, especially if you like the speakers, or more accurately if you know the speakers well, and how they translate.

I'd personally also be more inclined to just get new cabinets rather than tear these apart. You could build/buy some new speakers (Madisound kits are great), and keep these as an NS-10 type "familiar reference that translates well".

[ascottk]

Just so I'm not leaning you guys hanging, here's a repost from SOS (no sentimental value for the enclosures. I figure since I have them already, I might as well use them):

I have auralex 2" & other foam attached to 7 2'x4' panels of SoundChoice 3/4" fiber boards (one above the listening position, four in the corners, two on the walls) as well as two auralex 2" in the curtains, stacked LENRDs (super chunk), & eight MiniFusors on one 2'x4' panel behind the listening position.

I just did a lot testing w/Room EQ & there's severe cancelations between 1 kHz - 3.5 kHz.

I pointed the SPL near the center, then the left speaker, then the right speaker. Threw some auralex panels on the desk with two mixers, in front of the speakers, then tested. Threw the auralex panels over the computer monitors (in between) then tested. Tested @ 75 dB & 83 dB. Tested the speaker w/o the sub (bass is more accurate w/them) which is a cheap 10" Optimus woofer in a small truck enclosure. All with similar results.

The speakers are spaced 3' apart toed into the listening position into an equilateral triangle.

When I pointed the meter to the right speaker, there's a severe dip between 3k and 4k and 10k.

I was looking up the Yamaha NS-A637 parts & there tweeter is an 8 Ω mylar dome. I read that tweeters made of mylar don't do very well. So I think those are the first to go.

I might replace them with the Vifa D26NC55 since those stacked up to some ribbons in the Zaph|Audio testing:
Zaph|Audio

Very smooth response with mild tilt down of a couple dB over it's range. Near perfect CSD without no high frequency garbage. *Very* low HD above 2.5kHz with a mild 3rd order peak at 1.6kHz. Almost a complete lack of tall order HD products. Well built small flange neo with heat sink and excellent internal construction.

Zaph|Audio

This cheap little dome tweeter outperforms everything here except for the B&G Neo3 PDR in the non-linear distortion department. It works well at 2kHz like the B&G, but has ever so slightly higher HD everywhere else. On the other hand, this tweeter beats the Neo3PDR in response smoothness and the resulting smooth CSD.

& the dimensions of this tweeter should fit this enclosure.

The Dayton midrange 2" dome also had a good review:
Zaph|Audio

Excellent performing 2" dome midrange with a very wide, smooth bandwith and low distortion. Can be crossed over relatively high though the breakup will need some attention. Low end distortion is clean, and as a result the lower limit crossover point depends only on how loud the driver will be played. My initial estimate is 500 Hz LR4 or 700 Hz LR2. A conjugate LCR trap will likely have to be used to flatten this driver's impedance. This driver has a well designed motor with faraday shielding.

I also found two 8" woofers at Goodwill ($5.99 each so what the hell . . . ). 4 Ω polypropylene by eclipse. So far they work with that sub pretty well. I'm think of installing bass ports on the back too. Need to find out how to tune those.

[ascottk]

For some odd reason I decided to design my own speakers. I have some experience with wordworking like production in college theater, but nothing as involved as this (I'm not am expert at all!). They came out nicely!

Here are pics of what I call the "Mynamids":


Here's my list of drivers:

• Vifa D26NC55 - 1" textile dome tweeter
• Tangband 50-1426SA - 2" textile dome midrange
• HiVi M8N - 8" aluminum/magnesium woofer

The design is based on some time-aligned and other pyramid designs.

I found a Peavey PV 35XO for $150. It was a pain to go to an active xover because I am using my existing AV receiver & a Griffin Powerwave to power the speakers.

Luckily my receiver accepts multiple inputs (6) except the outputs are configured for a 5.1 setup. So I used my Griffin Powerwave's speaker breakout to power my woofers. It works great except I lost my surround sound. I can regain it with some active monitor speakers since I have six free outputs on my FW interface.

I'm not sure I want to go back to passive! These speakers are getting closer to the way I want them to sound.

Currently crossed over at 300 & a little over 2500. I tried crossing over above 500 (since the Tang Band's Fs is 500) but it sounded terrible.

I listened to a lot of different types of music, it helps to be a graduate of music since we have a lot of listening to do, and everything sounds great!

I spent the first hour with a grin on my face :D These sound a lot more natural than the Yamahas! On Bobby McFerrin's "I Hear Music" I feel it when he's thumping his chest while he's doing his scat thing. I noticed things in Beethoven's 9th Second Mov't I didn't hear before and it's the closet I've been in a recording. Scott A. Wyatt's "On a Roll" (Music from SEAMUS vol. 14), an electronic piece where balls are rolling around all over the place, is a showcase for panning & sound fields that left me grinning even more! Satriani's stuff sounds better than ever, Audio Slave is less harsh, 90's Depeche Mode sounds good, etc.

If I were to do it again, I would add a shelf to separate the tweet/mid from the woofer & have a bigger midrange so I can properly xover around 200-300 Hz. As it is now, I am extremely happy so far! There's a few tweaks to be made but so far so good. I may try to flush mount the tweeter & mid but that may be a little difficult due to the angle between them (I need a skinny router if there is such a thing). Oh yeah, I would use a table saw so I wouldn't have to use so much patch to cover my mistakes! I would use different paint too.

As for the new drivers, even though they're not broken in yet, I think the Vifa & the Tang Band work very well together since both a textile domes and they nearly disappear. Cymbals sound like cymbals without sounding electronic & syllabants are more natural. The HiVi looks pretty cool & so far the lower string section and timpani in symphonies (I almost feel like I'm at the concert) and other bass material sound terrific!

I did a couple of test mixes/masters yesterday & they translate really well!