Anyone noticed a relationship between how a musician mixes and their instrument?

[henryrobinett]

Anyone notice if there's a relationship between how musicians mix and the instrument they play? I mean are the guitars unusually loud or quiet if a guitar player mixed it? Are the frequencies unusually boosted in certain frequencies?
I've been noticing I have a lot of frequencies boosted between 3k and 4.5k and shelved a lot below 150hz and a little below 250 hz. Kind of typical guitar EQ for me sometimes (depending). So I have to fight this automatic tendency. Make sure things are well balanced across the board. But I'm not sure whether what is pleasing to me is because it fits into my normal frequency range.

I have noticed over the years how different musicians hear things differently in other ways. Bass players tend to hear low frequencies better than trumpet players, of course, for instance. Some guitar players have difficulty picking out bass parts of songs.
Just curious what you all may have found.

[Phil Cibley]

Being a pianist, I notice that I tend to pan stereo piano with
the low notes on the left and high notes on the right (from a
player's perspective). Anything else sounds wrong to me.
Phil

[henryrobinett]

Oh yeah, or the tendency I have to mix from the drummmers perspective came initially from a drummer I worked with almost 10 years ago.

[audiothings]

i play some guitars and some keyboards and i program a little. (my partner is the guy whose hands are on the music, i'm more the engineer...).

the parts i play, i process immediately, as my sound as 'the musician'. when i sit down to mix, i'm only thinking of the song, what it needs from the instrument, and how loud and where and how it needs to be, and, of course, if it needs to be (which it very frequently does'nt .

.02,
self.

[henryrobinett]

It's all very subjective, which is the problem of course.. I've never had anyone complain and I've never worried about it. I think my mixes have been sounding good, for the most part, so I'm not overly concerened. But as I said looking at some of my standard eq's I commonly want to push 3k-4.5k. Of course I handle each instrument specifically and overall in the mix. In other words the mixes DO NOT sound pushed in the 3k-5k range, as far as I can tell. I'd need someone else to confirm. And I certainly don't concentrate on the guitar, my instrument more or less than any other instrument. It all depends on the thrust of the song. I'm not sure I'm getting my point across, if indeed there is a point at all . . . or question . . . .

[LTA]

Originally posted by henryrobinett
Anyone notice if there's a relationship between how musicians mix and the instrument they play?

Beyond the obvious "more me" syndrome, i've found that the higher frequency instruments can't hear/understand the low frequency content. Trumpet/guitar/singers tend to "misunderstand" the bass and kick, thinking it is lacking. Oddly, it has two results, either being too much low end or not enough.

Now about panning: This usually is based on panning around the most complicated source (stereo drums). I can go from a drummer's perspective mix to a audience perspective simply by swapping L and R on the master. No need to worry about parts conflicting with the hats and ride that way, if you know what i mean.

I have actually met drummers that do like audience perspective, as they alway wonder what their drums sound like when others are playing them (even if the overheads are right near the drummer's head). Suspension of disbelief, i guess i will call it. Hats on the left sound the same as hats on the right to me, although it affects the interaction with other aspects of a mix. As in, cowbell or tamborine panned to line up with the hats just doesn't work for me. I personally don't care (drums being my second instrument) how drums get panned, as long as everything else is panned accordingly.

I do tend to have the vocal too loud in the beginning, and then will bury it after i learn all the words. As a foundation player at heart, that is the biggest issue i have. If i was a singer, i'd probably just boost vox 6dB from where i could hear them and tell everybody else to go do something unpleasant with themselves.

[scottgibson]

I play the drums a bit and I seriously can't handle hearing the hi-hat coming out of the right speaker or I'll freak out.
I'LL JUST FREAK OUT!!!

It seriously sounds so weird to me, especially when I'm listening to a recording of my own playing. I try to follow along with what I'm playing but its like all of a sudden I'm left-handed! AHH! (I'm a righty in real life)

Being a musician, mixing to the player's perspective just seems more real to me. Perhaps if I were not a musician, an audience's perspective might seem more believable, but I think its just one of the blessings (curses?) musicians face by having to listen to everything with musician's ears, and everything now lying under a giant musical magnifying glass...

Scott

[KingUgly]

The new Van Halen single has the guitars mixed so loud and everything else way low. To call it a "mix" is almost being kind. It all depends on who is calling the shots, but yes, I would say most musicians tend to give their own instrument that little special attention they believe it deserves.

[Jose Mrochek]

(as a musician), I have to trust my mix engineer. That's why I hired him in the first place. If he likes audience or player perspective, I really don't care. Musicians should never comment on a mix, to many opinions will probably hurt a mix rather than help it. aka, trust the guy who has been mixing for the past 15 years with good results. chances are, musicians will never have a non-biased opinion on a mix!

[not_so_new]

At one time I remember reading that if the band is in the room listening back to the mix and everyone is happy with their instrument you need to start over!!! I see the logic to this statement, the job of a ME is not to make everything even in a mix it is to make everything interesting or exciting.

As far as mixing "my" instrument I am mainly a guitar player but I have been playing drums, bass and keys for quite a few years. When mixing guitars I do hear them slightly better because it was the first thing I started playing 20 + years ago. Because of this I tend to do the reverse, I lean on mixing guitars low because I used to play mind games with myself (I like guitar so I know I mix it loud so I must over compensate and mix them down and then...) .

Now what I find best is follow my first instinct, put them at the level I think they should be at and move on. Listen to the whole thing the next day and see what I think with fresh ears.

[henryrobinett]

OK - but how about the relationship between you, your instrument and the frequency curves you tend to gravitate towards?

[Peter Oxford]

Dear henryrobinett,

This is actually a deeply perceptive question, and shows you are thinking about your mixes very intelligently.

Sometimes even excellent musicians just can’t give you exactly what you are looking for (for some extraordinary reason, really good session men sometimes have blank days).

Under such circumstance’s I don’t ever push things ‘too’ far or get heavy with people. I prefer to let them go away, happily thinking all is O.K. Then on the odd occasion I really have to, I might overdub a lead guitar myself, for instance.

Now you’d expect that extra prominence would naturally be given to my part in the mix. But invariably this is not the case. Usually I will actually make my part completely normal in level. If it’s something like a lead guitar that you might expect to stand out more, however, I often make it somewhat quieter than you might expect in the mix. (I think this can work well for lead guitars in my type of music anyway), but I think I try to ‘compensate’ for the ‘tendency toward prominence’ if you follow what I mean. I think it’s almost a psychological game I play with myself.

The funny thing is. When I listen back to older recordings where I know this has happened (I was doing so a few weeks back) the balance on these recordings is always completely spot on.

So I think compensating for an expected tendency (second guessing myself) works for me really well. I’m not sure I would recommend it to anyone else though.

And scottgibson. Just in case you’re interested!

If you ever heard any of Al Scmitt’s recordings, they are ultra realistic, totally authentic, genuine, true, live room sound. He normally lays out the instruments panning them as he actually hears them occurring in the live room for placement. The one exception being that he normally reverses the panning of the drums. Presenting them placed exactly as the drummer himself actually hears his own instrument. So it seems you’re in very good company indeed!

Best Wishes Peter

[Midlandmorgan]

I tend to be overly aware of my own own playing on projects, and often over-compensate by not having enough in the mix...its often difficult to take off the guitarist hat and put on the engineer's...as my brain "re-plays back" the notes I played just a while ago, making my guitar stuff seem louder than it is...

If that makes sense...

[James Lehmann]

Yes, Yes, Yes!

I am forwarding a link to this thread to our guitarist/engineer!