What’s the deal with the mono drum room mic?

[MixShmix]

Will somebody explain this phenomenon to me please. As a mixer, I keep getting projects with a single, mono room/ambience track for the drums. There will be stereo piano, stereo Hammond/Leslie, stereo synthesizers, stereo backing vocals sometimes even stereo guitar, (yeah, that makes a lot of sense!) stereo drums, but then there’s that one, single, lonely drum room track! I’ve read comments on strings in this very forum from those of you who engage in this practice. Please explain!

Most records for the last 30 or 40 years have been released in stereo. TV is now stereo, and often 5.1 surround. There’s even stereo AM radio, although I’ve never personally experienced this curious technology. Humans tend to have two ears. When one is in a natural ambient environment, (like a room where drums are being played) each ear receives ambient sounds slightly differently, creating a stereo effect.

Now, I’m certainly not one to tell anyone how they should record or mix, but it seems to me that the engineer who recorded an album that I just mixed is actually insisting that I mix it his way, with his mono room track down the middle, or off to one side or, I don’t know... something! I really don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to do with it. No matter what I do, it just sounds ridiculous. And forget about getting a nice drum ambience in surround! I usually just turn it off and try to create it artificially.

Do ya think the guy just ran out of mics? I don’t know—it was a pretty big budget album recorded at a big LA studio, so that’s kinda hard to believe. Maybe he just didn’t think it was important enough to waste two mics on. Then why did he record it at all? It was recorded on a popular DAW system, so he couldn’t have been worried about running out of tracks.

Even though I’ve been doing this more years than I care to mention here, I’m the first to admit I don’t know anywhere near everything about recording. One of the reasons I’m still doing it is that I’m always learning new stuff, so please, someone tell me what this is all about!

Thank you very much.

[drBill]

Cause it sounds good. Seriously. One man's rediculous is another man's genius.

???

I like room mics in mono. Especially if they're ribbon mics. If I'm in a big, big room and going for a huge drum sound where I can get some vintage high end tube mics back 20+ feet, I'd probably go stereo. In a medium room I quite like a mono ribbon, dead center in front of the kit, chest heigth, back 6-8 feet. Sweetness.

[Savernake]

Good info. If only I had access to a huge drum room like that!

[kats]

I run alot of verbs in mono too, go figure.

But about the drums, I usually pan my OH's hard L/R. If I bring up a mono room mic "up the gut" it tends to make me less dizzy. I should say that I usually set my OH's up to get the proper width I'm looking for, so the hard L/R thing isn't as drastic as one may think.

[MixShmix]

What I forgot to say, and probably the most important bit is; the mixer can always pan both tracks of a stereo pair to the center, or just use one of them if he prefers that sort of thing. But if it was recorded in mono, the mixer, producer or artist has absolutely no choice. Not very professional, IMHO.

[MixShmix]

Originally Posted by kats

If I bring up a mono room mic "up the gut" it tends to make me less dizzy.

I'm really sorry to hear that stereo ambience makes you dizzy. You might want to see someone about that. Lisa Loeb told me that Rasinettes make her car sick. I suggested she stick with Sno-Caps.

[mynameischance]

Hi MixSchmix,
What I find the room mic works well for is replacing digital verbs or any kind of "fx" verb. Instead, take the room mic and, while eq'ing properly and squashing the "hel ell ell eck" out of it, you essentially allow that distance and room to work as your drum verb. Sounds natural as can be.

I love it because I hate putting verbs on snares. It's a preference thing. Hope this helps!

[squeeks555]

i alawyes use at least one mono drum mic, with lots of compression and some verb, it helps glue the kit togather and give it a tight sound if you use it right. and ive got some great sounds with just front, overhead and back of kit mics.

[Cujo]

For me it is also the faxct that I don't have a great pair of mics for that duty, and also run out of quality pres when tracking drums. I'll add to the collection eventually, but the mono room works for now.

[Watersound]

I do this too but I use a ribbon and usually put it about 2-3 feet from the kick so as to capture mainly kick and snare, and then blend to taste. I've found that it thickens things up quite a bit, but sure it may make more sense to at least have the stereo option- I'm limited on inputs... btw "Woman in Chains" is one of my favorite mixes of all time

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

What I forgot to say, and probably the most important bit is; the mixer can always pan both tracks of a stereo pair to the center, or just use one of them if he prefers that sort of thing. But if it was recorded in mono, the mixer, producer or artist has absolutely no choice. Not very professional, IMHO.

Or, maybe they made a choice during tracking...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

What I forgot to say, and probably the most important bit is; the mixer can always pan both tracks of a stereo pair to the center, or just use one of them if he prefers that sort of thing. But if it was recorded in mono, the mixer, producer or artist has absolutely no choice. Not very professional, IMHO.

YEah, but two mics off to the sides of a kit aren't going to sound like one straight down the middle.....so, your panned to the middle doesn't work for me.

[peeder]

Maybe what will make everyone happy is if recordists start placing a figure-8 "side" mic next to their "mono room" mic and perpendicular to its axis. Then you can have your coveted mono room, Mr. Shmix can recover stereo, and all will be well in the land.

[Vum]

Most releases in the past 20 - 30 years have been in stereo, but it is common to have the drums folded into mono until the chorus or a "big" change occurs. That little mono mic gives depth and be heavily processed to have that "chugging garage door opening a wounded elephant" sound that a lot of rock breaks have.

Check out Suede's "Head Music" (particularly "Asbestos") and any Broken Social Scene album.

[MixShmix]

Originally Posted by drBill

YEah, but two mics off to the sides of a kit aren't going to sound like one straight down the middle.....so, your panned to the middle doesn't work for me.

Fair enough. Then how about recording a stereo pair (if you've got the mics & preamps) in addition to your sacred up-the-middle mic? Just for us idiots (like me) who may want to use them to add a bit of natural-sounding depth to the kit?

You guys seem to be using it to sort of "fatten" the drum sound, which I believe is quite cool. I'm looking to capture a bit of the sound of the actual natural environment the drums were recorded in. It doesn't always get used, but it sure helps quite often.

You've all helped me understand what the mono room mic is for, though, and I'd like to thank you for that!

[norman_nomad]

I usually track with 2 to 3 room mics... but when I get a mix project and there's only 1 room mic I rarely just ditch it! I don't know what you're doing with reverb, but I've never been able to get reverb to sound like a room mic in an actual room. The room mic is so important to painting the overall sound picture of the drum kit... it truly is the "depth" of the sound image... even if that image is mono.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

Even though I’ve been doing this more years than I care to mention here, I’m the first to admit I don’t know anywhere near everything about recording. One of the reasons I’m still doing it is that I’m always learning new stuff, so please, someone tell me what this is all about!

Thank you very much.

There are no rules.

Look at what the Beatles (and others) did when Stereo first came out....panning all drums to one side, etc.

Stereo ambiance isn't just LH and RH....it's down the middle too. You might have a cool stereo field going on with the stereo overheads, along with a bit of room slipping in (depending on how it was set up)...say panned hard LH/RH, yet with a mono room track panned right down the center and mixed in at the right level, can fill out the drum tracks nicely w/o taking too much of the far LH/RH stereo field away from other stereo tracks (like GTR's, etc.). Or like other's mentioned, mono room track down the middle with some stereo verb mixed in....whatever.

Don't forget the center.

There are no rules.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

You guys seem to be using it to sort of "fatten" the drum sound, which I believe is quite cool.!

Nothing is quite fatter than a mono mic down the center. Low end suffers the most with the phasing of multiple mics. Making the most out of both speakers equally (panned center) gets easier lows happening.

Stereo mics panned center never sync the low end like a mono room mic.

But again, there are no rules.

[MixShmix]

Originally Posted by Watersound

btw "Woman in Chains" is one of my favorite mixes of all time

Thanks!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

Fair enough. Then how about recording a stereo pair (if you've got the mics & preamps) in addition to your sacred up-the-middle mic? Just for us idiots (like me) who may want to use them to add a bit of natural-sounding depth to the kit?

Because I don't want an idiot like you (j/k ) screwing up the sound the I intended and the sound that I RECORDED. It's not about "you" as the mix engineer. It's about the artist/producer/engineer's vision. If that's what was recorded, then that's what you get. If you can't make it sound good, pass it on to someone who can catch the vision. It's really pretty simple. For you to call everyone who records a mono room "unprofessional" is pretty unprofessional yourself. Maybe there's something to learn, eh?



bp

[Savernake]

Deal with what they gave you I guess. If you think they're unprofessional for that one thing, then how is the rest of the mix? Will you make it great in the end?

[Peacock]

Lately, I have been using less drum mics. Usually a dynamic on kick and snare with a ribbon in front of the kit. When I mix I use the Ribbon mic as the main sound only pulling up the faders of the kick and snare to clarify the sound. All this in mono. The sound is very good and natural. More simple and better in my opinion.

[thenoiseflower]

hey man, mono room is better than NO ROOM MIC AT ALL. i wont say unprofessional, but, still a heart breaker.


I like mono rooms, and our room is certainly large enough to abuse stereo to its limits, But I still use 1-3 MONO mics. if I want a stereo-e-room sound, its XY, behind the kit.

[thenoiseflower]

hey man, mono room is better than NO ROOM MIC AT ALL. i wont say unprofessional, but, still a heart breaker.


I like mono rooms, and our room is certainly large enough to abuse stereo to its limits, But I still use 1-3 MONO mics. if I want a stereo-e-room sound, its XY, behind the kit.

[MixShmix]

Originally Posted by drBill

Because I don't want an idiot like you (j/k ) screwing up the sound the I intended and the sound that I RECORDED. It's not about "you" as the mix engineer. It's about the artist/producer/engineer's vision. If that's what was recorded, then that's what you get. If you can't make it sound good, pass it on to someone who can catch the vision. It's really pretty simple. For you to call everyone who records a mono room "unprofessional" is pretty unprofessional yourself. Maybe there's something to learn, eh?



bp

Yikes! Sorry, dude!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MixShmix

Yikes! Sorry, dude!

No worries mate! If you get a mono room mic, instead of thinking they were lazy, unprofessional or didn't have the right gear, stop a second and wonder if maybe that's what they wanted. Then, think how you can improve the mix with what they gave you. Think outside the (stereo) box. I bet you'll end up with a better mix!

bp

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by norman_nomad

I don't know what you're doing with reverb, but I've never been able to get reverb to sound like a room mic in an actual room. The room mic is so important to painting the overall sound picture of the drum kit... it truly is the "depth" of the sound image... even if that image is mono.

I somehow think he has a pretty good handle on getting revery to sound like room mics in an actual room.

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by drBill

No worries mate! If you get a mono room mic, instead of thinking they were lazy, unprofessional or didn't have the right gear, stop a second and wonder if maybe that's what they wanted. Then, think how you can improve the mix with what they gave you. Think outside the (stereo) box. I bet you'll end up with a better mix!

bp

I just can't take this anymore. Its killing me!!!!!!

[peeder]

Anonymity is fun!

But seriously, how else can you get an honest read from people? Plus, forum postings as opposed to emails are for everyone's benefit. So it's not like you have to show deference to the master or anything.

And like someone posted a few weeks ago here, "It's the amateur who knows everything, and the professional that is always learning." (I'm an amateur!)

[Protools Guy]

Check out "Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree" on the Monster Ballads Christmas Album. (Razor & Tie records)

I recorded the drums using a mono room mic (Royer-121) panned up the middle.

In my opinion, it added a lot of depth and vibe to the overall drum sound.