Need Snare Sound Help

[dreamaudio]

hi everyone!

so im having a bit of a problem getting the snare sound i need...for a rock project.

I'm using 2 57's...one top/bottom, with phase flipped on one, running the top through a meke purepath made by mr. neve himself.

I can get the EQ'ing close to what I want....but it's lacking a bit of attack, and body...it's very weak compared to the toms(micd with 421's), and the bassdrum(d6 audix, 414 on outside)...I was thinking of using a large diaphram on the top...like a nt2000 for shitz and giggles to see if it would make a difference...but i dunno...any input would be great.. :)

thanks all!
brian.

[Scinx]

What kind of drum are you using, how new are the heads, what kind of heads are on it?

Additionally - how are you placing the mics?

[dreamaudio]

Actually...just figured out the sound by using a Rode NT2, mixed with the 57 on top and bottom...has the crack..and the body...not using too much compression going in...i think compression will do the trick on getting the exact sound we need.

Any comments on how you guys get your big snare sounds would be awesome...

especially on tight snares..how do you keep the crack, with the body...??


thanks.
brian.

[DanV]

Originally posted by dreamaudio

especially on tight snares..how do you keep the crack, with the body...??

MULTS. Compress liberally - then mix that with the dry signal 'till you get the best of both worlds. I once heard someone call this "New York Compression".....wonder why...

[djui5]

Originally posted by dreamaudio
Any comments on how you guys get your big snare sounds would be awesome...

especially on tight snares..how do you keep the crack, with the body...??


thanks.
brian.

First is the drummer, then the snare being used, then the mic choice and position, then the pre-comp/eq (if used) input channel, then multing and eq'ing/compressing in the mix if necessary.

But the biggest thing beside the drummer and the snare is the room......very important to have the right room and placement in that room...

So many variables are what seperates engineers/producers/songs/artists/albums......

[ixnys]

Most of it has to do with the player, snare drum, and tuning. Tune the snare so it's fat...put gels on if you want less crack/ping and strike that mofo hard in the middle.

[DirkB]

Well,

Of course the drum and the player are a big part, but with the snare drum in particular, mixing is a big, big part IMHO. With the snare, I normally have at least one mult, I use compression to get snap, shape transients, use reverb to add tail, use quite some EQ if necessary.

It's really about shaping the sound and see how it blends with the overhead / room mics.

During tracking, if the drummer really hits a decent rimshot, the most important thing is how we tension the snaredrum. I tend to like a very high tension. It's easier to get some meat and body back in the sound that make it crisp if the sound was deeper to start with. New coated ambassador every 10-15 takes or so (depending on drummer) and one single SM57 into a chandler TG2 is all I normally need.

Of course, YMMV.

Greetings,
Dirk

[hammer]

Use the force, I mean room...........

[syra]

I usually spend an hour placing a 57 on the top...less than an inch can make it or break it...many people underestimate how important placement is...down to less than an inch! And of course, every time you use a different snare its a whole different animal...

[natpub]

Try Fletcher's deal of pointing a single 57 (or whatever) at the side of the body, rather than doing the top n bottom thing.

[dreamaudio]

Hey guys thanks so much for the info, i appreciate it, and so do my partners :o)

So the large diaphram(RODE NT2) worked to get that fat body, and fullness, ran through the amek pure path(designed by neve)..tuned that snare down pretty low...and it's rockin. Also used a picolo...and after tuning that down a bit..it had great attack, and great body(weird), without reverb. It's 4am and the session is still going! We are way excited at the sounds we are getting.

Yall should try out that d6 audix, it rocks my world(ran through the avalon 737sp)...mmm and those grace channel strips..so sexy. ;o

oh and pro tools hd3 accel...that's sexy too ;)

thank all.
brian.

[Musiclab]

Originally posted by natpub
Try Fletcher's deal of pointing a single 57 (or whatever) at the side of the body, rather than doing the top n bottom thing.

The thing you have to be careful of is not getting enough of the smack of the stick. What works for me is to put the mic on the side as if I were micing the shell, but raise to mic so its above the rim. Move it down lower if you get too
much of the top head and not enough snare. I prefer to get the snare with one mike and this usually gets it for me. If I do use a mic underneath its because I'm using alot of room and I want to have the option of getting the snares in the sound, otherwise this is my snare technique.

[LTA]

Originally posted by dreamaudio
hi everyone!
I can get the EQ'ing close to what I want....but it's lacking a bit of attack, and body...it's very weak compared to the toms(micd with 421's), and the bassdrum(d6 audix, 414 on outside)...I

Learn to tune your drum. Or tune it if you know how.

If it doesn't have crack, body, and depth as picked up by the overheads, it doesn't have crack, body, or depth that will be picked up by anything other than a trigger and a sampler.




ProTool users fix it in the mix

[DirkB]

Originally posted by LTA
If it doesn't have crack, body, and depth as picked up by the overheads, it doesn't have crack, body, or depth that will be picked up by anything other than a trigger and a sampler.

Not necessarily. A well tuned snaredrum can sound nice and crisp through the overheads, but lack a little snap and punch. A well placed sm57, nicely compressed and perhaps a little eq can go a long way to complementing those overheads.
The overheads always will catch some or a lot of ambience, adding diffuse sound to the direct sound, which can be the reason for lack of snap / puch, but is great for nice depth .

Greetings,
Dirk

If you are going to use a 57, try moving it away from the drum if possible.
I tend to find 57 lacking in the top end and prefer sm. condensers. A 451 to be exact works great for me.
It is easy to take away the crack,snap but, near impossible to create it if it isn't there.

Though it has been stated. the drummer is the biggest part of the equasion. I was getting drum sounds with some friends one time and the guy engineering was a great drummer I know. We were all thinking how bad the kit sounded and that the heads sounded dead, and you name it.....Well, he said "Watch this!" walked into the studio and proceeded to make that kit sound like "SoundGardens Super Unknown" instantly! Bam! Some of the best tones I have ever heard. I was floored.

You can never make up for this with gear.
Well, SoundReplacer comes close. he.he.

D

[LTA]

Originally posted by DirkB
A well placed sm57, nicely compressed and perhaps a little eq can go a long way to complementing those overheads.

Can't argue with that ;) Im still a STRONG supporter of GIGO though. Especially with drum sounds. If you can't get a good snare sound with an sm57 and a small bit of dynamics processing.... (Not that there aren't possibly more appropriate snare mics for the situation of course).