Mixing ITB .. Which outboard??

[dubrichie]

GREAT THREAD!

Peeder and Thrill, thank you both very, VERY much for discussing this topic and please, do continue! perhaps someone like Dan Lavry could bring something to the table? or perhaps not, i certainly cant say!

anyway, this is a major part of why the next thing im going to buy, asap, funds permitting, is a a PT HD rig.

i simply cannot stomach the prospect of wasting any more of my time, particularly when its time that i lose on a paying gig as a professional, on FECKING AROUND trying to pander to native DAWs, FW interfaces and DAMNED computaters as a whole.

true, even HD is not perfect, but it is about as good as it gets for computer-based recording and mixing systems... which are in any way affordable. this also applies to stability and reliability. jayzus i swear i cant wait til i get the damn thing, turn it on and do a days mixing and it just fecking WORKS... as well as anything of its ilk might.

anyhoo, this is also a major reason why the NEXT thing after HD that i am going to buy, asap, funds permitting, is a nice little analog desk. i have her picked out already. Studer 902, teched, checked and loaded up with extra channels to get 32 outs from the DAMNED computation-error machine into an analog mix.

currently accepting donations, encouragements and kicks up the arse!

keep fighting the good fight!

or at least struggling the decent struggle!

[AudioA]

I feel you.

GO RICHIE, GO RICHIE

[rcm]

I work mostly OTB, but I have been doing stuff off and on for 15 years ITB, here is my advice (which has sort of been touched on):

I would invest in one channel of compression that can really do dramatic changes. The Distressor is the first one to come to mind. Something like the Massey plug compressor can do a fair job of doing a little bit of compression, but when you need to do something more extreme to sculpt the sound a hardware box like the Distressor will open up a lot more possibilities and impart more character.

Second would be a match pair of nice colored EQ, like those from Avedis, A Design, Manley, API etc. This is for the same reason as above. Several plug in EQs will do a decent job of small amount of EQ, but for more extreme sculpting or tone tweaking, I find hardware will allow you a wider range of possibilities and impart a bit more bigness, musicality and character on the track (something plugs do not usually do)

You can develop a work flow where the majority of the work is done with your plug ins, but for tracks need more dramatic sculpting use the hardware and print it back to a track (time aligning for latency if needed). I find that the benifits of a great piece of hardware usually outweigh the problems of medium grade conversion

Then on the two buss or if you are doing home brew mastering you can run the whole track through you vibe EQ. A great hardware EQ can really go a long way to imparting a lot of bigness and analog character that people associate with OTB.

[pootkao]

This has been one of the most informative threads I've read here on GS.
You guys have clarified a lot of questions I had.

[h4nc0]

I can't believe that I missed this thread.

[Dirty Halo]

The A-Designs Hammer & SSL G-series EQ out the 2-buss and back in... run your ITB through these two and back in and it's incredible how much width and depth you get back... a good way to try and get that full console sound with a few outboard pieces

The hammer gives you a tube sounds with added harmonic content, beautiful rich EQ and 'magic" while the SSL G-series pulls it together with a real sounding big console 2-buss compressor.

(Of course this is no replacement for a full-on console and hardware, but just these two pieces could take you a long way )

-andrews

[h4nc0]

I just don't see the need for EQing @ 2bus. Why not leave that task to the mastering engineer?

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by h4nc0

I just don't see the need for EQing @ 2bus. Why not leave that task to the mastering engineer?

PLENTY of people do it!

It's a way of going from song to song and getting them to just touch up here and there to sound as perfect a cohesive collection as possible before an ME, which is always the best policy. PLUS, the Hammer in the chain add a euphoric console-esque harmonic content to the material regardless.

-andrews

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

What generally happens in the plug in world is that new plugs are released after the software has been sold so there is no way to update the compensation until a later version is sold with the correct one. Also keep in mind that HD compensation allows compensation up to a certain number of samples and once you pass this point it can't compensate.

And lastly tracking hardware inserts and shifting them back is not the most ideal either. The amount of latency going in and out of a converter is not a whole number but a whole number broken down to sub samples. Unfortunately no DAW that's out there(including PTools) shows a subsample grid display(and we are talking about 4 decimal points). The lowest they show is a 1 sample grid and while this is cool for plug ins its just not as accurate for analog inserts or digital processors.

AMEN!

[raal]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I believe the acceptable number in the analog world its between 6-8 microseconds (what you would get if you paralleled compressed lets say an 1176 on an SSL).

In PT HD going in and out of the converters with the latency compensation engaged at 44.1khz i calculated its off by 19.373 microseconds or .854 samples(this is using the Eventide Precision plug in).

i get the feeling this issue will be resolved pretty soon...