What does it take to get an internship?

[psycho_monkey]

sounds like you've got the right mindset already.

No-one can really tell what the music business will be like in 3 years, given how much it's changed over the last 3.

However, if you can carry on doing what you've been doing, and manage not to sound too pretentious/smart-arse in interviews, you'll be in with a good chance.

You'll still need a lot of luck though.

[lowfreq33]

There are 2 overwhelmong factors. Persistance, and not saying/doing anything stupid. If you don't know, say you don't know. Be humble.

[James Meeker]

What I always look for in an intern is complete selflessness. I don't want to get the vibe that they are interning for anything other than to be the greatest help in the world around the studio.

I hate "can't do" attitudes unwilling to go the extra twenty miles. I hate interns that have to be told anything twice. I hate people that don't triple check all the details. I hate interns that talk--especially talk to clients. I hate interns that act like it isn't a divine blessing to be cleaning the studio's toilets or taking out the trash. I hate interns that expect to be taught ANYTHING until they've proven their worth. I hate interns that don't pick up the phone no matter what time of day that I'm calling. I hate interns with wives or girlfriends that call the studio. I hate interns that aren't willing to take any abuse, travel any distance, or endure any hardship in order to learn what it takes to do this job.

I guess I'm sort of demanding. Hee. I used to be nice to interns but I found out that wasn't doing them ANY good. They are there to help, and maybe if they're lucky, to learn. If they aren't making my life easier they are serving no purpose at the session and should be sent packing.

I'd be interested to know if my attitude is totally off base or not.

[Akoppenheffer]

I don't know where you're looking to intern at, but in Nashville, it's kind of tough to get an internship if you do not have school credits. After I finished my internship, I wanted to get another internship to keep pursuing the career. Every studio I went to asked me if I had school credits, and I did not. And they said, "Well, we are not going to pay you and if you do not have school credits, you cannot be here due to insurance regulations." It really sucked. I guess you could get into a smaller studio, as they don't really care too much but I was looking at A list studios and they gave me a hard time. I agree with the others though, you're on the right track, just stay on it and get yourself established. Learn as much as you can. I wish I would have spent my school money on gear and still had the internship of course. Good luck!

[James Meeker]

Oh, by the way, getting an internship is vaguely competitive at any good studio. I know our studio won't look at a candidate that isn't graduating or a graduate from a major recording program. Even then you have to impress the studio manager to the degree that you aren't a moron.

I'd say that it's a safe bet the casual stuff you are doing currently isn't going to get you in the door to any serious studio for an internship. Best start saving those pennies and go to Berklee!

I don't know, I never went to school or interned any place. I just kind of ended up here.

[Sigma]

AURAL SEX

[seen]

Wow, that is disappointing to learn that I may have to get a degree from a recording school. I had wanted to get a business/economics-type of degree... And then still have that "real" degree in case I decided, for some reason, that I wanted a more conventional type of job. Would it be possible to bypass that requirement if I worked hard and got well-established in the area doing local stuff, and then looked for an internship?

[TREMORS]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I don't know, I never went to school or interned any place. I just kind of ended up here.

With all due respect (seriously) why would you treat them that way if you never did it yourself? Share your secrets!
Many people here have suggested that a recording program often ISNT the best way.
I interned for awhile. I can answer the phone. I can scrub toilets. I can do all that you suggest. I spoke only when spoken too. I get it. I've had an engineer let me do some edits and basic mixing and EQ...then he went and changed it all...and, then admitted mine sounded better. (he is a great guy, by the way)
I know that doesnt mean a thing, either

But, not everyone can work for free, you know? Its not a matter of sacrificing to prove you really want to do it, and handle it. It's a matter of needing to pay rent and buy gasoline
Arent you better off buying gear and trying to freelance and do it yourself? If noone is going to give you a shot? If you can bring bookings/clients to the studio as a freelancer, isnt that what the owner wants?
I'd do most anything short of something illegal for a job with audio...I love it that much. I'd mute tom mic tracks or do vocal edits or set up mics or scrub the toilet and gopher all damn day. I just cant do it for free more than the occasional weeknight and weekends. And, even then...wouldnt I be better off learning at home with my gear? Since i'd be "lucky" to actually learn anything??

Didnt mean to hijack the thread...
I'd really love to hear any suggestions. Just give up??
PM me.

And to the original poster, I think you have a very strong background already. I wish I was so sure and confident at 15! Good luck to you.

-D

[rara114]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

There are 2 overwhelmong factors. Persistance, and not saying/doing anything stupid. If you don't know, say you don't know. Be humble.

We just got an Intern from Sam Ash Music . This guy was persistant and he actually ended up helping us out when we got stuck on a project. We said "you're in"

Its really about the wanting to learn and the wanting to get the experience rather than the bragging rights or studio time you'll be getting.

Positive attitude, professionalism, and the desire to want to learn.

[basskater87]

treating interns like crap is wrong in my opinion.

If they are stupid, rude, don't check details, create problems instead of fix them, and just generally suck........it's your own fault for hiring them in the first place. I believe in second chances but fire em if they suck.

To me, interns are there to learn, make coffee, and just be another cool person to hang with. If they get paid thats wonderful, but if not, I don't think they should be expected to be there 24/7. At that point it should be their free will when they want to show up. Otherwise you're just screwing them over in my opinion.

Those ideas might go against the conventional old way of how to treat interns, but they're people too, and everyone has to start somewhere.

[seen]

Originally Posted by TREMORS

Many people here have suggested that a recording program often ISNT the best way.

This is why I was disappointed to hear that many studios require a degree. I have seen threads on this forum before where it makes audio schools seem as if they are not very helpful in the long run... and if you think about it, it is a risky decision: by going to audio school, one is limiting their career choices to an industry that (correct me if I'm wrong) is extremely competitive. Furthermore, couldn't one learn the same things that are taught in the recording schools just from reading and getting real-world experience? Personally, I would rather go to a school that teaches me about business so that I can start my own studio, and then have the knowledge to run the studio effectively (business-wise)... rather than going to audio school and then not having business knowledge.

[jval]

I'm coming up to the end of a 6 month internship at a major commercial studio. I get paid $10/hour for 40 hours through a gov't program that subsidizes 60% of my wage.
I did not go to school for audio recording - i had opted to start my own small project studio and learn on my own instead. I got the job after a series of emails, calls, and short inteviews. It seemed like it was mainly up to the head engineer to decide who he wants and not the owner, which makes sense.
He told me that he doesn't care whether or not the person went to school - the main thing he looks for is simply whether or not he gets a good vibe from the person and can get along with them.
I have to do a fair amount of grunt work when it's slow, but overall i spend more time in the studio and have run a few smaller sessions on my own.
The owner is rude, abrasive and verbally abusive to every employee - hard to deal with, especially after my commute which can be up to 2 hours. I work weekends whenever there are sessions booked (no extra pay), and have worked weeks of 12-18+ hour days when the big names are in. It's been tough, and i've realized that this isn't the place for me for various reasons, but i guess i've learned some things and it's been worth the experience. (But i do still learn more working at my own studio...)
So i guess that's a long winded explanation of my opinion, which is that you don't need school, and you should get some stuff and learn as much as you can on your own. Keep your eyes and ears open for a good internship, but don't make that your one and only goal.

[AndyUF2]

Hi everyone....long time lurker, first time poster.

I was motivated to sign up after seeing this post.

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I hate interns that talk--especially talk to clients.

What if clients talk to them?

I hate interns that act like it isn't a divine blessing to be cleaning the studio's toilets or taking out the trash. I hate interns that expect to be taught ANYTHING until they've proven their worth.

Well, it ISN'T a divine blessing....because scrubbing toilets and taking out trash only makes one better at...well, scrubbing toilets and taking out trash. That you then DON'T start off the relationship with an openness towards teaching implies to me that you view them as free labor to be exploited.

I hate interns that aren't willing to take any abuse, travel any distance, or endure any hardship in order to learn what it takes to do this job.

While everyone has to pay their dues on the way up, I find it puzzling that someone should have to put up with (your words) "abuse." Frankly, I don't find cruelty towards the hired help to be conducive to a strong work environment, and honestly, I don't know anyone else who does. That you feel it is necessary to "learn what it takes to do the job" is contradictory to your prior paragraph, which stated in no uncertain terms that your not interested in teaching anyway.

They are there to help, and maybe if they're lucky, to learn. If they aren't making my life easier they are serving no purpose at the session and should be sent packing.

I'd be interested to know if my attitude is totally off base or not.

Translation: I'm only interested in interns serving as, primarily, unpaid free labor. I use the term intern to suggest some sort of apprenticeship and avoid a visit from my state's labor bureau and the child exploitation investication division of my local police department.

No offense, man, but really, if you want someone to take out the trash, them simply hire a handyman. To hire interns only to abuse them is sadistic at best, borderline illegal at worst.

[AndyUF2]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I don't know, I never went to school or interned any place. I just kind of ended up here.

And here's the kicker - you imply here that you didn't have to go through that yourself!!!!!!!!!

Wow....

[Jules]

click on the TAG at the botom of the page marked internship - that will link to a lot of good info on the subject

[Classic]

seen,

Sounds like you have the right attitude for an internship, and that's most of it.

Once you get to college age, though, most studios will look for school credit. And most will not pay you anything.

You seem to have a good sense of business. Why not get a small recording setup and start recording now? After a few years, you may find that you can just start your own. The first album I ever recorded was one of the biggest learning experiences of my career and that was after going to school for recording.

[Mafiso]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I guess I'm sort of demanding. Hee. I used to be nice to interns but I found out that wasn't doing them ANY good. They are there to help, and maybe if they're lucky, to learn. If they aren't making my life easier they are serving no purpose at the session and should be sent packing.

I'd be interested to know if my attitude is totally off base or not.

I think you are totally off base. Sure interns should work hard, and do as they're asked, and not expect handouts. However, you also have to consider what exactly you're offering them if they do work their ass off.

In your case...its not much. OOoo, You can maybe have a low paying job at a studio in Cleveland.(big deal) You could have this attitude if you engineered some place in LA, NY, or Nashville...but Cleveland...NO!

I grew up in Cleveland. I was in a couple bands, recorded at a number of studios. Not Lava, although we considered it for one project. And from what i can tell, you just CANT demand that much.

I am going to Berklee, and will be graduating with a dual degree in MP&E and Music synth. If I decide that a studio internship is the direction I want to head in, I will have no problem getting coffee, doing janitorial work, and keeping my mouth shut for the most part. However, if I am expected to do it like its the greatest privilege in the world...then screw it...there are more fun things to waste my time with.

And I hope any reasonable person would think the same.

(And I'm sure as hell never thinking about recording LAVA again if thats how you treat kids like me)

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Jules

click on the TAG at the botom of the page marked internship - that will link to a lot of good info on the subject

[poncival]

You don't necessarily need an internship to have a good career but it's a good way to get your feet wet and get the feel for how a "real studio" really works on the day-to-day basis and the insights you can gain in that experience are priceless. Most of what you learn may be less technical and more life experience/ personal relations type things. Our studio pretty much only takes interns from the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in Tempe, AZ which is a great program but like any program, it is what you make of it. That is to say, hard work and dedication and no audio education is usually better than lots of education and a "OK I'm ready, give me a project" attitude. But there are exceptions, sometimes we will take interns who are just taking a couple recording classes or who are not in school but show an unusual usefulness.

At your age I would suggest first and foremost, keeping at it, record every day and learn something new every day. Gearslutz is great but as a broad generalization this board approaches things from a "what should I buy to make my recordings better" frame of mind (flame suit on!) which is appropriate for the forum but isn't necessarily the right approach in real life. It sounds like you have a system together that you can do some work with. Going out and getting clients and getting them into your studio and working as much as you can for cheap (increasing the rates only when you have too much business to handle) will be the best life experience for you. As time goes by, you'll be making a name for yourself, learning something from every client (even the ones that seem like they are idiots can teach you a lot about yourself and about how to approach a session, work with "talent" etc). Then by the time you're ready to go to college you will know what you really need or whether you are still feeling like you need something to fall back on.

One more thing, despite all you may hear to the contrary, you've got the right idea about getting familiar with Pro Tools. It may seem weird and awkward at first but love it or hate it, there's a reason why you think the majority of major studios use Pro Tools... "they do!" You can have all the chops in the world and make great sounding recordings on Cubase or whatever but if you want to get a regular gig at a studio that attracts major labels and world class talent, you'd better be able to sit down at a Pro Tools rig and at least know your way around enough to make new tracks, do some basic editing etc. You can learn all that stuff on the cheapest LE rig you can get your hands on, and keep the manual in the bathroom and make a habit of reading it all the way through at least once and trying something new every day and incorporating it into your routine.

Most importantly, hang in there and don't let anybody tell you "you can't do that" because they're wrong, and probably jealous... I have been earning a living recording music (well, I worked at a music store off and on up until about 10 years ago when I started working at the Saltmine, but mostly for the cheap deals and the walk-ins who say "do you know anywhere I can record my songs") for 16 years now and the hardest part about it in my opinion is keeping your chin up when things get rough (getting stiffed on the bill, clients demanding perfection from you when they SUCK etc) and never giving up no matter what your family, girlfriend, wife, studio owner etc. tell you. Well, that and showing up for those 9AM sunday sessions that you just can't avoid sometimes...

Good luck!

John

[dyoll]

Diversify your knowledge in a variety of DAW's. The more DAW's you master the more dangerous you will be. A cheap way to get into Pro Tools world right now is go the M-audio route. It's sounds like your well on your way into the business.

Good Luck

[jhg]

Not sure where you are located, local studio scene, etc.

When you are able to go out and do the internship gig full time, have some money to help get by while working full time for little if any pay. I had a great experience where I interned, and worked hard enough that the studio owner started to pay me. It was totally worth it, I busted ass, learned a hell of a lot.

I guess the shortest answer to the initial question is: A great attitude. That'll get you further than any recording school.

Best of luck!

[vintagelove]

For now practice your craft, when college time comes, take out college loans and buy the best setup around, and cut every neck in town. Be smart get a degree in buisiness, or anything to fall back on, you may burn out someday and turn your intrests elsewhere, good luck

[James Meeker]

Wow, I guess my opinion is unpopular around here.

I'd be curious to see what everyone else thinks about how interns should be treated and so forth. What intrigues me is the people that disagree the strongest with me seem to have the least amount of experience in this field. I wonder why that is?

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by seen

Wow, that is disappointing to learn that I may have to get a degree from a recording school. I had wanted to get a business/economics-type of degree... And then still have that "real" degree in case I decided, for some reason, that I wanted a more conventional type of job. Would it be possible to bypass that requirement if I worked hard and got well-established in the area doing local stuff, and then looked for an internship?

DUDE, GET A BUSINESS / ECONOMICS DEGREE...

DON'T LISTEN TO THESE FOOLS....


you're obviously MUCH smarter, and at a younger age -
you may VERY well be able to take advantage of this,
thinking about BASIC needs (things VERY few musicians / music industry folks
tend to think about AT ALL).

Recording schools are a MONEY pit....VERY few end up making
good livings (versus business school graduates)...


i mean PLEEEEZE....it's not even CLOSE...


listen to your gut....why give your money to a school that hires
mostly tangencially professional staff of teachers?

such BS.....unbelievable.



.e

.

[RockDog]

Originally Posted by seen

Hi,

I am 15 years old, and for as long as I can remember I have always wanted to pursue a career in music production. I do know that I will need to get an internship sometime to get good experience in how recording is done professionally. However, I don't know what studios look for when taking interns. Right now I have some stuff under my belt...

I started a DJ business for a few years when I was 11-14ish and gigged around - it was run as if it was a business (minus the taxes and such), in that I got paid and made clients sign contracts; I did a radio show on local access television from when I was 12-13; I recorded local bands when I was 12-14 (haven't done any bands recently, have just recorded myself) and when I was 11 I recorded rap songs of friends since all I had was a condenser mic at that point. I play in my high school marching band (drums and mallet instruments), know basic music theory and how to read music (though it takes me some time - I can't sight read), and play drumset and dabble in other instruments... If I record bands throughout high school, and also work more on my music-reading ability, would this be enough to get an internship at a studio? I use Cubase, should I switch to Pro Tools LE so I would be more aware of what's going on (I take it that the majority of studios use Pro Tools)?

your 15, your mind is like a sponge!! your the perfect age to start and goin by wat you said you've already done your destined to become a great engineer
keep trying studios dont give up
be as keen as mustard and always listen and someone will see how passionate you are
your lucky your 15, its an advantage to know wat you want to be in life already
also yes pro tools le would be better you'll know the ins an outs of it in months

[James Meeker]

I will add in my two bits and state that I think recording schools are pretty worthless. I never went to one, never saw the need. The only way to really learn this job is to read, research, experiment and keep working at it every single day. Get obsessed.

Hit it hard enough that you can skip the whole intern thing. There's no reason to intern if you can get clients and have the skills to make a record.

[Mark Gifford]

Originally Posted by seen

Wow, that is disappointing to learn that I may have to get a degree from a recording school. I had wanted to get a business/economics-type of degree... And then still have that "real" degree in case I decided, for some reason, that I wanted a more conventional type of job. Would it be possible to bypass that requirement if I worked hard and got well-established in the area doing local stuff, and then looked for an internship?

Two big things here:

First, if you get a business degree you'll quickly understand why audio engineering is one of the worst choices a person can make, right now. Right behind being a movie star or an NFL player.

Second, the fact that you feel you need to get a degree as the dreaded "something to fall back on" probably disqualifies you from ever achieving the first goal. When Tom Petty's dad suggested college, "In case this music thing doesn't work out," his reply was "It's not going to NOT work out - this is what I'm going to do, no need for a backup plan." That's the kind of drive/mindset you need to have to achieve success in this business. Everyone you're seriously competing against will have this attitude, and most of them will be better than you. The ones that don't will be gone shortly.

I was head engineer at a pretty busy mid-lavel room for 8 years. In that time, we had dozens of interns. 2 had any potential - one is now working there, another went to school for recording and is now getting into audiology. Another guy w/a great attitude, but who came in above the intern level, is now working at Mercenary w/Fletcher. That leaves one, out of dozens who came through, who is actually engineering.

They were immediately allowed into sessions, could come in any time and use any gear they wanted and the owner would hook them up w/small demo projects, so they could get session practice, as soon as they learned the basics.

We were always very nice to them, but the actual amount of teaching was probably less than they hoped, because I wouldn't slow down or interrupt a session so they could practice doing overdubs, etc. Not fair to clients.

I'd stay and talk gear/music/recording until the cows came home, after the session, however.

MG

[Sqye]

sage advice, MG.

.

[James Meeker]

My opinion is that the real purpose of an internship is to prove your worth with a selfless attitude, strong work ethic and good personality that some engineer will take you under their wing and really show you the ropes, maybe make you their assistant.

I'm tough on guys that aren't serious, but I do go out of my way to help the guys that are honestly trying. Unfortunately only about 1 in 20 guys are really that motivated to do this work.