THE piano synth/sample lib.?

[manthe]

I don't do too many recordings that *really* feature piano. I've done plenty that have a piano in the mix, but always accompanied.

At any rate. I have and usually use NI Akoustik Piano. I am not crazy about it. Especially when isolated and listened to with good headphones. The warts come out!

I also have the piano patches on my Roland RS9, as well as the pianos in Dimension Pro.

None of them *really* sound great to me.

From a lot of what I read, Ivory is supposed to be great. Unfortunately, I have never been able to demo it.

Recording a real piano is not really an option for me in my small studio. I do have an upright in the living room. It could use some TLC and the acoustics in there are not optimal. Plus, there is no guarantee and car wont come by and honk or one of my dogs won't bark during that 'magic take'

So, I'm really just looking for some opinions on a great piano synth/sample player/etc.

[Whitecat]

I personally love Pianoteq. It needs a bit of tweaking straight out of the box but that's part of the fun. The 8mb installer footprint is the other part of the fun!

[diatonic]

...

[Askin]

manthe,
I own and have used Ivory, The Grand 1+2 (from Steinberg), pianoteq, Boesendorfer 290 (by EastWest), Vertikal (Sampletekk) and some other (smaller) sample libraries. Here are some remarks about these:

Boesendorfer: I never really liked it.

pianoteq: I agree with terminal3 that this one is a lot of fun. If you like tweaking parameters, unique sounds and also old piano models ('Hammerklavier' etc.), you should really try it . Sounds like no other piano library. And it's cheap and small... (This is not a sample player, but uses physical modeling)

The Grand 1+2: I liked these very much until i got Ivory. Although I still like the pedal, sustain sounds and resonance a lot. But I always had problems with it (glitches and drop outs), as AU plug-in it was always unpredictable.

The Ivory: Has become my main grand piano plug-in. It needs a lot of hard disk space. But sounds great. I would always recommend this one.

Vertikal: i use this one, whenever I don't want to use a grand piano. It's a great sounding upright piano - very nicely recorded (with realistic release samples).

cheers

[jumpnyc]

I like the new piano in Stucture - in the Goliath sample library. Really nice with verb and eq adjustments right on the sampler.

I also got a lot of use out of the analog tape piano sample in Kontact 3

[manthe]

Originally Posted by terminal3

I personally love Pianoteq. It needs a bit of tweaking straight out of the box but that's part of the fun. The 8mb installer footprint is the other part of the fun!

I've heard great things about it. Would you say that it is 'feature instrument' worthy?

[manthe]

HUGE help! Thanks!

Originally Posted by Askin

manthe,
I own and have used Ivory, The Grand 1+2 (from Steinberg), pianoteq, Boesendorfer 290 (by EastWest), Vertikal (Sampletekk) and some other (smaller) sample libraries. Here are some remarks about these:

Boesendorfer: I never really liked it.

pianoteq: I agree with terminal3 that this one is a lot of fun. If you like tweaking parameters, unique sounds and also old piano models ('Hammerklavier' etc.), you should really try it . Sounds like no other piano library. And it's cheap and small... (This is not a sample player, but uses physical modeling)

The Grand 1+2: I liked these very much until i got Ivory. Although I still like the pedal, sustain sounds and resonance a lot. But I always had problems with it (glitches and drop outs), as AU plug-in it was always unpredictable.

The Ivory: Has become my main grand piano plug-in. It needs a lot of hard disk space. But sounds great. I would always recommend this one.

Vertikal: i use this one, whenever I don't want to use a grand piano. It's a great sounding upright piano - very nicely recorded (with realistic release samples).

cheers

[mds]

Ivory is the best one I've used. Responds well to dynamics, gets a nice 'wood' sound, and gets the harmonics right.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

I like the new piano in Stucture - in the Goliath sample library. Really nice with verb and eq adjustments right on the sampler.

I also got a lot of use out of the analog tape piano sample in Kontact 3

Have you tried any of the Sampletekk samples in Kontakt?

The poster above who recommended it did me a big favor. I'd never heard of them before. I do not own any of the platforms for which it is compatible, though. But, that is not a big deal. I've been thinking of buying one anyhow. This might drive that decision...if I don't go with Synthogy's product.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by mds

Ivory is the best one I've used. Responds well to dynamics, gets a nice 'wood' sound, and gets the harmonics right.

Thanks! Harmonics is where Akoustik really falls apart! The dynamics are fine and the 'wood' sound is fairly achievable, given the tweak-ability...but the harmonics drive me nuts some times!

[diatonic]

...

[Askin]

Originally Posted by mds

Ivory is the best one I've used. Responds well to dynamics, gets a nice 'wood' sound, and gets the harmonics right.

I agree. The depth of the velocity layers is great and gives the player a lot of possibilities to show subtleties and nuances.
Although the Sampletekk stuff looks interesting too (I just had a look at their web site). I will check them out...

[Askin]

Originally Posted by manthe

HUGE help! Thanks!

you're welcome!

[jumpnyc]

SO interesting. As a classically trained pianist, I thought Ivory sounded nothing like the real thing when I demo'd it. I guess I need to try it again. Pianotek looks cool too.

[Askin]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

SO interesting. As a classically trained pianist, I thought Ivory sounded nothing like the real thing when I demo'd it. I guess I need to try it again. Pianotek looks cool too.

It needed some tweaking and adjustments of some parameters like resonance, hammer sounds, pedal sound, EQ, ambience, etc. but then i got it to work quite well (for my taste).
The resolution they used to sample that instrument is huge. 10 velocity layers, all in all almost 40 GB of samples.

[jumpnyc]

Just as a quick aside - I just worked on a soundtrack with a concert pianist who was very happy with the samples from Goliath in Structure.....

[Askin]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

Just as a quick aside - I just worked on a soundtrack with a concert pianist who was very happy with the samples from Goliath in Structure.....

interesting! but Structure is only for PT users only, right?
bummer - i just left the digidesign road...

[jumpnyc]

yes but Goliath is a sample library - I think it works with other samplers. I just happen to use Structure because it is so integrated with Pro Tools - just makes my life easier.

[Askin]

i see - i will check it out then. i thought it was some sort of library that works only with Structure. something like a Giga Studio library which cannot be read by other samplers.
thanks for the info!

[manthe]

I have a SERIOUS decision to make here...soon. The problem with all of this stuff is, there really isn't any way to demo it. That really scares me!

I am tracking a very important 'piano piece' right now. Important being relative, of course. But, to the project I'm working on, this song is essential and it clearly and plainly features piano.

We've begun tracking already. We are using NI Akoustik Piano for tracking right now. We have completed 2/3 of the Piano parts. We can obviously run the MIDI files against any synth. I am STRONGLY considering Ivory right now. But I am still open. It would be less of an investment in terms of money, time and resources over buying and learning a sampler platform, then pouring through libraries and finding the right one. I could be going about this all wrong and that scares me.

In case it helps any one with suggestions; this piece requires a warm, woody, intimate sound. I am not necessarily looking for a big, grand-piano sound here. I don't technically care if the samples are from a grand, it just has to sound as described above.

Don't get me wrong here, NI's synth isn't bad. We spent a lot of time going through each piano and tweaking the various settings. Ultimately, it keeps coming back to the subtle nuances. Each patch seems to have some flaw or another that starts to annoy us after a short time. Right now, we are using the upright patch with the 'lid mostly closed', a completely flat EQ curve and various other tweaks. This is the best we've been able to do...but there is still a strange 'ring' in the decay of some of the notes that is driving us CRAZY.

Anyhow, thanks for the help so far!

[Askin]

Mike,
did you check the synthogy website? You can find some nice demos there

for example:
http://www.synthogy.com/demo/Aria.mp3

i couldn't find any demos for the Goliath sample library which jumpnyc mentioned. I couldn't even find it on the EastWest website.

Good luck!

[initialsBB]

If you sent me a midi file I could run it through the Rain Piano, Vertikal Pop and the Emperor Piano. I don't know how much that would help but at least you might be able to eliminate a few of the options.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

If you sent me a midi file I could run it through the Rain Piano, Vertikal Pop and the Emperor Piano. I don't know how much that would help but at least you might be able to eliminate a few of the options.

I would be in your debt! I will try to PM you later today or tomorrow to arrange that, if you do not mind. I can sent you a clip from the current project!

Thanks!!!

[Farm sounds]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

Just as a quick aside - I just worked on a soundtrack with a concert pianist who was very happy with the samples from Goliath in Structure.....

Do you mean Goliath from eastwest? I didn't think that was out yet. Or did you mean Collosus?

[peeder]

We were just talking about this and I argued in favor of Art Vista Virtual Grand. I own or have demoed most of the rest.

Purgatory Creek

And click "Digital Piano Shootout" to hear one take on all these.

[initialsBB]

Now that's a shootout.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Askin

Mike,
did you check the synthogy website? You can find some nice demos there

for example:
http://www.synthogy.com/demo/Aria.mp3

i couldn't find any demos for the Goliath sample library which jumpnyc mentioned. I couldn't even find it on the EastWest website.

Good luck!

I did go and listen to those. They sound great. I am just worried about how it will translate to my project. The samples from the NI site sound pretty good too. In fact, I do not hear some of the same, annoying things in the NI samples on their site that I hear in my studio (listening with the same system!). It leads me to believe that their samples have been 'mixed'

[Askin]

very impressive collection...!