Avedis MA5 or A2D - Preamp flavor over conversion?

[The Marrvel]

I'm currently recording through a Shure SM7 > Yamaha i88x. The preamps are super clean but I have no idea how the converters measure up.

My primary focus right now is vocals. I'm really after the Neve sound, so I've been set on the Avedis MA5 along with some sort of 500 rack. ~$1300

However, the MA5 has no DI and I love the idea of tracking my MPC through the A2D with dual channels, DI's, AND great conversion. Plus I know the API pre is no slouch. ~$1700

Price differences aside, which would purchase would benefit my overall sound? I want a Neve sounding pre but does that preference outweigh dual API's and better conversion?

[aermotor]

Screw no DI on the MA5, use a DI box, then you're truly going through the signal path. Convertors aren't going to change/color your sound as much as you want if at all, get the MA5.

[Nu-tra]

I don't like di inputs on pres. I like external ones like the radial jdi!

[The Reel Thing]

why are you talking burgers if you want a steak?
if you want a Neve sounding pre, my tip is: get a Neve pre.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by aermotor

Screw no DI on the MA5, use a DI box, then you're truly going through the signal path. Convertors aren't going to change/color your sound as much as you want if at all, get the MA5.

+1

[peeder]

A lot of the "Neve sound" is the EQ...since you're considering $1700 API why not go whole hog and procure a LTD-1. The EQ is pure sex. It's more of a tone control really, you just shape things musically with it. Your SM7 will love that EQ, and there's a fatass DI onboard.

Avedis makes an EQ too, with fewer bands, and it plus the MA5 plus a rack is around the price of the LTD-1. And I would wager the LTD-1 is a more authentic 1073 though I haven't tested them all.

I have said elsewhere that I don't really consider API a vocal preamp, but the LTD-1 is godlike on vocals. I have both of these units here at the moment. People do use APIs on vocals though.

[gollumsluvslave]

I love the idea of tracking my MPC through the A2D with dual channels, DI's, AND great conversion. Plus I know the API pre is no slouch. ~$1700

All my synths and bass go through my A2D instrument input, gain and 2:1 tranny tap to taste.

Awesome stuff, especially for phat low end.

[The Marrvel]

Well, it seems like most of you think I should lean towards the MA5 for vocals. Can I have some more opinions on A/D conversion? I was under the impression that differences in converters would just as audible as differences in preamps.

[hurricaneE]

Conversion definitely makes a difference, but the difference between Neve and API, esp. on vocals, is gonna be considerable. I think the a2d converters are fantastic, but I use my Portico on vocals (I do use the a2d DI). -E

Originally Posted by The Marrvel

Well, it seems like most of you think I should lean towards the MA5 for vocals. Can I have some more opinions on A/D conversion? I was under the impression that differences in converters would just as audible as differences in preamps.

[DanGo]

I just bought 2 Avedis MA5s and am loving them. I do a lot of drum programming, in the box, and just for kicks, I ran my drums out through the Avedis pres and back into ProTools. Made a huge difference. Avedis can provide you with an xlr type of barrel to correct the impedance and allow you to do things like run your drum machines through the pres...

I have actually recorded everything but vocals through the MA5s so far, but I can definitely say, there's nothing this preamp doesn't improve the sound of.

Regarding DI's, just get a Radial JDI and you're all set.

Regarding converters, I am currently using a Digi 002 Rack and had been considering either getting an Apogee of some sort or doing the Black Lion Mod. But with these new preamps, I will hold off on that, since my sound has been vastly improved. You know what they say: garbage in; garbage out...and the flip side is, if you have good sounds going in, it's gonna sound better coming out, too. I am sure there are better converters out there than DIGI's, but if the end result sounds good to you and/or your clients, then it's not a necessity (though it might be nice...I'm sure I'll be going down that path sometime!!).

[The Marrvel]

Originally Posted by DanGo

I just bought 2 Avedis MA5s and am loving them. I do a lot of drum programming, in the box, and just for kicks, I ran my drums out through the Avedis pres and back into ProTools. Made a huge difference. Avedis can provide you with an xlr type of barrel to correct the impedance and allow you to do things like run your drum machines through the pres...

I have actually recorded everything but vocals through the MA5s so far, but I can definitely say, there's nothing this preamp doesn't improve the sound of.

Regarding DI's, just get a Radial JDI and you're all set.

Regarding converters, I am currently using a Digi 002 Rack and had been considering either getting an Apogee of some sort or doing the Black Lion Mod. But with these new preamps, I will hold off on that, since my sound has been vastly improved. You know what they say: garbage in; garbage out...and the flip side is, if you have good sounds going in, it's gonna sound better coming out, too. I am sure there are better converters out there than DIGI's, but if the end result sounds good to you and/or your clients, then it's not a necessity (though it might be nice...I'm sure I'll be going down that path sometime!!).

Thanks for that DanGo. I'm definitely leaning towards the MA5 as long as I can get my hands on one in the next few weeks. I guess I'll have to track the MPC double mono and align because I can't afford 2 channels right now. The A2D seems like a really nice all-in-one setup in a single rack space, but this MA5 seems like the right pre for my vocals. I'm going to focus on getting the best sound for now.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by The Marrvel

Thanks for that DanGo. I'm definitely leaning towards the MA5 as long as I can get my hands on one in the next few weeks. I guess I'll have to track the MPC double mono and align because I can't afford 2 channels right now. The A2D seems like a really nice all-in-one setup in a single rack space, but this MA5 seems like the right pre for my vocals. I'm going to focus on getting the best sound for now.

To make life harder for you, I generally prefer the Neve sound for vocals, but on a dance thing I just decided to use the A2D instead! It needed the crisp articulation and punch of the fast API pres to cut through.

Since you're using MPCs, you might be best off getting the A2D...you can heat them up through the pres and the converters will be a huge difference maker for you. (It's hard to tell what people are doing with these things so you can only give general advice...)

[deuc647]

I was under the impression that the DIs on pres were just as good and use the same signal path that the balanced ins use, and therefore use the same signal path, am i wrong? If so, what radial JDI?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I was under the impression that the DIs on pres were just as good and use the same signal path that the balanced ins use, and therefore use the same signal path, am i wrong? If so, what radial JDI?

Nope. At least not always. The DI I used to use all the time, on the Peavey VMP 2, sounded quite different than the Radial JDI through the preamp section of the same unit. There are impedance differences and so there are ways they adapt the DI input to the preamp and therefore sonic differences.

[drBill]

I don't know about the API A2D, but the DI 1/4" inputs on the 512B/C's are killer!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I was under the impression that the DIs on pres were just as good and use the same signal path that the balanced ins use, and therefore use the same signal path, am i wrong? If so, what radial JDI?

Generally, the DI's on preamps simply bypass the input transformer and result in a loss of that character. That's why whenever possible, I go with an external DI (like a Radial JDI or Duplex).

Originally Posted by drBill

I don't know about the API A2D, but the DI 1/4" inputs on the 512B/C's are killer!

The A2D DI is better, due to a high input impedance... I think the 512's DI is good (although still not as good as using an external), but it's not so good on guitars and bass.

[pootkao]

Love me, love my Duplex.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I think the 512's DI is good (although still not as good as using an external), but it's not so good on guitars and bass.

Whaaaaat? Sorry I disagree. Mostly I use 512B's, and I've had several guitarists and bass players with huge racks wonder why I plugged them straight out of their guitar into the 512. But they didn't wonder for long. Several went right out and bought 512's for that reason alone after hearing their sound - direct into the 1/4" input of a 512B. maybe I just don't know what I'm missing....

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by drBill

Whaaaaat? Sorry I disagree. Mostly I use 512B's, and I've had several guitarists and bass players with huge racks wonder why I plugged them straight out of their guitar into the 512. But they didn't wonder for long. Several went right out and bought 512's for that reason alone after hearing their sound - direct into the 1/4" input of a 512B. maybe I just don't know what I'm missing....

Well... Try using a BSS, Countryman or Radial and start going through the input transformer on your API via the rear XLR. I'm happier with the sound in this type of setup, and you might be too.

You won't know until you try.

[deuc647]

Thanks Peeder and Tony, appreciate the help!