DIY, AFFORDABLE Iso Booth?! WTF can you do?!

[halcyo]

Please excuse my long post, but I think this is something that many people are having trouble with in a home studio setting. I need help.

First of all, **** all these people selling all this acoustical treatment for WAY too much money. Now I need to ask everyone for some help again.

GOAL (if possible): Build a small isolation booth that will DEFINITLEY facilitate vocals and small things, but I wouldn't mind building one bigger, possible for drums and things.

PROBLEM: Every resource on the internet for sound proofing/reduction/treatment/isolation/etc. is some company trying to sell you THEIR box. I am finding it very hard to believe that I can find almost no information on the best materials to use in constructing my own.

The thing is this. The ISOLATION part is not the most critical part in my particular situation. More than anything, I am simply hoping to remove the room sound from my vocal recordings, or at least tame it. Instead of treating my whole damn room, why shouldn't I just treat the immediate area around the sound source (microphone, singer, etc.)

On the other hand SOME isolation would be very helpful. I am in a third floor on a residential street, and although I am quite far from the road, and in a closed room, I would like to not have so much 'house noise' to worry about. Fans, vents, dogs downstairs and big trucks outside are all things that are minimal, but I would love to lessen them quite a bit.

So........I was about THIS far from ordering up a few HF MicroTraps from Real Traps, and mounting them on mic stands, and placing them in a half circle around me and the mic, but I got to thinking. A) While this will help with early reflections, will it do anything for isolation, and B) is there really not a way for me to make something that would serve the same purpose for much less than $119.99 for a 4x2 square? Cant I make panels like this?

Then of course this leads to me asking. Are there good 'homebrew' solutions for this problem. Are 'moving blankets' going to really help or hinder my sound? I need some specific suggestions bad. Remember, I would be happy if I could at least get great vocals. Something that allows me to disregard the damn ROOM when it comes to vocal recordings.

Something that gives me 'nice', 'clean' and 'clear', but not 'muddled', 'dull', and 'clinical'...AND SOME Isolation would be great. Is this making any sense. I really cant spend more than $500 bucks on something like this, and I'd like to spend as little as possible, even if that means building something from scratch.

Thank you

halcyo

[warhead]

On the cheap, my buddy built a booth / frame out of pvc piping and hung moving blankets all around it for some isolation. Did a good job at killing pc fan noise etc. and providing a non reflective environment for vocals. Worked well in a spare bedroom setting.

You're talking maybe $250 including boatloads of moving blankets?

For mobile type iso:

http://www.mojopie.com/foam.html

I use these walls around singers and drum kits all the time but it's mainly just to control room reflections say between a hi hat and a reflective corner, or a singer in a "V" shaped pattern around them when I'm using an OMNI pattern etc.

War

[Ruphus]

There is a big difference between difussion and insulation. As you know room size and especially ceiling height are very supporting. But if you wanted to insulate a whole room it would get just too expensive, even if you acted clever and bought the materials from DIY-store instead from music stores.

If you want to build an insulating cabine consider that the following elements on principle help isolating:
# Massive dense material ( rock, concrete, brick, glass, MDF )
# fibre
# enclosed air

However the most suiting matrerials would get too heavy and expensive that´s why cabines or room in rooms often are build with the following:

# sheetrock
# stone wool
# air enclosure
# elastic stuff like rubber or elastic mates ( to isolate construction from building surface / floor

My cabine is build out of an outer shell of sheetrock. The sheets being interconnected with wooden bars ( felt layers between wedged s-rock and wood ), on the inside covered with stone wool. Inside on an elastic mate rests the inner shell composed out of MDF ( floor ), and sheetrock again.

( Windows integrated individually into inner and outer shells, also doors doubled. duh!)

Between the shells is the enclosed air ( roughly 15 cm ).

When drawing the cabine try to avoid parallel walls if possible and keep the windows angled to each other.

However, be warned. If you have a good sounding room you might find yourself using a cabine only for rehearsing in the night. Because if your room sounds good you might in the end still rather risk damn leakage into your recordings ( and annoying neighbours ) than compromising with either boxy or dead cabine sound.

Yeah, if only isolating a whole room wouldn´t be so expensive ... A good room sound seems to pass any cabines anytime.

Ruphus

[Ethan Winer]

Halcyo,

> While [HF MiniTraps] will help with early reflections, will it do anything for isolation <

Not as much as you probably need. That kind of setup is meant to create a dead area to record in. To obtain any real isolation you need an enclosed space.

> Cant I make panels like this? <

Sure, and the key ingredient is rigid fiberglass. You'll need to wrap it in fabric for appearance and to keep the fibers in place, and you'll need to devise some way to mount the raw panels so they don't topple over. But again, to obtain a meaningful amount of isolation from trucks and such you need an enclosed space.

Do you have a closet you can use? A closet stuffed with clothing will do the job, and of course it's free.

--Ethan

[elninojesus]

Do you have any good resources for buying rigid fiberglass? I'm guessing you cant get it from Lowes or Home Depot.


Mark

[halcyo]

Hey Ethan, Thanks for your thoughts. I am very impressed with your honesty in your responses. See the thing is, isolation is not absolutely needed. I don't think it will be a problem all the time, but an occasional loud noise outside may leak. To be frank, I am probably being paranoid about the outside noise thing. I bet if I recorded key vocals at night (which is when I prefer to sing anyway) I would have no problems.

Since you lurk around these boards, maybe you can sell me a bit more on your products. I can not afford to get 4-5 MiniTraps, but some Microtraps may fit the budget. How much 'room sound removal' are we talking about here? I'm not even sure my room is THAT awful. It is a finished third floor of an old victorian house. High vaulted ceiling, probably 15 feet at least at its peak. There are crazy, non parallel walls everywhere and the floor is old hardwood. In fact, as I look around, there isn't a single, flat, rectangular wall in the whole room. The are totally vaulted walls. I am far to novice an acoustician (?) to even know what sounds best. I could be sitting on a beautiful room and not know it! I should take some pictures.

Anyway, I'm sure I will need SOME ambience control. I am in Cincinnati, and the cicadas are ****ing rampant around here, but they seem to shut up at night. I just want good vocals and I'm freakin out!

halcyo

[Scinx]

No parallel walls is good. High vaulted ceiling is also good as that is another set of walls that is not parallel (with the floor). Wood flooring is good for reverb - but if you want a dead sound - then Id think wood is not what you want. I personally would take that room without complaint.

As for reflections - you are mostly looking for something to absorb sound waves. Ethans products or something you contruct yourself will help control these. Just putting up foam wont do the job as you will kill the high end but the mids and lows have the potential to bounce around and make things muddy.

As such - with your situation - Id look at treating the room with basstraps or something equivalent. Ethan has instructions on his site or you can do a search and fine instructions elsewhere.

If you want to totally isolate - then yes - Id think a ISO Booth would do the trick nicely. Alternatively as discussed, putting up moving blankets on pvc would be fine.

Goodluck

[Ethan Winer]

Halcyo,

> I am very impressed with your honesty in your responses. <

Thanks. As I've said many times, I believe so strongly in the importance of acoustic treatment that I'd rather someone buy from a competitor or build it themselves than go without.

> some Microtraps may fit the budget. How much 'room sound removal' are we talking about here? <

If you get enough of them to surround the singer (at least three, four is better still), you can get rid of all the room sound. You'll still have an opening at the top of the "booth," but reflections from the ceiling will not be a problem if you use a directional mike.

--Ethan

[halcyo]

So Ethan, you ARE reffering to the HF version of the MICROtrap, correct? I don't want my treble sucked away from me! My voice is 'full' as it is, so I just want CLARITY, in highs, mids, and lows. Also, is it best to place the 'wall' behind or in front of the singer. It seems to me it could go either way, due to the fact that the directional mic will only receive mostly from the singer side.

halcyo

[Scinx]

They wont suck anything from you...it just will help kill reflections that the mic picks up. When you sing, your voice/sound hits the microphone and the mic gets "everything". What the minitraps (or equivalents) would do is absorb/kill/deaden/etc. the sound waves coming back to the microphone. These reflections are what ends up "sucking" away sounds as they start negating sound waves and hence, making things muddy/brittle/etc.

So I wouldnt worry about shields and the like sucking things from your voice. They will only help.

[JesusDoesVegas]

do materials such as carpet or egg crates do a decent job of isolating sounds? I have a room about 7 ft tall, about 4X6. in its current state the walls are cement, and i get a bad echo, but im wondering if i line the room (being as small as it is, it wouldnt cost much) if i would be able to use it for vocals, or mabee even aux percussion, or accustic guitar.

"do materials such as carpet or egg crates do a decent job of isolating sounds?"

No.

Carpet can kill off the HF stuff but, will most likely make the room sound real boxy.
Egg crates.......who startted this sh!t! These do nothing.

If you are dead ass broke:
1.Build exposed framing with 2x2's on at least 2 of the walls and ceiling.
2.Seperate the uprights with 24"s.
3.Place 24" roll pink insulation between with paper removed or to the back.
4.Cover with the thinnest plastic sheathing you can find stapling to the wood.
5.Cover with burlap.
6.Place trim in corners nailed through to the wood.

This should run 150-200 for that little room.
There are way better ways to address this room but, this is cheap and will kill it for vocals/gtr.
Anyone can do it.
All can be bough at the depot or lowes.


D

[Ethan Winer]

Halcyo,

> you ARE reffering to the HF version of the MICROtrap, correct? <

Yes. Or an HF type MiniTrap if you want the absorption to extend lower in frequency.

> I don't want my treble sucked away from me! <

What happens mainly is it prevents the reflections that make a track sound thin and hollow. In fact, you'll surely get more clarity. If you read EQ magazine, my article in the current (June) issue explains a lot about this.

> is it best to place the 'wall' behind or in front of the singer <

It's best to put it between the singer and any nearby surfaces. It's those nearby surfaces that create the comb filtering and quick echoes that damage clarity.

--Ethan

[Ruphus]

Hi Ethan,

If you have the time, please let me ask a couple more questions.

Guess it will be needing practical test of the individual circumstances, but it would be nice to hear of what could be expected in general ...

Tomorrow I´ll be going to the DIY market and seeking for rigid fiber glass and sack cloth to deaden my vocal booth.
I know that it would have been best to attach the mates to a thin die plate and placing those a bit away from the booths inner sheetrock then, so that it had still air between the mates and booth walls, but such appears too large scaled ( all sections being of different sizes ) and costy for now, so the plan is to just losely lean the fiber mates against the sheetrock and stretch the cloth over it.

# Would the expected dampening of the LF give me good results or could HF still be bouncing around and yet not allow a clean recording?

# First I was considering to check out whether leaving some surfaces naked ( besides of bare ceiling and windows anyway ) could be attractive, but meanwhile I came to the idea that `complete´ deadening could be best ( = getting reverb only through post fx ).
Correspondingly to the idea windows and ceiling as bare surfaces being enough, or possibly even too much already ...
Could I be on the right path with thinking like that?

# Is there maybe anything special which I should consider?

The booth has the following inner measures for a rough picture:

----__________107 cm__________________________
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|----------------------------------------------------------|
----|------------------------------------------------ 1 -------|
----|-------------------- 2 ------------------------- 7 -------|
---- -------------------- 0 ------------------------- 2 -------|
----|-------------------- 5 -----------------------------------|
----- W--------------------------------------------- c -------|
----|-------------------- c ------------------------- m -------|
------ i ----------------- m ----------------------------------|
----|------------------------------------------------ L --------|
------ n ---------------- H ------------------------ e --------|
----|-------------------- i -------------------------- n -------|
------ d ---------------- g ------------------------- g -------|
----|-------------------- h ------------------------- t --------|
------ o ---------------- t ------------------------- h --------|
----|-----------------------------------------------------------|
------ w ------------------------------------------------------|
----|-----------------------------------------------------------|
---- -----------------------------------------------------------|
----|-----------------------------------------------------------|
----|-----------------------------------------------------------|
------\---------------------------------------------------------|
--------- ------------------------------------------------------|
----------- Door ----------------------------------------------|
----------------------- -----------------------------------------|
---------------------------- with ------------------------------|
---------------------------------- ------------------------------|
----------------------------------------- window -------------|
-------------------------------------------------\__________|


Thanks a lot for your help in advance.

Greets,

Ruphus

[Ethan Winer]

Ruphus,

> Would the expected dampening of the LF give me good results or could HF still be bouncing around and yet not allow a clean recording? <

Thin rigid fiberglass absorbs higher frequencies only. As it's made thicker the absorption extends lower and lower. So it's not possible to have more absorption at the low end than at the high end. Put another way, as long as you use rigid fiberglass at least one inch thick, it will do what you want.

> I was considering to check out whether leaving some surfaces naked <

Maybe. When you record near a reflective surface you get very short echoes that create a comb filter - a series of many peaks and deep nulls in the frequency response that's not unlike a phaser or flanger effect set to a single (not sweeping) position. For vocals this is usually best avoided, but a single nearby reflecting surface can often sound good too. So maybe make the booth with three sides permanently absorbing, and make the fourth panel removable so you can experiment.

--Ethan

[Ruphus]

Hi Ethan,

Thanks a bunch for taking care for me. :O)

Just finished the booth, 10 minutes ago.

Had been searching in the DIY for what I imagined as "rigid" fiber glass, but there was no avail of any compressed fiber mates. Could it be that "rigid" means just the usual sort, which is commonly used in construction work?

Well anyway, I chose a specimen of 1 inch diameter which had kind of thicker paper glued to one side. More expensive, but the paper showed to be good in propping up and very pratical in handling the stuff.

Cut the fiber sheets into right size and wrapped the paperless side with raw silk ( cheaper than linen . Still 100 Euros for 13 square meters ... )

With the prepared mates then I covered the entire booth, except of the ceiling.

I think there still is a tiny bit of boxy sound, prolly because of the glass surfaces, but you can´t hear distinctive reflections anymore.
And maybe when recording that subtle boxy sound won´t get too apparent.
Anyhow, the booth is very much better now, and I want to thank you, Ethan, for participating on GS.

Without your helpful contributions I might had gone with stupid foam, spend much more than I finally did ( 170 Euros, besides ) and had less absorbtion.




Best,

Ruphus

[Ethan Winer]

Ruphus,

> you can´t hear distinctive reflections anymore. <

Great!

--Ethan

[Ruphus]

:O)

Ruphus

[novak73]

This is really interesting excellent thread!
I am in the process of sorting out the sound in my project studio and have to build a booth for vocals. (with a lot of help from my friends)
Reading this and all the threads have been invaluable so thanks!


Good luck

Nikki

[studiowolff]

DIY traps for recording outdoors at someones living room
I would like to build some.
Here in the netherlands i can get my hand on rigid fibre like this:
http://rti.inforce.dk/graphics/RTI-N...13_223_233.PDF

I would like to frame it a 100x60 cm, what do you guys think? Is that
a good thing to do, to put a few of these arround the vocal or acc. guitar?

Should i take the 203/213/223 or 233 plates?

Thanks,

Jeroen

[octatonic]

[Sigma]

i did a series of articles for discmakers their editors were not the best but you can get pics andf the gist from going here ..BTW it sounds great..just gotta get rollers for the door openers and take off door handles and put pull plates up..[door handles of reg sort will be a pasagewayfor sound]

http://www.discmakers.com/music/pse/...ectstudio3.asp

http://www.discmakers.com/music/pse/...ectstudio4.asp