Dance music studio being built - need advice

[zmainardi]

Hello fellow sluts!

I'm building a home studio to make mostly dance/electronica tracks. I'm a big fan of technological, kinda "sterile", edgy tracks. I want my sound to be loud, clear and modern. That being said I now face the preamp and compressor market, with it's tons of options.

My studio so far looks like this: Logic, Ableton, Genelecs, RME Fireface, Virus TI and Waves SSL plug-ins. Now, I wanna get a nice preamp, a mic, and perhaps a compressor. I've realized that this "warm sound" thing, so mentioned in audio, is not what I'm looking for - if this is a a wrong statement, and warmth is always something good, even in edgy dance tracks, please correct me.

So, I've came across this plethora of options, and I'm leaning towards buying an SSL XLogic Alpha Channel ('cause I can get it for a really good price) and a transformerless mic. Do you guys that this a good choice? If not, which preamp would you recommend?And which mic might be a good match with it?

I know that ideally I should have an array of options regarding my mics - and I plan to get more later. But, for now, I want to get something that will fit my instant needs - recording a male or female loud vocal clearly, with power and not necessarily with a lot of warmth (again I might be wrong!) and perhaps an guitar now and then.

Another question: I know I'll need a compressor to add to the mic chain if I don't get a preamp with a built in compressor. The idea of getting a separate compressor pleases me more, so I can have more tools in a somewhat limited budget. I heard that the Universal Audio LA-610 kicks ass and it's price is very good for what it is. If I were to get a preamp and a compressor separately with the LA-610 quality I'd probably pay a lot more.

So, what are your opinions on this?

Thanks a lot,
Zeno.

[Joji]

Mic -Manley Reference Gold
Compressor, Elysia Mpressor

[Vogon]

If by "warm" you mean fat-lower-mids, less top-end - the LA610 very much in the "warm" camp. It's not a particularly versatile box.
"Warm" means a different thing to each person, but you'll need some weight in the lows to provide the impression of "power".
In a lot of dance, the vocals are processed to f*ck, I've seen DJ's bring their badge hardware in (Neve's, Neumann's etc) and then process the vocal 'till it sounded like a mackie with a C1000. *Some* DJ's can be such cloth-eared logo victims.
The SSL sounds like a good choice, SSL's to my ear have a processed quality to start with (in a good way, for dance stuff!), though with regard to TL mics; some transformer mics are very "clear", it depends on the design: don't get too wrapped up in the idea that transformers are all the same.
You haven't really mentioned budget, but FWIW - I'd maybe look into Audio-Technica stuff for a modern, "clear" sounding mic (esp. 4060). Maybe a Brauner...
For a separate comp, the DBX-160 family is a good bet, affordable and effective, you can get a "character" comp or mic later, and would still find uses for this stuff.

[kurt]

Not to be harsh but The Studio is an acoustic space optimized for playing life music to be recorded. Recording gear is just necessary inventory or set of cheap or not so cheap tools every gifted or not musician-composer is using today..tutt

[LewisWu]

Originally Posted by kurt

Not to be harsh but The Studio is an acoustic space optimized for playing life music to be recorded. Recording gear is just necessary inventory or set of cheap or not so cheap tools every gifted or not musician-composer is using today..tutt

uh... thats not harsh... thats just closed minded. a studio is a space where an artist works... for a recording artist, it helps if the acoustic space is optimized.. in this case it should be optimized for mixing and listening... but what zeno wants is advice on which direction to take his purchasing power.

i suggest that you invest some cash in your room.. and like kurt, kinda suggested, optimize your studio for sound.

[zmainardi]

Thanks for the replies.

When i was writing the post I thought that the word studio might be an overstatement as well, but what else would call it? My living room gear? I'm working on the acoustics already so that's not my main concern.

I'm choosing the gear now and I could say that my budget is decent - I'm willing to spend around $ 2000 on a pre with a compressor (that allowed me to use the compressor separately) or on both pieces individually (in this case I would spend more). I'm not in a hurry, so I can wait a bit and try to get this gear used at better prices.

I need a clear preamp (is the Alpha Channel at 800 dollars a good option?), to record vocals and a compressor to use coupled with the preamp or to put some basslines through. I have a AT4040 mic, but I was thinking about upgrading to a 4050 or a 4060 indeed. Any other suggestions?

Thanks again,
Zeno.

[alexp]

Originally Posted by kurt

Not to be harsh but The Studio is an acoustic space optimized for playing life music to be recorded. Recording gear is just necessary inventory or set of cheap or not so cheap tools every gifted or not musician-composer is using today..tutt

Wow that was ********. Your saying that

a) only live music is "allowed" to be recorded in a studio

b) electronic musicians are not musicians? Wanna jam sometime?

c) this is possibly the most closedminded, negative thing I have yet to see on here. Seriously man, get a clue before you post.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by alexp

c) this is possibly the most closedminded, negative thing I have yet to see on here.

I see that you're new here.

[zmainardi]

Hahahaha.. This is getting way out of topic. I didn't really care about this guy's comment or his opinion on what a studio should be. I'm more interested is discussing the gear here. So if you guys have any knowledge to share, I'll be thankful.

Zeno

[rackdude]

Am I missing something or is the drums missing? Battery? Synthetic Drums? I don't know if I could do dance music without drum machines or vst drum samplers (I love my vst samplers for some reason).

Electronic you will need plenty of synths and drum samplers. Look into a lot more VST's and such. The Virus is probably the best synth, but having more like Vanguard and V-Station is nice.

The AT mics I have heard hella about, all I got is a AT2020 and it's pretty decent, I want a 4050...


But I have mixed plenty of dance and electronica, and even more trance. I don't use anything more than a huge array of VST's most of the time (because most of it does not have vocals). Z3ta, Electrik Piano, B-4, Battery with Synthetic Drums, V-Station, Vanguard, Dimension Pro, Intakt, Symphonic Orchestra, many more...

Those are my friends for that kind of music. Lots of Dance you don't even need vocals, I would really start there. (Or get some good hardware)

Just my 2 cents...

[zmainardi]

Originally Posted by rackdude

Am I missing something or is the drums missing? Battery? Synthetic Drums? I don't know if I could do dance music without drum machines or vst drum samplers (I love my vst samplers for some reason).

Electronic you will need plenty of synths and drum samplers. Look into a lot more VST's and such. The Virus is probably the best synth, but having more like Vanguard and V-Station is nice.

The AT mics I have heard hella about, all I got is a AT2020 and it's pretty decent, I want a 4050...


But I have mixed plenty of dance and electronica, and even more trance. I don't use anything more than a huge array of VST's most of the time (because most of it does not have vocals). Z3ta, Electrik Piano, B-4, Battery with Synthetic Drums, V-Station, Vanguard, Dimension Pro, Intakt, Symphonic Orchestra, many more...

Those are my friends for that kind of music. Lots of Dance you don't even need vocals, I would really start there. (Or get some good hardware)

Just my 2 cents...

I've already got plenty of VST/AU instruments such as Battery, FM8, Sonalksis plug-ins, PSP Vintage Warmer and sample libraries as well. My focus here is hardware. Thanks for your 2 cents anyway!

[kurt]

Originally Posted by alexp

Wow that was ********. Your saying that

a) only live music is "allowed" to be recorded in a studio

b) electronic musicians are not musicians? Wanna jam sometime?

c) this is possibly the most closedminded, negative thing I have yet to see on here. Seriously man, get a clue before you post.

Hm, “electronic musician”, I was just pointing that programming room, rehearsal room, bedroom or even control room alone, whatever, with some recording gear every kid in the block with a few $ in the pocket can have today, does not make you recording engineer or STUDIO owner. There is a very distinct line in between. tutt
But.. good luck with your plans.

[Jamie Matrix]

Originally Posted by kurt

Hm, “electronic musician”, I was just pointing that programming room, rehearsal room, bedroom or even control room alone, whatever, with some recording gear every kid in the block with a few $ in the pocket can have today, does not make you recording engineer or STUDIO owner. There is a very distinct line in between. tutt
But.. good luck with your plans.

That's quite a patronising response.
It makes me wonder if you might be one of these guys who's a little bitter over the fact that lot's of "kids in the block" manage to make amazing and successful records with their "few $ in the pocket". Really who cares what name is given to a bunch of gear in a room?

[alexp]

Ha Jamie dont worry. That guys not even on my radar. I am all hardware, including large format console and vintage outboard, but it seems he assumed right from the get go and that makes me chuckle.


InitialsBB - yes I am new here... Somehow I have taken your post as a dire warning! lol


I agree with rackdude though. You dont have drums. Unless you plan on using single hit samples in your music and just have a ton of little wav files stashed away, I would look into something like Battery. Or just get an outboard sampler (as you can get them so cheaply now).

[Rogervandeberg]

Originally Posted by zmainardi

Hello fellow sluts!

I'm building a home studio to make mostly dance/electronica tracks. I'm a big fan of technological, kinda "sterile", edgy tracks. I want my sound to be loud, clear and modern. That being said I now face the preamp and compressor market, with it's tons of options.

Thanks a lot,
Zeno.

A lot of guys who do dance have the mindprint DTC channel strip for those trance like vocals. It can also be used as a nice buss eq, so it can serve more than one purpose and at the price it's unbeatable. I also like the la610 (however very colored but very upfront) and the avalon 737 (very stackable and solid) for dance purposes.
If you really want a clean mic you can use a mic like the brauner phantom, or in the somewhat more colored department i'd go with a peluso 22251 or p12 for those more bright and solid base trance vox.

Compressorwise i think you can do a lot with your waves ssl bundle, so i'd suggest buying a mic/pre first.

[mandrum]

I am kinda after the same end I think, well contrasted clean modern Zany (digital heaven) sounds. I've been told by other dudes that the interface is'nt that important nor a mixing board nor pres etc. Do it all in the box with plug ins. I have a presonus FP10 at the minute, and was told the AD/DA convertion wouldn't be an issue for dance music, I then asked about vox, same answer unless you are recording bands don't bother, buy plugs blah blah' Is this true, I mean Kylie recorded a very dancy type album poppy dance granted, but using a neve board loads of outboard gear, I also think there is confusion between warm sounds and mushy sound. Listen to most pro recordings and even edgy dance stuff have an element of warmth, the too sterile sound of many amatuars, is this not a by product of going down the pure in the box route, or .... . Anyway, basically whats the cheapest way of doing it as that is the major factor for me, if I can get pro on a presonus great, thats one piece of gear I dont need to replace, then I hear motu isnt much better anyway, you need to spend x or y to hear a difference, then I hear Madonna has recorded on motu. Well a mix of thoughts here, but plug in or outboard or as I believe might work best a mix of both?
How much should be spent on outboard gear, How much for in the box?
How much do you have to spend, dont tell me I need to learn to mix, I know I know I now, just want to know what to buy to get stuck in and learn good habits on gear that will produce the dogs bolxxxks of performances, then well, I can't blame gear, however as truthfull as I want dudes to be, don't say $50,000, can true pro dance tracks be made cheap and if so, as I have already asked what do I need - some suggestions please?

[u b k]

since you're not in the high end forum, i'm gonna take the liberty to recommend some stuff that doesn't get much love there, but which is exceptional at (tonally) clean but (behaviorally) interesting compression. the good news is that, since you're not tube and transformer obsessed, you can get a lot of bang for very little buck.

you can get these pieces new, but i really recommend you start scouring the classifieds, ebay, and craigslist, and jump on the following if they show up:


aphex expressor, dominator, or compellor

jbl/urei 7110

dbx 160

spl dynamaxx


and while it's nasty, i like having a 3630 for electronic stuff, it's great at crunching things up in an unpleasantly pleasing way.

if you can afford it, the mpressor would blow your mind and take your textures to the next level. but the privelege ain't cheap.

happy hunting!


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Beneficial]

How would the SPL Dynamaxx compare to a DBX 163 (or 164 which is the stereo version)? I love using the 164 for how it can make my drums extra crunchy, dirty, heavy... etch but it's so incredibly easy to use and sounds so good even when pushed hard. Can the Dynamaxx do that?