Looking for new tom mics....

[PoorGlory]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some new tom mics. I'm looking to get 4 of whatever kind I decide on, and I'd like to keep it in the ballpark of $1K or under. I'm looking for something mainly for rock/metal toms but also something versatile for use on other things. I've been thinking about:

CAD M179
ATM450
Oktava MK012
Shure Beta98
Beyer M201
Beyer Opus 87/88/67

I'm leaning towards condensers, but with some of these I'm worried about cymbal bleed. Also, anyone have experience with the Beyer Opus mics and how the different ones listed above stack up? Those particular ones would pretty much only be for toms though, but they're cheap.

[Nu-tra]

I have the cad m179 no bleed problems

[warhead]

The M179 kills on (A) sound (B) placement (C) bleed in hypercardioid mode.

I found them to reject off axis sound in hypercardioid slightly better than my E/V ND468 mics. Also, the off axis sound sounds better as well.

Those CAD mics are just stellar on toms, but also work as a great workhorse condensor on everything else as well. Very low noise also. For tom use you must engage the pad.

I've tried just about all of the mics in your list, those including anything else have never delivered the depth, stick attack and punch of the M179 (along with the excellent rejection).

War

[PoorGlory]

How are you placing the CADs?

[Doublehelix]

Sorry to hijack here...

I have always used dynamics on toms. In the "old days" I would always use my Sennhesier MD421s, and then more recently (last couple of years) I started using Audix D2 and D4s more and more.

So what is the deal with condensers? I know for a while it seemed to be the big deal to use the Oktava 012s on toms, and I always wanted to try that, but never got to it.

Who is selling the CAD M179s? I did a quick search on Musician's Friend, and they don't have them. Have they been discontinued?

EDIT: OK, never mind, I just went to Front End Audio and found them there... Sorry Warren, it is just easy to go to MF to get a price, even though I rarely buy there anymore.

[Brad McGowan]

Another vote for the M179's. They are a match made in heaven on toms. No very little EQ required upon mixdown. And the bleed is extremely useable. The basic deal with condensers on toms is that they don't sound like a papery boxy imitation of the drum (ahem 421). If you come from the 421 on toms school then hearing an M179 side by side for the first time will be quite revealing and shocking.

I end up placing them the same way I would a 421. If you angle it more towards the strike zone then you get more attack and stick. If you angle it more towards the rim then you get more "boom".

If you look on Craigslist and Ebay you can find killer deals on used M179's. I picked up a matched pair with shockmounts on CL for $180.

Brad

[studjo]

well different strokes for different folks I guess but just the other day the drummer was asking "what have you done with my toms they sound killer" - I looked down at the desk and said "nothing" (no Eq and no Comp/gate)

mics were 421


Jo


ps btw I agreed with the drummer the toms very great and not boxy at all

[Sounds Great]

EV N/D468 Dynamic Instrument Microphone

[SRS]

Though not on your list, but mentioned in a previous post... I really like the sound of the Audix line. D4 for floors and D2 for smaller racks. They have a nice low end curve with a mid dip and a bit of presence (in general). Usually what the doctor ordered for EQ for toms. Certainly a good starting point. Dynamics though... Give 'em a try, I think you would like them.

[BLueROom]

Audix D series are the best for the money IMHO. They ALWAYS work well. You could get 3 D2s(rack), a D4(floor) and a D6(kick) for about $1000. You can't go wrong with the 421s either.

[drummin4christ]

I really like the Senn. E604's. I use them with a md421 and to me, they sound very similar.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by drummin4christ

I really like the Senn. E604's.

I tried them and they sounded a bit thin to me.

[druhms]

I never got why the Audix D series is so hot. I tried them once and it was instant Pantera. They sounded so scooped out and hollow I never tried them again. Maybe I should?

As far as the original question, call me old school, but it's hard to screw up a 421 and they rock on a few other things as well.

Druhms

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

I tried them and they sounded a bit thin to me.

I loved them, and I don't even own them. I'm buying some in the next week or so, but compared to what I've always used(audix d series, sm57's)they were just so much more accurate. Adjust the volume, and a tiny bit of eq and you've got a great tom sound.

[henryrobinett]

I have three D2s. They do OK. I got them when I was looking for some good budget tom mics when I started my mic collection. They do OK, but I think 421s kick their butts. And I don't own any of those.

[Anselmo]

I´ve been thinking about getting a trio of the Sennheiser e604 also... anybody else care to comment on them?

[TornadoTed]

I've got 4x 421's and 4x CAD 179's

The CAD's get used most of the time on toms, the off axis sound just sounds way better.

[Malcolm Boyce]

Love the Beta98D/S. Most flexible mount of the drum variety. Was a die hard dynamic on toms guy until I used the original SM98, and now the Beta. They do have a very specific hi-fi kind of sound that you probably either love or hate. Excellent value with the heavy duty included cable with the drum mount version.

The Shure mics kill the Beyer for build quality as far as any of the drum condensers that I've used. I've had connectors crack and break, actual mount bodies break. Good sound, but not the most hearty.

Be sure to at least try the Beta 98.

[gsqd]

M179/177's for rock toms all the way.

Warren was spot in with his advice when we were tracking drums for a full on album project recently. I managed to find 4 M177's second hand for a stupid price. We tried all the usual suspects (421's etc) but nothing came close to that "mixed" massive sound that the drummer wanted from classic 70's rock.
The 177 doesn't do hyper cardioid but the bleed is soo damn musical it's worth leaving it in!

We also stuck one on front of the kick in place of:

U47
SubKick
D6
and everything else we tried.

The damn things just "work".

Thanks Warren.

<GM>

[espen askelad]

My usual response to gear that's getting hyped up here is lukewarm... like it's good, but is it really better than the rest? I'm not hearing it.

M179 is really good. Lives up to the hype on toms. Haven't really used it much elsewhere with similar results, but I have mics that are covering everything else quite well for me. For toms, though, had 421s, ATM25s, some Audix, bunch of other standards, never really loved any. 179 really sounds great on them, and if you're not ready to plunk down the big cash for some e22s or something, they're a really good bet.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some new tom mics. I'm looking to get 4 of whatever kind I decide on, and I'd like to keep it in the ballpark of $1K or under. I'm looking for something mainly for rock/metal toms but also something versatile for use on other things. I've been thinking about:

CAD M179
ATM450
Oktava MK012
Shure Beta98
Beyer M201
Beyer Opus 87/88/67

I'm leaning towards condensers, but with some of these I'm worried about cymbal bleed. Also, anyone have experience with the Beyer Opus mics and how the different ones listed above stack up? Those particular ones would pretty much only be for toms though, but they're cheap.

I didn't see the standards on your list

Senheiser 421

Sure Beta 52 Floor toms

[PoorGlory]

Not a fan of the Beta 52 on floor toms at all.

Four 421s would be over my budget, even consider they go for $300 used these days.

I've used the Beta 98s a lot live and they are certainly great, but again, I'm looking for some more versatility than they can offer.

I'm going the condenser route because what I'm currently using Beta 56s, which are fine, but I need a change. I've done 57s, e604s and 421s live a ton and they all do the job, but I think what I'm looking for is something a condenser will give me. I was really hoping people would be more excited about the Beyers.

Oh well, looks like M179s for me.

[Mike Brown]

I have 3 e604's that I use live and in the studio and they sound pretty good. I like to pair them with another microphone though, sometimes a 414, sometimes a 421, really depends on the set and the room.

They are somewhat common, maybe you could borrow one and play with it for a weekend? Or rent one for a week from your local SR company?

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I was really hoping people would be more excited about the Beyers.

I've not heard the CADs or the newer Opus mics you mentioned, but if you're dead set on Beyerdynamics, I'd strongly recommend you try some M88s.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

How are you placing the CADs?

Placement is easy. It's a side address mic, so you are approaching it from a different angle than a standard "end firing" dynamic mic. This also keeps cables from sticking up in your cymbals etc as well.

I usually have the M179 about 2" inside the rim, about a 30 degree angle pointing towards the center of the tom, about 2 to 3" up. That is generally a good place to start. I'm looking for a pic of this, I swear I had one but can't find at the moment.

War

[warhead]

I found it for you.



War

[Jeff16years]

I've been using Shure KSM 27's on racks and Shure KSM 32's on Floor toms.
...I like the sound

[ofsaints]

Originally Posted by Einar

I´ve been thinking about getting a trio of the Sennheiser e604 also... anybody else care to comment on them?

I like the e604 on rack toms. They sound good and stay out of the way of sticks and cymbals. But I prefer a 421 on the floor tom for the extra bottom end.

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by warhead

Placement is easy. It's a side address mic, so you are approaching it from a different angle than a standard "end firing" dynamic mic. This also keeps cables from sticking up in your cymbals etc as well.

I usually have the M179 about 2" inside the rim, about a 30 degree angle pointing towards the center of the tom, about 2 to 3" up. That is generally a good place to start. I'm looking for a pic of this, I swear I had one but can't find at the moment.

War

Cool... how do they take errant stick hits? I think I might go for these. What about the M177s? How similar are they? I could do 2 177s and 2 179s and that would take care of my versatility needs as well as being nice to the wallet...

[druhms]

If you are dead set on a condenser, I have always loved the AT 4050's on toms. I know they will put you over the top money wise, but I have seen a few go pretty cheap lately.
Druhms