Music Biz Question

[dick swifter]

I was approached to do a record by a christian/pop singer who had heard a bunch of my songs (three already produced and six in demo form) and wanted to "Jesus-ize" the lyrics and leave everything else the same. My question(s) is this: Do these new versions need to be re-copywritten, and if so, what % of these new versions, is he entitled to? About 50-75% of the lyrics are still the original's that I wrote, with him changing certain words or lines to imply a Christian theme.
Thanks for your opinions.

[sahiaman]

Get a lawyer, there are many things that can happen. How you see your roll is what you should negoitate for.

[underworld]

Didn't I see this on South Park?

Christian Rock Hard - 709 - Watch - South Park Zone

CARTMAN
All right, guys, this is gonna be so
easy. All we have to do to make Christian
songs is take regular old songs and
add Jesus stuff to them. See? All we
have to do is cross out words like "baby"
and "Darling" and replace them with
Jesus. All right, Butters, give me
a beat. Okay, nice. Very nice. All
right, Token, give me a smooth bass
line.

TOKEN
I don't know how to play bass.

CARTMAN
Token, how many times do we have to
go through this? You're black. You can
play bass.

TOKEN
I'm gettin' sick of your stereotypes!


CARTMAN
Be as sick as you want, just give me
a God-damned bass line!

TOKEN
God-damnit!

CARTMAN
All right. Nice, fellas. Nice.

I need you in my life, Jesus.

I can't live without you, Jesus

And I just want to feel you deep inside me, Jesus.

[Tibbon]

I believe that you'd still own the copyright to derivative works. 100%. I need to check, but you need to get a Lawyer!

[confooshus]

All these people talking about lawyers.... I've never once involved a lawyer in anything other than label contracts. I'm a professional writer/producer, if a co-writer got his attorney in the conversation about song splits, I'd be outta there... It's not worth the trouble.

If I was in the same situation, I'd say split it 75/25. There's no point in adding up how many words are changed etc... Who's to say which part is more important? Is changing 3 words of the main hook in the chorus the same as changing 3 incidental words in the verse? It can't be quanitfied. But everythings negotiable, and in my experience, it's all about the hang. Getting all legal about it is a vibe-killer. Also I'm assuming this is an indy project? Chances are there won't be any money generated via royalties.... Just being real....

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by confooshus

All these people talking about lawyers.... I've never once involved a lawyer in anything other than label contracts. I'm a professional writer/producer, if a co-writer got his attorney in the conversation about song splits, I'd be outta there... It's not worth the trouble.

If I was in the same situation, I'd say split it 75/25. There's no point in adding up how many words are changed etc... Who's to say which part is more important? Is changing 3 words of the main hook in the chorus the same as changing 3 incidental words in the verse? It can't be quanitfied. But everythings negotiable, and in my experience, it's all about the hang. Getting all legal about it is a vibe-killer. Also I'm assuming this is an indy project? Chances are there won't be any money generated via royalties.... Just being real....

im just watching a band going through hell on this! Manager wans a contract signing just as offers are coming in. Made some harsh demands - its literally, as you say, killing the vibe. I think they're real close to sacking he manager. Good bloke - business just aint his thing....

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by narcoman

im just watching a band going through hell on this! Manager wans a contract signing just as offers are coming in. Made some harsh demands - its literally, as you say, killing the vibe. I think they're real close to sacking he manager. Good bloke - business just aint his thing....

I ****ing hate this type of attitude. If you aren't willing to put it in a contract, then you probably aren't willing to hold up your end of the bargain later. I'm a person of my word, and so I'll sign contracts... because they make sure that myself and the other person have a complete understanding of what's happening.

No contract? That means the one side hopes that the other side has a different understanding of what's happening... or is probably not going to live up to their end.

I don't want any, "Well when we were at the bar you said we'd split it... i thought that meant 50/50". Contracts make that a non-issue. Also without a contract if you do have to go to litigation ever, then it's sooo much easier and you won't have your case thrown out instantly.

Musicians are the only people in the world that seem to be so afraid of contracts. Not all contracts are bad! Being a stupid ape and not being able to read a contract is bad however! Being unreasonably afraid of them is bad too.

Contracts don't have to be complicated, long, one-sided, or expensive to have drafted. If someone's unwilling to consider contracts, then I simply see them as unprofessional and not really worth dealing with because they aren't serious about their work or protecting their assests.

Music is the ONLY field that people view contracts with such fear. You 'sign' a contract by using your Operating System, you 'sign' a contract/enter into an agreement when you signup on Facebook, mySpace, or order on Amazon.com. When you get 95% of jobs you sign a contract. When you get a new drivers license you sign an agreement. When someone tells you about a product that's not yet released and has you sign an NDA you sign a contract. When you sign a photo release form you sign a contract. When you sign up for a bank account or credit card you sign a contract. Honestly many more of these are far more one sided than any copyright splitting agreement that you'd enter into.

Basically all your contract needs to say is a clear split of the proceeds, risks and costs. Define who is it, transferability, etc. Just to have the number on paper. Define if you are or are not entering into a partnership, otherwise in most states you automatically have (and under the terms of the state, not your terms)

Yes, if you make money with someone else, enter into a band with someone else, etc... you have legally created a partnership under the terms of the State, which are not your terms... unless you have a Partnership Agreement that states how you want your terms!

You MUST have contracts in life. Stop being afraid of them.

Sorry, it's just a hot button issue for me. I should also note that one of my favorite classes that I've ever taken was a contract negotiation class (specifically on music industry contracts). It was amazing and I loved every minute of it.

If you got an attorney, he's probably tell you that you have zero interest in giving up your copyright to the song in any part. You own the copyright to derrivative works!

[mds]

I'm writing songs for/with one of my best friends. He was in my wedding, etc. Totally trust the guy and had no problem signing a contract. If anything it preserves the friendship...

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by mds

I'm writing songs for/with one of my best friends. He was in my wedding, etc. Totally trust the guy and had no problem signing a contract. If anything it preserves the friendship...

EXACTLY! No contract = misunderstanding. Contracts with friends keep your friend your friends! The last thing you want is some bad blood between you and someone close due to a simple misunderstanding, money, etc. A contract (simple and fair) will keep it friendly for both of you.

[confooshus]

We're talking about splits for a song. Not a record deal with Clive Davis. So you took a class on music business contracts.... Great. Like I said before, as someone who writes with people for major label projects, I think it's ridiculous to talk about attorneys for song splits. People who are outside of the system think it's all cut and dried, that everyone treats their interactions as strictly a business relationship... That's just not the way it is.

[dick swifter]

Originally Posted by underworld

Didn't I see this on South Park?

Christian Rock Hard - 709 - Watch - South Park Zone

CARTMAN
All right, guys, this is gonna be so
easy. All we have to do to make Christian
songs is take regular old songs and
add Jesus stuff to them. See? All we
have to do is cross out words like "baby"
and "Darling" and replace them with
Jesus. All right, Butters, give me
a beat. Okay, nice. Very nice. All
right, Token, give me a smooth bass
line.

TOKEN
I don't know how to play bass.

CARTMAN
Token, how many times do we have to
go through this? You're black. You can
play bass.

TOKEN
I'm gettin' sick of your stereotypes!


CARTMAN
Be as sick as you want, just give me
a God-damned bass line!

TOKEN
God-damnit!

CARTMAN
All right. Nice, fellas. Nice.

I need you in my life, Jesus.

I can't live without you, Jesus

And I just want to feel you deep inside me, Jesus.

Dude! You have no idea how right on you are! That's awesome. That's one of my favorite episodes. Good call.


http://www.mitchkricun.com
http://www.myspace.com/vampiredolphins
http://www.myspace.com/mitchkricun

[dick swifter]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I believe that you'd still own the copyright to derivative works. 100%. I need to check, but you need to get a Lawyer!

That's kinda what I was thinking. The reason I asked here before asking a lawyer is because a lawyer is going to cost about $300.The statutory mechanical rate is 9.10 Cents for songs 5 minutes or less, so if I have to split it with him, after paying a lawyer, I'll just about break even. Unless he sells a whole lot more than I think he's capable.
Again, I'm not opposed to asking a lawyer, I just figured someone here might know and save me some bread.
Thanks for your replies!




http://www.mitchkricun.com
http://www.myspace.com/vampiredolphins
http://www.myspace.com/mitchkricun

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by underworld

Didn't I see this on South Park?

Christian Rock Hard - 709 - Watch - South Park Zone

CARTMAN
All right, guys, this is gonna be so
easy. All we have to do to make Christian
songs is take regular old songs and
add Jesus stuff to them. See? All we
have to do is cross out words like "baby"
and "Darling" and replace them with
Jesus. All right, Butters, give me
a beat. Okay, nice. Very nice. All
right, Token, give me a smooth bass
line.

TOKEN
I don't know how to play bass.

CARTMAN
Token, how many times do we have to
go through this? You're black. You can
play bass.

TOKEN
I'm gettin' sick of your stereotypes!


CARTMAN
Be as sick as you want, just give me
a God-damned bass line!

TOKEN
God-damnit!

CARTMAN
All right. Nice, fellas. Nice.

I need you in my life, Jesus.

I can't live without you, Jesus

And I just want to feel you deep inside me, Jesus.

hilarious....i wonder if he ever made it happen?

.