Jermaine Dupri blasts iTunes

[C Heat]

From the HuffingtonPost.com website.

Read this.

[sahiaman]

Very good read. This can turn out to be a unique case study on how some of these corporations can actually 'stick together' and try to go against their short term business objectives for long term survial.

[Marty J]

Good grief, there seems to be no end to the suffering of successful recording artists.

If all the tracks on your album are amazing, people are going to buy the whole album. If you have one good song and the rest filler, they're going to buy the good song. If half the tracks are stupid skits, many people will skip them. If an artist isn't giving his/her fans what they want, they should either accept it or do something about it.

If you're selling your music, the needs of the people you're selling it to come before your own. Otherwise, it's just masturbation.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Marty J

Good grief, there seems to be no end to the suffering of successful recording artists.

If all the tracks on your album are amazing, people are going to buy the whole album. If you have one good song and the rest filler, they're going to buy the good song. If half the tracks are stupid skits, many people will skip them. If an artist isn't giving his/her fans what they want, they should either accept it or do something about it.

If you're selling your music, the needs of the people you're selling it to come before your own. Otherwise, it's just masturbation.

true, but even if it is an archaïc format, a good album is more than a bunch of songs.
it's like a bundle of poetry, you grow to like the whole thing.

[Fm_Guy]

The consumer is going to get what he wants regardless. If the person doesn't want the whole album you can't hardnose them into buying the whole album especially if 8 of 10 songs are crap.

Don't make the same mistake that the music industry did regarding P2P. They will go get what they want somewhere else.

[sahiaman]

Originally Posted by Marty J

Good grief, there seems to be no end to the suffering of successful recording artists.

If all the tracks on your album are amazing, people are going to buy the whole album. If you have one good song and the rest filler, they're going to buy the good song. If half the tracks are stupid skits, many people will skip them. If an artist isn't giving his/her fans what they want, they should either accept it or do something about it.

If you're selling your music, the needs of the people you're selling it to come before your own. Otherwise, it's just masturbation.

Yeah, but he is arguing that since it is his product, he has the right to sell it in which ever way he wants. iTunes seems like its not a viable fullfillment service for his business model. Thats all.

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by Reptil

true, but even if it is an archaïc format, a good album is more than a bunch of songs.
it's like a bundle of poetry, you grow to like the whole thing.

I agree, but I don't believe anyone has the right to tell anyone else how to listen to music. If I don't share the artist's artistic vision and just want to listen to a few songs, that's up to me. The alternative is that I have to pay more for the whole album, and just skip the songs I don't like.

Let's face it, this is about money.

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by sahiaman

Yeah, but he is arguing that since it is his product, he has the right to sell it in which ever way he wants. iTunes seems like its not a viable fullfillment service for his business model. Thats all.

In iTunes there's a content delivery system that competes with illegal P2P networks, and some artists want to scupper that, driving people back to illegal downloads to get what they want. And when that happens, it'll all be someone else's fault. It always is. I am amazed at the endless capacity for people in the music business to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Marty J

I agree, but I don't believe anyone has the right to tell anyone else how to listen to music. If I don't share the artist's artistic vision and just want to listen to a few songs, that's up to me. The alternative is that I have to pay more for the whole album, and just skip the songs I don't like.

Let's face it, this is about money.

Yes it is. with a little creative business sense one could sell the whole album, AND a few favorite singles at the same time. Does itunes offer this?

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by Reptil

Yes it is. with a little creative business sense one could sell the whole album, AND a few favorite singles at the same time. Does itunes offer this?

I have seen albums where certain tracks are only available as part of the album, and not separately.

[sahiaman]

Originally Posted by Fm_Guy

The consumer is going to get what he wants regardless. If the person doesn't want the whole album you can't hardnose them into buying the whole album especially if 8 of 10 songs are crap.

Don't make the same mistake that the music industry did regarding P2P. They will go get what they want somewhere else.

Cable companies make you buy other stations just to get ESPN. Car companies make dealerships buy a crap model just to be able to get a high selling model on their lot. Why can't a record label make people buy a whole cd for one good song? Either that, or start selling iTunes hit singles for more money, and the filler tracks for 99cents. But iTunes doesn't give you that option. All he is asking for are options.

[initialsBB]

All it'll take is for Warner Music to say, "You know what, I'm with you," for us to shut 'em down. No more iPods! They won't have nothin' to play on their players!

LOL! The cluelessness of this quote kind of ruins any credibility the rest of the article had.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Marty J

I have seen albums where certain tracks are only available as part of the album, and not separately.

ok, thank you. for me that ends the discussion thumbsup

[drakewire]

I am likely to agree with Jayz and Dupri on this one, I feel like big business telling artists what to do, how to do it, and the whole mantra of a single's market is also just as archaic and exhausted.
The fact is, when you are breaking up a collective work, or an album, you are losing the creative direction of an album. In addition, not to be artsy fartsy, but it is more profitable to sell an entire album than it is a single. You may have a fan that only likes one song. This way they pay three times as much for the single, it still costs the same amount of money to produce an album... So there is recoup thats needed...
I am so Freaking tired of hearing what consumers want.. Shut The F&*k up, consumers wanted music 50 years ago, they will continue to want music with or without the internet 50 years from now.
I am also tired of hearing what Itunes can do for an artist, ask Tila Tequila, nothing much that you can't do with Snocap free. The average Ipod owner purchases only 15 songs a year from Itunes, yet people have hundreds of Mp3's on their Ipods, where are they getting them.... Ah yes, Piracy.... This is why, selling albums and boycotting internet distribution methods may be the next step forward in a backwards way to saving music....
Sure they can still copy the album, but with the advent of newer encoding methods we could allow for DRM that allows personal copying but not distribution...
As for the fans, if they are fans they will buy the album.... If they dont want the album, they wont buy it... Simple Supply and Demand... Radiohead, Courtney Love, NIN, Prince and others that are saying lets just give it away for free are falling helpless to a rather predictive outcome.
Failure

[abell1234]

The average Ipod owner purchases only 15 songs a year from Itunes, yet people have hundreds of Mp3's on their Ipods, where are they getting them.... Ah yes, Piracy....

Silly. I got mine from ripping my cds where did your mp3 come from?

[shanabit]

Originally Posted by Fm_Guy

The consumer is going to get what he wants regardless. If the person doesn't want the whole album you can't hardnose them into buying the whole album especially if 8 of 10 songs are crap.

Don't make the same mistake that the music industry did regarding P2P. They will go get what they want somewhere else.

Sure you can hardnose them into a whole album, it was done for YEARS.
And, it FORCED me to actually LISTEN to the tracks instead of making a 2 second snap judgement of the project as a whole. Many of the the not so liked tracks by the masses, I ended up liking.

Dont take it personal when your audience only wants ONE track of your 15 track CD you make. Youll have to decide at that point if you suck or if its just supply and demand or i-Pod in hand

Those 8 to 10 other filler tracks quality are ONLY in the eyes of the beholder BTW, just because YOU think the tracks suck doesnt mean everyone does.
Give them what they want and hope you can pay the rent Thats what corporate america wants you to do BTW, sell out your art
Escpecially APPLE
Throw away music

[drakewire]

Silly. I got mine from ripping my cds where did your mp3 come from?

LOL I dont own an Mp3 player.... If I did it certainly wouldnt be "cr-apple"

I own the CD's, better quality... ya knowthumbsup

Dont take it personal when your audience only wants ONE track of your 15 track CD you make. Youll have to decide at that point if you suck or if its just supply and demand or i-Pod in hand

Those 8 to 10 other filler tracks quality are ONLY in the eyes of the beholder BTW, just because YOU think the tracks suck doesnt mean everyone does.

A better idea would be to only release good songs, not filler tracks.... The Beatles did this quite well, Green Day still does... Lots of Artists do...

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by drakewire

Ah yes, Piracy.... This is why, selling albums and boycotting internet distribution methods may be the next step forward in a backwards way to saving music....

Yeah, all of the labels should boycott itunes and make it impossible to buy legal downloads. That will show the pirates!

[sahiaman]

Originally Posted by drakewire

I am likely to agree with Jayz and Dupri on this one, I feel like big business telling artists what to do, how to do it, and the whole mantra of a single's market is also just as archaic and exhausted.
The fact is, when you are breaking up a collective work, or an album, you are losing the creative direction of an album. In addition, not to be artsy fartsy, but it is more profitable to sell an entire album than it is a single. You may have a fan that only likes one song. This way they pay three times as much for the single, it still costs the same amount of money to produce an album... So there is recoup thats needed...
I am so Freaking tired of hearing what consumers want.. Shut The F&*k up, consumers wanted music 50 years ago, they will continue to want music with or without the internet 50 years from now.
I am also tired of hearing what Itunes can do for an artist, ask Tila Tequila, nothing much that you can't do with Snocap free. The average Ipod owner purchases only 15 songs a year from Itunes, yet people have hundreds of Mp3's on their Ipods, where are they getting them.... Ah yes, Piracy.... This is why, selling albums and boycotting internet distribution methods may be the next step forward in a backwards way to saving music....
Sure they can still copy the album, but with the advent of newer encoding methods we could allow for DRM that allows personal copying but not distribution...
As for the fans, if they are fans they will buy the album.... If they dont want the album, they wont buy it... Simple Supply and Demand... Radiohead, Courtney Love, NIN, Prince and others that are saying lets just give it away for free are falling helpless to a rather predictive outcome.
Failure

Yeah, its no doubt that people don't buy albums because its much easier to go to your brothers, sisters, and friends computer and burn a disc of mp3s. Unfortuately if its not iTunes ripping record labels off, its record labels ripping artists off. There will always be contempt that artists have for anyone expoliting their art I believe.

[abell1234]

I own the CD's, better quality... ya know

My cd's are on my ipod, the same quality .wav file

[drakewire]

Yeah, all of the labels should boycott itunes and make it impossible to buy legal downloads. That will show the pirates!

If Itunes wasnt around, how in your mind does this denote that it would be impossible to buy legal downloads? Ever heard of Micro-payments? That is you purchase it and are given a download link, Snocap is a good choice, there are hundreds others...

Piracy my friend will put us all out of business... If you dont agree with that, then lets just agree to completely disagree......


Abel,
Congrats! I didnt say you shouldnt own an Ipod or buy CD's, I said that a huge majority of Ipod users steal music... Or do you disagree with this assessment? When just this year it was reported that nearly 16 billion files have been traded online?

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by drakewire

I am likely to agree with Jayz and Dupri on this one, I feel like big business telling artists what to do, how to do it, and the whole mantra of a single's market is also just as archaic and exhausted.

The fact is, when you are breaking up a collective work, or an album, you are losing the creative direction of an album. In addition, not to be artsy fartsy, but it is more profitable to sell an entire album than it is a single. You may have a fan that only likes one song. This way they pay three times as much for the single, it still costs the same amount of money to produce an album... So there is recoup thats needed...
I am so Freaking tired of hearing what consumers want.. Shut The F&*k up, consumers wanted music 50 years ago, they will continue to want music with or without the internet 50 years from now.

I am also tired of hearing what Itunes can do for an artist, ask Tila Tequila, nothing much that you can't do with Snocap free. The average Ipod owner purchases only 15 songs a year from Itunes, yet people have hundreds of Mp3's on their Ipods, where are they getting them.... Ah yes, Piracy.... This is why, selling albums and boycotting internet distribution methods may be the next step forward in a backwards way to saving music....

Sure they can still copy the album, but with the advent of newer encoding methods we could allow for DRM that allows personal copying but not distribution...
As for the fans, if they are fans they will buy the album.... If they dont want the album, they wont buy it... Simple Supply and Demand... Radiohead, Courtney Love, NIN, Prince and others that are saying lets just give it away for free are falling helpless to a rather predictive outcome.
Failure

So the "mantra of a single's market is also just as archaic and exhausted", yet the mantra of an album market isn't? Why should a new content delivery system mimic the old one? Would you like CDs you have to turn over half-way through? Maybe they could make it so you have to rewind an iPod, then it would be more like our old Walkmans. What fun!

Personally, I like to have a cohesive collection of songs (aka an album). But that's no reason why everyone else has to purchase music that way.

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by drakewire

A better idea would be to only release good songs, not filler tracks.... The Beatles did this quite well, Green Day still does... Lots of Artists do...

Which is exactly why letting people pick and choose what songs they want is a good thing as far as albums are concerned. It encourages artists not to make albums with only two or three good songs (if even!).

[Joe Cole]

As much as bitching at the record industry is fun, guys like Dupri can always opt to do without the normal channels and distribute, market and sell their music themselves.

Let's see how many Bentley's they'll be buying then.

If they cannot come up with a true alternative, it is useless bitching.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by drakewire

If Itunes wasnt around, how in your mind does this denote that it would be impossible to buy legal downloads?

Well you said "This is why, selling albums and boycotting internet distribution methods may be the next step forward in a backwards way to saving music." implying that the labels should pull out of all legal download sites.

Originally Posted by drakewire

Piracy my friend will put us all out of business... If you dont agree with that, then lets just agree to completely disagree......

How is pulling out of iTunes going to end piracy? Dupri's idea that the labels somehow have power over Apple and can effect iPod sales is laughable. Ipods were already selling very well before itms even existed. If Universal pulled all of their music from itunes, people would just buy it elsewhere or download it illegally and still put it on their ipod. That doesn't effect apple's ipod sales in the slightest. The labels in my opinion are not exactly in a position of power at this point. It sucks for them and it's not really their fault but it sure as shit isn't apple's fault and the industry's antagonism toward apple is really stupid and misplaced. I mean, FFS this is not like Walmart censoring an artist's work and deciding what does or doesn't get distribution.

[sahiaman]

What I don't like is that iTunes doesn't let artist and labels price their singles more than 99 cents. Thats where I start to disagree with the iTunes model. If people say the hit single is worth more than the rest of the songs on that album, than the value of that hit single should be increased shouldn't it?

[drakewire]

Hmmm, I championed this distribution method in late 1998 when I graduated with a degree in Computer Engineering. However, people like Jobs have exploited it for the gain of the business, not the progression of Music as an Art Form. What if Books were released only in Chapters? Is this the New Business Model? Or how about Movies where you get to pay for 20 minutes of the Movie, then come back out and back in to see another 20 minutes? Or How about seeing a baseball game but only paying per inning. Is this the great concept for music? Its the same thing, entertainment... So why should musicians and recording engineers and everyone else who makes up our industry be the punching bags...

[T_R_S]

Maybe radio stations should only play the entire album too.

It seems the labels have not come up with a better tool than iTunes because they don't have the resources nor the innovative capacity to do it properly. Nobody is stopping anyone from trying.
As far as the comments in the article the first thing that comes to mind is that people who live in glass house should not throw stones
Sorry for the chezzy cliche'

[abell1234]

I said that a huge majority of Ipod users steal music... Or do you disagree with this assessment?

Yeah you're probably right. I just wanted to feel important, like I knew something. However I have an ipod with all my cds on it. And of my friends and family under half have bad, filthy, dirty, crime music on theirs.

[drakewire]

Maybe radio stations should only play the entire album too.

Uhh Radio is a promotion platform, this is why its free and why artists want on it so badly....