DANGER TWO BUS NOT IMPRESSED

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by chap
[b]If we're talking about the same CD, many of the pieces were recorded at different studios with different mic pres etc.

You're thinking of a different CD. He was referring to the Awesome DAWsum CD, which took the same 24 tracks and summed it in different DAW's as well as through a few consoles and summing boxes. We (I had a hand in this) did a good job of removing all the other variables. People had various opinions (including maintaining they heard differences between bit-identical mixes), but there was certainly no smoking gun. The D2B was one of the setups, and to my ears, if there was a real difference, it wasn't worth all the fuss.

I do think the science was sound as far as isolating summing as the only variable and providing a blind comparison of many different platforms. However, since we weren't "mixing into" each system and only passively listening to the results there may well be subtle differences that would not be uncovered unless you were actually using that particular system.

-R

[mardyk]

Originally posted by dim light
I'm horrified!!!

Have you done "the fatso cross the whole mix" thing? It's not funny...

I think it's great...I love the sound of the Fatso buss compressor on the mix buss. 2-3 db GR glues everything together. Perfect for rock.

[logicll]

HAHA...

Fab..I remember you at NAMM 07. I loved the SONY OXFORD demo it was funny. I kept saying "fair" after every sentence for weeks...lol

[chap]

After many years of using the D2B, I'm more impressed with it now than ever.
As times have changed and home recording is multiplying faster than horny rabbits,
part of my work has evolved into more mixing and mastering (everyone is a producer now). I find the D2B one of the quickest ways to bring some dimension to the flat sounding projects that people do on the 'less expensive' versions of PT etc...

Also, in terms of functionality, it's a great place to put inserts as they avoid a level of conversion. I'm still on this train as are many happy clients.

back to work......

chap

I miss this place but duty calls.

[Kronos147]

Originally Posted by ClubAlvinStudio

As far as my long winded sentences go you can add your own commas if you're not too stupid to do that. Sorry for leaving them out as I see some of you need them to understand what I am saying (writing).

Like I said earlier I went to their studio with an open mind because I was very interested in buying their product, and after the demo I was not impressed. I wished that I was, but I felt that their unit took away some definition in sound. I was not alone on this either as I went with another top engineer (I respect his ears and opinion); he felt the same way. We heard the D2B/192(?) versus the 192 alone and with out and we could hear a big difference.

I was ready to buy, but I felt the 192 sounded better on its own, this is only my opinion. I have friends that swear by them. I really wanted to hear something different, and I did, in a bad way. Thanks for all your replys and I'm not trying to dog out Dangerous studio at all.

I think you are saying you listened to Dangerous Box summing individual outs from a 192 versus summing in Pro Tool using a stereo out from the 192. Unfortunately the Dangerous web page appears to be down, no doubt from this thread, so I am not sure if it has 8 or 16 in.

I remember checking out the unit online at one point and deciding its configuration was not what I was looking for. I think it was 8 in only, which, IMO, is not enough. Sixteen is still a little short but I think I could live with the Neve 8804/8816 + Avocet option.

So as a summer, if you only have 8 ins, what are you sending the Dangerous 2 Bus? 4 stems? I am not sure you gain much there.

I personally think that mono kick, snare, and bass, and lead with two stems would be a better comparison. Did you and your respected audio chum try this?

The comments on your writing are based on the fact that the exchange of information is more efficient with concise, clearly stated, detailed, and complete information.

Good luck in your audio endeavors.

[chap]

The D2B is 16 x 2 x 2 with aux interfaces for meters, monitor etc.....


I out put 24 mono analog stems or the equivalent. Never needed more.

Haven't posted in a year now it's 2 posts in a day! What's happening to me?!?!


chap

[Kronos147]

Originally Posted by chap

The D2B is 16 x 2 x 2 with aux interfaces for meters, monitor etc.....

Ahhh, I stand corrected. And in the time I went to dinner with family and back it seems the Dangerous site is back up.

I guess my thought of the 8804/8816 combo over the D2B would be the stereo aux sends that I would want for a headphone cue mix. Otherwise, the D2B looks pretty beefy.

Originally Posted by chap

Haven't posted in a year now it's 2 posts in a day! What's happening to me?!?!

chap

Welcome back. Keep up the good work.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Ruphus

Shipshape,

Great avatar! LOVE IT!!!

Ruphus

From the Pixar film "For the Birds"
A Very Funny film ...

[SK1]

I've owned a dangerous 2 bus-lt for about 2 or three years now. I like it because it helps me use my 8 class A compressors and 4 class a eq's when I'm mixing. The outboard is fun for me, and helps me get better sounds quicker IMO. Recall isn't a big deal, due to the fact that I made a bunch of recall sheets for all the outboard.

The very first impression that I had when plugging in the dangerous was that the kick had more definition and presence in the mix.

I have no problems with mixing ITB.

I have thought about trying a folcrom.

I know eventually, I'll have to move on to a real mixer with automation ....... ie amek angela 2, ssl e/g, neotek, or even a tonelux setup.

I can't wonder what the original posters agenda is . With all the vendors and manufactures trying to gain influence here, using Gearslutz as a marketing tool. It would suck to see them start bashing each other, posting as ghosts, or engaging in negative marketing campaigns.

Word.

[Phil Cibley]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Danderous Two Bus

A little Head and Shoulders should clear that right up.

[Phil Cibley]

Originally Posted by djui5

I think this offically get's the vote for the longest sentence ever created....

No. That would be the last chapter of Ulysses by James Joyce.

[chap]

and when you have the annotated version it get's longer.
Makes Faulkner look like a piker.

Originally Posted by Phil Cibley

No. That would be the last chapter of Ulysses by James Joyce.

[Jeff Juliano]

I just got a 2 Bus and the Dangerous ST. I am extremely impressed with both pieces. Great gear made by a great company.

The guy that started this thread is a tool.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by LaLaFaV

I had a D2BLT and after a month of use, I couldn't justify the price to myself because it didn't make my mixes better. ITB is just more efficient for the way I work.

You will hardly hear a positive-effect of analogue-summing if the mix is not good. I have assisted in a big AB test and I can tell you that we found this out as one major fact.

The mix must be near perfect.
Analogue summing makes sense when your mixes have a good constant quality.

[chap]

not to overstate the obvious but.....if your mixes suck, they will suck coming out of an SSL, Neve, Icon, D2B or MBox. You can't take the suck out of suck.
That said, many of us are paid to try

peace,

chap

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by chap

not to overstate the obvious but.....if your mixes suck, they will suck coming out of an SSL, Neve, Icon, D2B or MBox. You can't take the suck out of suck.
That said, many of us are paid to try

peace,

chap

A little bit non diplomatic but this is the simple formula of what I meant.....
no kidding.... the summing is audible when the mix is not sucking...I do not know why this is so but we made this experience in the test.

Yes someone could think a summing box is something like a FXs.
But it is not slamming in your face!!!

You can hear slight changes in reverbs and a little more round feeling in the low end.
But it is not a dramatic change like some users expect from it.

It is an expensive luxury in the high end daw league and is in my opinion not worth a lot of money.
For some people which are fishing for the last 5% sound OK if it makes them happy.
But remember the last 5% SOUND will cost more as twice the $$$ as you have already invested.

I can live with 95% sound quality.

Otherwise I have to buy a SSL console one day.

[jackdaley1@mac.c]

Originally Posted by ClubAlvinStudio

As far as my long winded sentence's go you can add your own comma's if your not to stupid to do that, sorry for leaving them out as i see some of you need them to understand what i am saying, any way like i said earlier i went to there studio with an open mind because i was very interested in buying there product, and after the demo i was not impressed. I wish i was , i felt that there unit took away some deffinition in sound , i was not alone on this either as i went with another top engineer that i respect his ears and opinion, and he felf the same way. We heard the D2B with the 192 and with out and you could hear a big driffrents, they are the one's who set everything up and i was ready to buy, but i felt the 192 sounded better on its own, this is only my opinion, i do have friends that swear by them, so i really wanted to hear something driffrent , and i did . Thanks for all your reply's and im not trying to dog out dangerous studio at all .
(sorry guys at dangerous)

gottosayI REALLY DON'T FELFTHE SAME AS YOUGUYS

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

You will hardly hear a positive-effect of analogue-summing if the mix is not good.

my own experience is that analog summing makes it easier to dial in a mix from scratch, because things move and blend more the way i want them to.

when i mix on a desk or into a summing box, the majority of my efforts go into blending and gluing the elements, and i feel like i have a lot of options to choose from in terms of possible balances.

when i mix itb, the majority of my efforts go into separating the elements out from a blurry mass, and generating a cohesive vibe among sounds that seem disconnected. worse, i feel like there's one set of balances that works and everything else is just ''. it takes me longer, and the result is never as pleasing.

that may be more about me than the tools; but it's a consistent experience for me, and i make a habit of yielding to the reality that presents itself to me.

i believe that people who attempt to do a simple a/b of outboard summing miss the point; it's not a processor, it's the cornerstone of a methodology.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[chap]

ditto that.
I have been away from this site for awhile for 2 reasons.
OK, this isn't a reason but a disclaimer. I love this site and used to visit it daily.
now, the reasons.

1) don't care if you agree with this but in addition to playing more music, I've been involved in the Obama campaign (very time consuming)

2) the more important reason is that I'm swamped with work. I'm juggling 3 one hour PBS documentaries that I'm scoring and I'm producing 3 records as well as my usual mixing and mastering.
Every musical client is offered a choice of ITB or outboard. We A/B things and the 'recall' issues are explained. Only local, one off projects end up staying ITB. Every record
gets mixed outboard (client's choice) I keep broadcast ITB because of the enormous recalls and the place of music on TV. Musicians hear the difference. The evidence?
My calendar:))

there are no rules, just these little choices.
I find that ubik's post speaks well for me. It's a way to work that takes away some of the work.
cheers,

chap

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by chap

1) don't care if you agree with this but in addition to playing more music, I've been involved in the Obama campaign (very time consuming)
chap

please, please, please, please, please, please..........





WIN!!!!!!!!!

good luck,



from the other side of the world.

Sorry for the hijack.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by ClubAlvinStudio

Well today i got to demo the dangerous two bus out and i did not like it and will skip this one, i went to there studio and did an a/b with a 192 and the dangerous two bus and decided that it didnot meet my standards. To me the digi 192 blew away summing with the D2B , D2b reminded me of putting a BBE across the bus, i felt that the D2B took away low mid definition and upper mid definition which is very important in mixing, like i said reminded me of a BBE, and i went there with another engineer friend and he felt the same way. I kept telling the guy i wont mention his name that it took away low end definition and he keep trying to tell me about the hi end, duh that wasn't the problem so im going to skip this one, not saying that i am a authority on sound but can tell the differents of lossed low mids so i hope the people at dangerous don't get mad at me, but i tried to be on your side, but this time digi won out. Not that im a digi fan either, I do own a digi rig too that i use, but i am not happy with digidesign because of there marketing policy and deep pockets, ive been with digi through there session 8 days all the way up to the mix plus situation, and if you ask me there was nothing wrong with 16 bits nobody complained back then and everyone is chasing the dragon now . PEACE CLUB ALVIN STUDIO NYC

I imagine its a joke! or you must have a terrible monitor section and monitors..only guys with a bad monitor system would say something like that! of course! they can not hear anything! and also you may do not understand headroom and stereo image as well!!

[chap]

To Club Alvin (and the Chipmonks?,
No offense but if your ears are true to your post, you are in the wrong business.
You say "blew away" when others claim to hear no difference and when, on a daily basis,
those of us who use the D2B, both hear and understand the need for such a piece.
While it's not for everyone, for you to use that kind of hyperbole suggests to me that you are a sales affiliate or that maybe you should use an M Box for your summing needs.
Please think before you post.

really,

chap

[Neale Eckstein]

(It's funny to me that these old threads never die. I think I posted to this thread a couple of years ago, but I realize that new people find them. I just got notified that there had been some new posts to this old thread)

I've now been using outboard summing from a pair of Digi 192s for about 4 years. First I had D2B lite, and then got the Phoenix Nicerizer. I wanted the sound of the box as well as the ability to pan individual channels. It's also got a couple of other nice features.

I work with a lot of clients that have home setups and bring me their mixes for finishing. After listening, I'll come up with an outboard routing similar to what's been described throughout this and other threads. Then make adjustments as needed to the existing mixes. Some times a lot is needed and sometimes it goes very quickly with the more experienced clients.

Last week I worked on some tracks for a band called Water Cure, and can share the specifics of the routing and pieces of outboard used if anyone is interested. The producer/engineer of the project works full time doing 5.1 mixing in NYC for VoomHD. But he came to my studio because they only have "in the box capabilities." In a very short time, we had his "in the box" mixes really slamming. You can really hit analog compressor like an API 2500 or Smart C2 in a way that you just can't hit a plug-in, no matter how much it emulates the original.

On my own projects, I'll leave it all "in the box" for convenience while I'm tracking. I'm often working with other producers and it just makes life easier, but I sure would hate to give up the magic on the final mixes that comes from taking 16 outputs through the right gear as opposed to the two I have when I stay "in the box".

Neale Eckstein
FoxRun.Org

[AJR]

I couldn't disagree more.
i use the dangerous 2 and it hands down blows away mixing in the box.
its wider, phatter, louder, thicker. Night and Day. there are many variables.
our stems are going through neves, millenium etc. high end cables, all these things are factors, one piece of gear can sound a million different ways. some people can make anything sound like crap. (i'm not saying you, just in general). My friend Vlado Meller
mastered 21 records that were up for grammys last year... guess how his rig is tricked out? Dangerous 2 components. He's the reason i switched. this guy is as golden ears as one gets.

ajax

(ajr)