DANGER TWO BUS NOT IMPRESSED

[BevvyB]

SO WHAT

[Sammas]

Originally posted by Sammas

I guess all thats left to ask is, did you monitor out through the D2B? and mix the project using the monitoring that comes out of the D2B? or did you just whack the D2B on the end of your 192 and think it would suddenly breathe new life into your protools mix?

[steins]

Originally posted by ClubAlvinStudio
the guitar center is supposed to be a dealer for dangerous & digi , and they recomended not buying the two bus and stay with digi 192 , i thought that was cheesy , but after i heard the driffrents i'll keep on mixing with the 192

A former recpit Troll...?

Stein Tore

[Teacher]

Just because his opinion differs from the norm doesn't mean he is a troll. In fact there are 2 notable members on this forum that went on the record and thought the D2B SUCKED....

[EsherOne]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...dangerous+2bus

Yeah this is total bullshit and you can tell just by the way his post reads. The link above is to some previous wanker action you may or may not
recall.

Brandon

[Bosco]

I recently took a Dangerous 2bus out of my rig as you can see in the classifieds.The reason I took it out was due to panning reasons with outboard,I was finding hard LorR or center when patching outboard was not an option in the way I mix.

I am now using the insert I/O in PT's to patch in outboard,and with the addition of ADC I find it a pleasure.

Now,the one thing I am finding is I am now reaching for wide plugs for my Master fader,there is a lack of depth and width to my mix no question about it.I am leaning on the hopes that I am just not use to mixing this way,and must adjust.I am not going to blame it on the system or gear.At this point I am going to try and work on my ability to mix "in the box"with some outboard patched in as I mentioned.

As far as definition go's,man I personally like that smooth rounded out feeling I get from external analog,but everyones got there own thing.

By the way I don't post very much due to lack of time,but I do read alot of good stuff on this forum.

Peace Bosco

[not_so_new]

Gimmeabreak!! Look ClubAlvin your post is a little trollish, sorry. Maybe you have valid points and maybe you really do not like the system, fine. You have every right to dislike something that you have honestly tried and were not happy with, all cool.

BUT when you post like a troll do not be surprised that you are treated like one. How does a troll post you might ask?? A troll (to me) posts with poor grammar and very fuzzy claims without any real world technical observations to back it up. You can't compare a mix on a new piece of gear unless you try that mix to the old gear as well. There was a very big thread here a few weeks back about methods to test external summing with many different opinions flashed around, most of which were valid to one degree or another. You used none of these suggestions in your test?? That smacks of troll bait to me and judging by some of the responses on this thread I would have to say others agree.

So ClubAlvin I think we all agree that we are happy to hear your comments but only after you have more details to provide that include some quality a/b testing. Until then I for one would much rather just see everyone stop posting and let the thread die a nice quite death that it deserves.

Just my 2 cents...

[Neale Eckstein]

I'll leave the troll question to others, but I want to counter the opinion expressed. I've been using a D2B LT for about 8 months now and for me, the resulting mixes are noticeably improved.

I believe that comparable mixes can be achieved using the best plug-ins. I also do not believe the HD mix bus is crap. What makes it work for me is that once I've routed all the tracks to outboard gear (which requires some time and thought), it's much easier to get the mix balanced and color provided by the analog gear enhances the mix. Simply put, it's a lot easier to reach over and turn an output knob on a compressor up a little more than doing what seemed to be and endless battle of re-balancing digital faders everytime something that was already at the top needed a little more level. The headroom on the D2B is trememdous.

I do believe you need a reasonable amount of outboard gear and 16 good converters to really take advantage of the setup, but I certainly don't have racks and racks of gear compared to many on this forum.

I've had 2 different mix engineers rent my studio recently and they both thought is was much easier to get to the end result than staying in the box. I still use a fair number of plug-ins, too, particularly the better digital EQ's.

Neale Eckstein
www.foxrun.org

[RichT]

Originally posted by djui5
You think everyone can't see a new post in just one forum?


posting that many posts will cause mass confusion

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! I'm confused

(Runs about like headless chicken)



Sorry back to the topic...you didn't like it.

So?

[ClubAlvinStudio]

Post edited by moderator

[RichT]

(edited by moderator)

Tut tut, never a moderator around when you need one....

[not_so_new]

...thus proving my point that you are a troll...

Oh and nice post....

[ClubAlvinStudio]

It seems that a few people in here are more concerned about grammer and diction than equipment use , i went to the source and was not impressed ! At lease i made the trip there, can't say that about most of you here .

[djui5]

Originally posted by ClubAlvinStudio
It seems that a few people in here are more concerned about grammer and diction than equipment use , i went to the source and was not impressed ! At lease i made the trip there, can't say that about most of you here .

And that's true...you can't say that about most of us here.

Alvin,

If I may suggest some things. There's nothing wrong with coming on here and stating how you feel about a piece of gear. It benefits everyone and causes some of the great discussions that happen on this forum every day.

What you shouldn't do is make a post without any punctuation at all that looks like someone with ADHD wrote it, then copy that post and stick it in every forum on this site. That's really not necessary.

Also..you didn't describe what you were listening to. Was it one of your mixes or some commercial disk? You also didn't describe how things were set-up and what equipment was involved....

[not_so_new]

Man I am not diss'n you, it's all cool. You say that it sucks but you didn't really back up the claim. There are many strong viewpoints here about external summing and to jump in and say "I AM NOT IMPRESSED" without saying anything about "why" you are not impressed and more importantly "how" you got to this conclusion is not helping anyone.

I have not tried the D2B yet, actually I am leaning towards the Folcrom myself because I would like to use my cool pre's to analog it up a bit. But when I see a thread that opens with "DANGER TWO BUS NOT IMPRESSED" of course I am going to check it out, I am thinking of moving heavily in this direction very soon and I would really like to hear other opinions about it. I got to your first post and it was almost imposable to read (sorry man but while grammar is not that important it sure does help the reader).

The thing you are missing here is (and I hate to speak for everyone so I am not) I think we all DID want to hear what you had to say and how that was relevant to our individual taste but we did not get that from your post.

No harm but you could help us to get your point if you used some better writing techniques like periods and capital letters and then include more details about how you got to this rather strong conclusion.

If you want to provide details I for one will be all ears but if you want to keep flaming then just drop it and move on because I am sure we ALL have better things to do.

[Jules]

OK opinions have been expressed - points made.

Time to put this thread to bed.

Jules
Gearslutz.com admin

[shipshape]

Club Alvin..if you are for real then your method of testing the Danger(ous) 2 buss was bordering on pathetic. At least do it inyour own studio......how do you know whether the dude in the store split the mix out to 16 channels etc.or just put it across the 2outputs of the mix.
It sounds about as controlled an experiment as umm......well something totally uncontrolled and not an accurate way to test any piece of gear.
Dangerous or anyother company will let you take the gear to your own studio and evaluate.
As for you not liking Digidesign for marketshare problems etc......you should probably stop driving your car also 'cos the company who made it might have too big of a market share also ..that kind of reasononing to boycott equipment never ceases to amaze me.

[ClubAlvinStudio]

I guess some of you didn't understand what i was talking about .

Well i went ot (dangerous studio) not (the guitar center) and had a representative of (dangerous studio) setup a demo for me .

They provided the material for me to listen too that they thought represented the best sound you could get out of there mix i heard .

We A/B the mix coming off the 192 alone and then the 192 going through the D2B and yes there was a distinct driffrence.

one thing i notice right away was that the kick drum disappeared , lost all attack on kick ,

like i said alittle to much smoothing for me , reminded me of a BBE 862,

i know that sounds harsh to say ,

i can't remember what the speakers were , but they were not genelec's but they did sound good,

there was a pair of ns'10's there to which i listen too also , same deffinition problem ,

i did go there with the intention of buying as i waited along time to get my demo set up with them .

and i was going to custom order a few other things that they make , i wish it could of worked out,

im really sorry that it didn't work out .

if protools wasn't industry standard i wouldn't use it either .


now i guess your going to ask me what i would use instead !


as for shipshape's question i did try to get a demo at the guitar center which was bias , thats why i called dangerous and went straight to the source.

if the D2B works for you then thats cool it didn't impress me enough to spend another $10'000 for a monitor bus add on to my already exploding protools rig .

PEACE

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by ClubAlvinStudio

if the D2B works for you then thats cool it didn't impress me enough to spend another $10'000 for a monitor bus add on to my already exploding protools rig .

PEACE

Its one thing i've said all along that certain types of music actually gel better ITB than OTB.

OTB or external summing is not the cure all for everything.

It has its own pitfalls as well as strengths.

You have to learn how to mix through it, the same you would ITB.

I am suprised though that the kick disappeared though.

Its usually the opposite actually(the kick and the bass usually start to stand out by themselves).

Also remember the D2B has the gain switch in the front and maybe that just needed to be engaged.

[not_so_new]

Hey ClubAlvin cool post!! I think that is what I was looking for.

Yeah I am kind of suprised the kick disappeared as well. ?? Very interesting. I have no expereince with D2B AT ALL so maybe something was wrong with it? I can't imagine this would be the case since the dangerous rep was there...

I have hear people talk about D2B here and I got the general impression that the difference between ITB and external summing was rather subtle. That would explain why some like it and some don't but to hear a drastic change like you did is very interesting. Anyone else expereince anything like this???

I don't know if it would change my mind much because as I posted before I am leaning towards the Folcrom myself so I can choose my makeup gain. BUT if I had the same expreience as you I would be turned off as well.

[steins]

ClubAlvin, thanks for the informative post (the last one, that is ;-). As a person in market for a d2B or other summing device myself, I will have this in the back of my mind when I eventually get to auditioning some of the summing devices available.

Stein Tore

[Ruphus]

Shipshape,

Great avatar! LOVE IT!!!

Ruphus

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor

You have to learn how to mix through it, the same you would ITB.

I am suprised though that the kick disappeared though.

Its usually the opposite actually(the kick and the bass usually start to stand out by themselves).

Also remember the D2B has the gain switch in the front and maybe that just needed to be engaged. [/b]

Yes indeed, when the box was demoed to me at AES (on 2 separate occasions) the kick and bass certainly did stand out when it was switched to the D2B from the internal Protools mix. In fact, when we soloed the kick drum track it "stood out" as well (what is the sound of one track summing?). In fact, you could actually see a greater woofer excursion on the kick going through the D2B.

Yes, I believe that gain switch in the front might have a lot to do with the sound.

In truth, why would anybody expect the kick and bass to do anything drastic one way or the other unless somebody's futzing with the volume?

-R

[arimaka]

Sorry to jump in so late.

I haven't tried the 2-buss but I am thinking very strongly about getting one, It was highly recommended by fletcher over folcrom and other summing boxes.


I think the main advantage of analog summing is that you can integrate analog eq's and dynamics (being carefull with the automation since it's post fader) into your digital mix. It's also very importnt what A/D you use at the end of the chain, I was thinking 2 channel lavry blue...

Calvin, I just think your full of it.

[Bobo]

I have been using D2bus mixing for few albums.... I would say it's easiler to mix, easiler to have big image.. and I like the sound of my Mytek and now Apgoess DA-16X. I think mix ITB is totally fine. I especially like the 6db push on the box. Of course, analog summing cost a lot of $.... D2bus+2xMytek 8x96. for this budget u can get few real good outboard to mix ITB.

[tanker]

I have been using D2bus mixing for few albums.... I would say it's easiler to mix, easiler to have big image..

Same here. I use the db2 Lt. vers.
I reccomend it.

[jpaudio]

If it didn't impress you, you weren't listening for the right things in the first place, or you don't appreciate what it's actually doing. Nothing wrong with either, but let's not fault the product.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by ClubAlvinStudio

if the D2B works for you then thats cool it didn't impress me enough to spend another $10'000 for a monitor bus add on to my already exploding protools rig .

Damn boy, where do you shop???

[jpaudio]

If it didn't impress you, you weren't listening for the right things in the first place, or you don't appreciate what it's actually doing. Nothing wrong with either, but let's not fault the product.

[not_so_new]

I haven't tried the 2-buss but I am thinking very strongly about getting one, It was highly recommended by fletcher over folcrom and other summing boxes.

I hve not tried either but I am leaning in this direction and I would like to hear someones take that has.

Fletcher, if you are reading this why do you rate the D2B over the Folcrom?? I am interetsted to hear you