Poll: A poor paying career in music or a well paid one in something else? Be honest!

[juicylime]

Forget it's the real world and imagine that things are black and white. You have the choice between doing what you love to do with your music be it produce/write/perfom/whatever and only ever making enough to get by. No nice house, no decent car, no long holidays. Let's say it's below the average industrial workers wage. But you're doing what you want the way you want......OR..... You could have a great house, private tuition for the sprogs, flash car and never have to worry about money doing something in which you have absolutely zero love for and you can't play music.

Which would you pick? Be honest!

[GravityRobert]

I've decided NOT to study audio engineering for a reason. I want money to spend (on gear for instance) and not having to get in debt to buy stuff. Get a real job and keep the recording for fun. I case it blows up big you can always decide to go for it (and if it stops after a while go back to original profession). The music recording business as we know (with studios and lots of money to be made) it is pretty much done anyway

[vernier]

You need to expand your head ..it isn't an either/or choice.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by vernier

You need to expand your head ..it isn't an either/or choice.

Your wisdom runs deep Vernier, enlightened I now am.

[Kiwiburger]

The drive to make music is a blessing and a curse. You can't shake it off - so there really is no choice, is there?

Being sensible - health is more important than wealth. Being poor and damaging your health doing unhealthy things is just stooopid. Being rich and damaging your health doing unhealthy things is equally stooopid.

That attitude of "doing what I want, the way I want" can be self destructive. I think true success is more likely to come from "doing what they want, the way they want" - but keeping it on your own terms.

Go for the Win/Win.

[espen askelad]

I have two low paying jobs that both involve lots of relatively expensive equipment. Good thing I enjoy 'em both enough to deal with living like a bum to afford it. If I were in a position to be producing commercial pop stuff though I'd honesty say it'd be option #2, but that's based on my opinion of that genre. And I'd do that. I wouldn't like the music 98% of the time, but it'd be a job to take seriously and bust my ass at, and I'd expect proper repayment. I'm willing to forgo financial glory for the stuff I work on now, as no one's making much of anything from it. Labor of love.

[drBill]

The poll needs more options. It's too biased and black/white as it sits. With a family you can't be completely sold out to your passions. You have responsibilities with a "higher calling" than music, but I wouldn't want to do a job I hated either. More options!!

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by juicylime

No nice house, no decent car, no long holidays. Let's say it's below the average industrial workers wage. But you're doing what you want the way you want......OR.....

Long holidays? Nobody in the US gets those anyway. And I have the decent paying day job now and still can't afford a "flash car." The real question is can I stay in LA, afford a place to live, my $500 health insurance bills and support a dependent while making music for a living? If so, I'm in. But if I have to move to Kansas, eat ramen and go without health insurance to make a go of it then I'm content to leave it as a hobby.

[Brad McGowan]

I have a non-music related day job I really enjoy and it pays me fairly well. I then have plenty of cash to support my desire to build and own cool audio toys as well as play music with friends and run a part-time studio. I think balance is key. I don't see any reason to choose one over the other. I think I would go nuts if music was my full time gig. Dealing with musicians can be emotionally draining.

Brad

[deuc647]

gt a career that you love, i work in a hospital 3 days a week and have 4 days off to mess with music, i drive a nice car and still have money to buy m case of erdinger dark, life is good, i say do something you enjoy and then do what you want. i love my job

[hitmaker]

As somebody already mentioned, it's not either or. You can be a full-time musician and still make decent money. Hell, if you're willing to commercialize what you're doing, you may even cash in big time. You can still make good money with music. The people who disagree are either not good businessman or just have no clue how much money is really being made in this industry. CD sales may be down, but everything else is up. There's still lots of cash for everyone to make.

[theblue1]

I freelanced and moonlighted in commercial studios in the 80s. (I was marketing director of a small electronics manufacturer and later a freelance database developer during the day)

In the 90s I had a little 16 track project studio in a room and a half of my house and took mostly demo and radio documentary work.

It was fun and exciting for a while in the 80s (though I got stiffed good a couple times by record labels) and it was fun putting together my own studio (I'd had a 4 track rig and an 8 track half inch but things didn't take off 'til I got a couple ADATs).

But eventually I realized I no longer had what it takes to work on other people's music all the time. I had grown to hate much of my work.

(The radio stuff and some jingles were okay -- because they were over quick. It was working on the same stuff over and over that was killing me. But that's the province of project studios, of course.)

Now I only work on my own music and have re-devoted myself to my business career. Unlike some of my label clients, my business clients have never stiffed me. (A couple of slow-pays, yeah.)


But more power to you guys and gals who can deliver your best work day after day to a wide range of talents (whether you like the music or hate it). That's what folks pay you for and it's one sign of a true professional.

[DowntownScience]

Call me Cuba Gooding Jr!

EDIT: Is anybody else perplexed at the trashy bit parts an actor as good as Cuba Gooding is getting?
The 'Bad Guy' in 'Norbit', 'Nicky Barnes' in 'American Gangster'. Insane. :(

[frans]

The day job pays the bills (I am a cartoonist) and the music/studio ... oh, it got me bills payed in the summer, while I fell out with Disney big time! So... whatever. I got no choice anyway, as a lot of you. Compulsive about sound and music.

[rawdigits]

Originally Posted by GravityRobert

I've decided NOT to study audio engineering for a reason. I want money to spend (on gear for instance) and not having to get in debt to buy stuff. Get a real job and keep the recording for fun. I case it blows up big you can always decide to go for it (and if it stops after a while go back to original profession). The music recording business as we know (with studios and lots of money to be made) it is pretty much done anyway

Originally Posted by drBill

The poll needs more options. It's too biased and black/white as it sits. With a family you can't be completely sold out to your passions. You have responsibilities with a "higher calling" than music, but I wouldn't want to do a job I hated either. More options!!

Hi

While I am in a time where I have to ask me whether I want to go study music production & audio engineering or something else which will pay the bills this thread is very welcome to see your opinions.

First I wanted to study audio engineering very badly..I talked with some older engineers about exactly this stuff we're discussing here..

I changed a little my point of view cause I am kind of the guy that just wants this without looking/ thinking long term..

It can be very unhealthy if you have the pressure of earning money of this and honestly I can't find myself dealing with this pressure that you always have in your head..if you can't enjoy other moments and let your mind go, instead thinking ....should be in the studio now..doing this doing that.. but that's just me..it can get very unhealthy.. I also want to support my music which is not mainstream pop or something like that..

I share gravity's opinion.. if it works out for me then it's really great..and if not I always have a job which pays my bills..

Like Vernier mentioned it's shouldn't be an either or choice...it could be..

I also think the poll should have more options..

[PhilE]

I think the 3rd option is pointless- surely the question is would you do the music even if the pay was low? For me yes... I also believe that is very closely linked to the pride I put into my work... if you do a deal with my manager that means I am doing a mix on spec you dont get less effort than if you pay full rates. I care about the product more than the money.... the money is necessary to live otherwise I wouldnt charge anything over points- no matter who the client was.

[chrisso]

If you really have the music bug you have no choice.

No one goes into a career in music knowing the outcome - whether they'll make good money or not.
Most people start out making very little money for several years.
If at that stage you give yourself an either/or question like this......you shouldn't be doing music.

[Empire Prod]

Me likey music.

[BudgetMC]

I realized long ago that there were lots of people doing music who were WAY more talented than me... whether playing music or recording music.

I'm plenty good to get local gigs, so I get to do my thing and get paid for it. But making a living? Actually, I did it for a year... playing in two bands, hosting a blues jam, and running sound for other folks. I could afford to live in a tiny appartment and keep my old car moving. Luckily, I don't do coke, so I could still make ends meet. I'm glad I did it for a while, but I'm even gladder I eventually landed a real job in my professional field (where I am way more talented than most other people, thank you very much).

So, much as I love music, the answer is no, I wouldn't do it for a living if it left me poor. But that isn't the point. Music provides me with a different kind of capital. Heck... I might not even do it if it left me rich. Turning one's hobbie into a job can sometimes ruin it. I wouldn't want to fish for a living, either. In fact, the reason why I named my studio "RubberBiscuit" is because I used to record people for free... but I had to like them a lot.

[joelpatterson]

I never felt like this was a choice that I could consciously make, I'm just a sucker for the siren songs of my inner whims.... got any spare change?

[paultools]

The only way I have made any money over the last 25+ years is through music. It has taken me all over the country, and I have seen/heard some awesome things, and have certainly aquired my share of 8 million stories.

That being said, another experienced engineer put things into perspective for me;
He points out that a plumber (no dis) can show up with a few hundred dollars worth of tools in a box and ask for twice what I charge per hour, and the consumer doesn't blink.

I'm sitting here, wanting a $3500 Neve Summing box, a $13,000 dollar HD3 system, $6500 worth of Apogee converters, a $1500 dollar Duende rack, $5000 dollars worth of Chandler Germs... etc, etc, etc... on top of the strong 5 figures I have already invested....
I could buy all that gear, but I would not be able to raise my rate by $10 dollars!

There may be a handful of music engineers getting $75/hour pr more...
My Lawyer bills me $450 dollars an hour to pull up contract templates in a word processor and make a few edits...

Oh to be CLA...

[FFTT]

In my teens and 20's of course there was no other possible choice for me , but to play
music full time regardless of steady income, but once you make that choice to get married and then to raise a family, that choice forces you to provide for your family
sacrificing your own personal dreams.

Could I earn $60k+ per year steadily playing bass if I had completely dedicated myself
to the profession, maybe for a while, but I made a choice and others depend on me
to provide a roof over their heads, health insurance, cars, college tuition and hopefully
a better life than I had.

Now severely hearing impaired, all I can look forward to is trying to leave something
of worth behind.

My kids know that I sacrificed my own personal dreams for them and they respect
me for it.

We used to joke about their grandfather with over $30K in HO trains in his basement
from one end to the other. Now I'm the old geezer spending all my spare time down here in my basement equally consumed by my hobby.

[Poopypants]

Originally Posted by juicylime

Forget it's the real world and imagine that things are black and white. You have the choice between doing what you love to do with your music be it produce/write/perfom/whatever and only ever making enough to get by. No nice house, no decent car, no long holidays. Let's say it's below the average industrial workers wage. But you're doing what you want the way you want......

Pretty accurate description of my life right now...

Originally Posted by vernier

You need to expand your head ..it isn't an either/or choice.

And a pretty accurate description of how I wish I had seen it when I was younger. It's NOT an either/or choice and I have some peers who have demostrated it.

Life is really about how you spend your time and not how you spend your money, so the poor artist's life isn't bad... but it could be better... mostly by having more money to make more art...

[BadJones]

Forgetting the real world as you say, I would be perfectly happy being poor and doing what I love to do. Unfortunately in the real world once you have dependants you do what's best for them by doing what ever it takes. Which for me makes music a hobby and not a career. I wish it was the other way around but you go where life takes you. Being poor was not an option for me when it came to my wife and kid.

[henryrobinett]

I made the decision long ago, -- I was still in high school, or before. I knew then I'd be happier in music. I asked myself, at that tender age, what if I were 50 and still HAVING to do $50 gigs, but was respected and played for a living vs being miserable stuck in a 9-5, but wealthy? I knew the answer.

I'm almost 52 now, making music for a living and couldn't be happier, -- really. I'm playing the music I love, a music that has a very small audience, in a town, primarily, that is not a music town, let alone a jazz town, and I do quite well. I just got back from Europe on a playing gig and play, in general, with some of the most respected musicians around. I'm motivated every day to get up and practice, write -- life is just a creative endeavor.

But I also play anything and everything, when asked. It's kind of a studio musician thing, without the studio musician *****ness. This keeps things interesting. I'm always in a position to play and learn anything. When you stop learning you stop growing, and when you stop growing you start dying, in your profession and otherwise.

I'm just feeling on top of the world, like I really did make the right decisions about my life.

Wealthy? Between my wife and I, some people might consider us so. But money has NEVER been important to me. And I think this is part of it. I've never paid any attention to it. I think because I've never paid any attention to it I kind of always had it. My attention was always on music. Go figure.

[prismtheory]

If you love what you do and are good at it the money will come.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by prismtheory

If you love what you do and are good at it the money will come.

BINGO! But, if you keep believing it and don't stop working at it. There will always be curveballs. Sometimes that's when I've worked the hardest. No gigs? Good! I'll practice more. I'll get better.

But most of the people I've known who were successful didn't use this as a model. They were fantastic self promoters first. I've never been good at that. I figured my ability should speak. But sometimes that's just not good enough. Sometimes you can't get someone to come to the gig unless you have a big mouth or have people using their big mouth for you.

But in the long run my way has been working.

BUT -- there is a liability to being too good. A few actually. I'd rather have those liabilties than not be good.

[Jim Williams]

Back in college someone said to me, "to many mixers, not enough fixers".

They were right. More so than ever today.

Also, don't overlook the hobby aspect. I know many professional lawyers, doctors, etc. that have studios as well as their calling. They have it all, without the struggling finances to deal with. I do feel sorry for the folks my age still struggling in the pits to get by. If anything was as far from the romantic notion of record engineer, that is it.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[richiepalooza]

I'm 42 yrs. old and have been a professional Jazz Guitar Player since I was 19. I quit the last fulltime nonmusic day job i had on my 21st birthday. Some years have been great financially. Others have been horrible. At this point in my life, I'm able to make a good consistant living. Tho, it's not quite six figures, it would be enough to raise a family. But, this comes after i just lost everything, save my house and a couple of guitars, building fine classical and flamenco guitars.

I've always said that I love playing music but I hate being a musician. Now, at this point in my life I've come to accept certain realities and I happy with state of my life. However, I think all the stuff discussed on this site is cool but honestly I want to spend my money on things like a new kitchen and bathroom. Over the next 6 months I expect to buy a couple of 1176s, LA2A's and BAE1073's. Not because I want to but because I have to. My income is directly tied to my ability to sound good. I can't afford not to. So I have to give myself every opprotunity to compete. But, such are the realities of answering the call of being a musician.

Being a musician is not a choice. It's a call like that of a minister. It requires discipline, commitment and most of all sacrifice. So here's my advice:

If you can do anything else you should. DO NOT BECOME A MUSICIAN UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.

There is nothing wrong with having music as your hobby. There is no shame in being a parttimer, a weekend warrior. In fact you'll enjoy yourself a whole lot more. You might not play (rec.,produce, etc,) very good. But your chances for happiness will increase exponentially.

I see lawyers, doctors, businessmen everyday that tell me they wish they could play like me. Not one of them, not a single 1 would even consider trading lives with me.

Good Luck,

Richard Diaz de Leon

[rawdigits]

Originally Posted by richiepalooza

I've always said that I love playing music but I hate being a musician. Now, at this point in my life I've come to accept certain realities and I happy with state of my life. However, I think all the stuff discussed on this site is cool but honestly I want to spend my money on things like a new kitchen and bathroom. Over the next 6 months I expect to buy a couple of 1176s, LA2A's and BAE1073's. Not because I want to but because I have to. My income is directly tied to my ability to sound good. I can't afford not to. So I have to give myself every opprotunity to compete. But, such are the realities of answering the call of being a musician.

I hear ya...