When will people get that in order to have good recordings you need good sources...

[aermotor]

I've seen a bajillion and a half people talking about "I've got such and such gear but they don't sound that great blah blah blah." (not just on this board, all over) When will people get, that without a good source your thousands of dollars of outboard is useless. If your drums aren't tuned or just sound like shit, that's what it's gonna sound like, shit. It doesn't matter what type of gear you have.

This is just a rant that's been on my mind forever. People always saying "how do I get X sound" or "why does X recording sound so amazing." Regardless of what gear was used, the root of the sound is at it's source, not so much the outboard/pres, they are only adding their goodness to an already good thing. I think with guitars and amps it's not as big a deal, but I think it's most vital on drums. When your kit is miced up and it sounds bad, most likely your kit sounds bad or your setup is quite flawed.

Obviously yes, brilliant engineers know how to work with what they're got, but I think you get my point, or maybe I'm just nuts...

Anyone else care to chime in on their thoughts on this / anything else in a similar vein? Agree, disagree?

[peeder]

Well, this is the post I'm most proud of at GS so far... from a post in the mastering forum where a guy asked how he should master something and everyone's answer was to go back to mixing.

Originally Posted by peeder

I think you oughtta go back to tracking. If your tracks are good, the mix will be easy. No mixing can fix bad tracks.

I think you oughtta go back to doing the arrangement. If your arrangement is good, the tracks will just come right out of the musicians. No tracking techinque can fix a bad arrangement.

I think you oughtta go back to songwriting. If your song is good, the arrangement will come naturally. No arrangement can fix a bad song.

I think you oughtta pick a better artist. If you've got a compelling artist, they'll bring home any song for you no matter what you do with it. No song is good enough to survive an uninteresting artist.

[aermotor]

Exactly my point, yes! When things are tracked correctly I'm always surprised how little work there is to do later.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by aermotor

If your drums aren't tuned or just sound like shit, that's what it's gonna sound like, shit. It doesn't matter what type of gear you have.

Yes, but unless you got a great song and singer, then it's just a polished turd no matter how great your drums sound.

[j-uk]

A great mix is a great arrangement!

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by j-uk

A great mix is a great arrangement!

Yes it is a big part. Balance and creativity are also important.

[jnorman]

this lesson was just driven home to me this past weekend. i have recorded a local pianist many times in my studio on my old kimball baby grand, and she is always wonderful, BUT...

this weekend, i got to record her on a 7'4" bosendorfer grand, which is brand new and in perfect condition - OMG do the tracks sound incredible - i hardly have to touch it. she recorded an entire CD worth of material in 2 hours. getting to record an artist like this on an instrument like that was simply amazing.

[henryrobinett]

This is exactly the point that drives me nuts. It also drivs me nuts with guitar players, -- guys who are forever after that sound, but can't play shit. They spend thousands of dollars on a rig; tubes, speakers, pedals, cables, guitars. special strings, special picks, attentuators, compressors, Marshalls, Dumbles, Boogies, but still sound like shit. It never seems to dawn on them that the best way to get a great sound is to train your fingers. Anything's gonna sound like shit if you don't know what to play and how to play it. THAT comes first. The GEAR is the icing on the cake. The detail.

But I think those are passionate hobbiests.

[roxxon]

You have to know your gear well and how to get the most out of what you have.
Some awesome recordings have been made using some pretty low-end gear.
Sure, excellent professional musicianship and inspired performances will factor into the equation. I could go on forever speaking about the virtues of having great mixing skills, being adept at mic placement and having a room with workable to great acoustics.


Really most of the battle is knowing how to get the most out of the gear that you have at your disposal.If you don't know how to use your gear...
A rookie engineer-mixer can up with some awful-sounding recordings-mixes, even with the best gear.

Having a ton of money and owning a lot of top-line gear won't save an
engineer-mixer if they have "tin ears."

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

This is exactly the point that drives me nuts. It also drivs me nuts with guitar players, -- guys who are forever after that sound, but can't play shit. They spend thousands of dollars on a rig; tubes, speakers, pedals, cables, guitars. special strings, special picks, attentuators, compressors, Marshalls, Dumbles, Boogies, but still sound like shit. It never seems to dawn on them that the best way to get a great sound is to train your fingers. Anything's gonna sound like shit if you don't know what to play and how to play it. THAT comes first. The GEAR is the icing on the cake. The detail.

But I think those are passionate hobbiests.

Have you noticed how many (good) guitarists are used to their sound in their rehearsal place and are absolutely shocked when you make them raise their amp from the floor in the studio and let them hear what the microphone is hearing?

[soundawg]

Originally Posted by j-uk

A great mix is a great arrangement!

Nope - I think these are different...

and you can't get to a good mix, without the right arrangement.

so (in this order) if...

1. song
2. arrangement
3. source (of course includes the artist)
3. tracking

are done well...

...mixing could feasibly be done without touching anything!

That being said - I've seen a good mixer get to a pretty shiny turd, but never a sparkling one...

Yes - Source is key!!!

SO FIX YOUR ROOM!
AND FIX YOUR INSTRUMENTS!

Then keep fixing the room - and the instruments - untill you are standing in front of the most heavenly (insert instrument here) sound you've ever heard.

ONLY then do you stand a chance of finding the right combo of input 'devices' to get 'that sound' playing back at you after recording it.

or just use Drumagog?

Basicaly - I agree with aermotor



Soundawg

[davet]

I believe you're right on about this. Over time I've been buying better sources. I bought Steven Slate Drum Samples, Barts for my bass, and recently a PRS custom 24. I'm going to buy True Pianos for Christmas. My recording gear has remained the same, but the sources are much better. Better mics & pres will make things sound better. But if your source instuments (drums, guitars, voices et al) sound bad, all the fancy gear in the world won't help you.

Of course chops help too, but that's another story..

[vernier]

You need it all: good artist, right gear, and engineering skills. Someone has to wear the producer's hat as well.

[Zack]

You're right in saying that it all comes down to a great source recorded properly, but this is gearslutz. Of course it's about having cool gear!

[vernier]

To make the best recording in the world, all you'd need is a good tube mic, good tube pre, and a half way decent analog recorder.

[FossilTooth]

Gearslutz has helped me realize that I'm bored of gear.

Get some decent pres. The stock ones in a good console will often do the trick. Get some decent mics.

In the end, the order of importance for each part of the recording closely follows the signal chain:

Song-->Performance-->Instruments-->Room-->Mic-->Pre and Medium.

Notice how gear is last on the list? If you added engineer and producer to the list, they'd be far ahead of the gear as well.

Everybody just get a bunch of channels of something API-ish, and a couple channels of something Neve-ish and call it a day. If you really feel like you're missing something, get a couple channels of something super-clean and a couple channels of something super-vibey.

Songwriting, musicianship, arrangement and personality always have been, and always will be #1.

[peeder]

I think there are points to be scored at every level, and I do think gear matters, and expertise at each stage matters. I'd say the earlier phases matter more than the later ones but that doesn't invalidate the later ones. And yes you could always have done better at the earlier stages, but that doesn't mean you give up on applying mastery to the later ones.

And no I don't want to be stuck with just a couple colors on my palette. I like a variety of options at all stages, even though it can help a lot to constrain them. Generally when you know your goodies the choices are fairly obvious; learning your goodies is great fun.

[narcoman]

indeed!

A great finished recording does depends on ALL elements - something a lot of performers seem to neglect when it comes to actually playing their parts! I've been working with a good band (conceptually and songwise) for about a year. Everytime we do some recording it takes ages - the reason is lack of raw playing ability!!! Their manager doesn see that. He just see's the time it takes - three months for four bloody tracks! Careers have lasted less!

Many expect the person tracking the recod to work wonders - witness the number of people (for example) saying "make my drums sound like Bonham"...!!

Unreal.