Made in China vs. Made in China

[gainreduction]

What's the deal right now with products manufactured in China ?

Some stuff, although made in China, gets a lot of GS love. Like the Avantone mixcubes. Nobody complains about the fact that they are made in China. They are simply cool and great.

Other stuff seems to be a big no no on GS. For example the Focusrite ISA series, which I consider a high end quality product, gets quite a lot of "stay away" comments. evil asian parts inside

Of course there's a lot of crap made in China, most of it probably. But I think that has more to do with greedy dealers in Europe and USA who takes the chance to make money on cheap, massproduced mics with no quality control selling them in large numbers to hobbyists and home recordists.

What about something like Studioprojects mics. I didn't even know they existed until quite recently. My initial thought was yippie, another cheap chinese mic. Then I started digging deeper and found out that they use high quality components throughout, like Wima capacitors. They are designed in th US and the quality control is in the US. In this case only the assembly is taking place in China.

So does a Wima capacitor sound worse inside an american designed mic because it was soldered in place by a Chinese woman ? Does a lesser capacitor sound better in a German mic because it was soldered in place by a German woman ?

Is this whole "Made in China" thing getting racist or am I missing something ?

Where is China at when it comes to turning out quality products ?

I believe some manufacturers have succeeded in finding a healthy balance between cheap labour, quality parts, design and quality control. And turning out good products. Are these getting a bad rep because of those crap mics you find with ten different brands on them ?

Please enlighten me.

PS. On a side note... the average chinese factory worker is a woman in her 20's, makes $100/month, has next to no social security, works 12 hours/day, seven days/week and lives in a small room in the factory together with five other workers.

[AudioFocus]

Not all the Chineese mics are terrible. Same goes for gear. Take a company like SE Electronics. I've always been a fan of their 5600 and Gemini mics. The design and the prototype are made in the US, but all the labor is in China because of the cheap labor cost. Whereas, MXL mics are made in China and generally suck.

[hangman]

Im sure chinese stuff can be good and bad... but you'll be hard pressed to find me buying many chinese products. I'll buy american first, if I cant find a good option, I will look elsewhere. I just like supporting my countrymen first.

[cortisol]

Ethics of labour aside... it's the mindset of the chinese bosses that puts quality out of the equation.

Unless you are going to supervise and stipulate all work and component part then all bets are off as after you get sent a prototype of a product from a factory they look to skim some more profits off the top by using inferior/cheaper components. On top of this the workers are under pressure not only from being paid too little but also to work far too fast. This results in shoddy workmanship.

I work in the jewllery trade for a fashion company. We get all these problems all the time from using cheap overseas labour including mismatched colour schemes because they don't understand what western coustomers like. Gold endings on silver peices and vice versa.

You would have to supervise or maybe set up your own factory to get the quality. A slave doesn't get the chance to be proud of their work or generate quality.

How can someone from china appreciate most of the wests consumables? No points of reference...

Peace,
cortisol

[spjessop]

A cautionary tale...


In a fit of naivety I bought some cheap hard drive enclosures from eBay. Some months passed and I found a use for one so I set it up. The light on the transformer went out so much fiddling around with the connections was done (nothing internal mind, just making sure it was set up right) and then I got a shck off of it. Some research on the net uncovered batches of hard drive transformers that are not properly screened and can arc the 240v supply out of the casing. Nice. On further inspection there is no CE mark which actually makes this item illegal to sell in the UK.

This does not mean that all chinese made gear is unsafe, but as much of what we get on the net is cheap stuff it's worth remembering it's not the same as buying from your local branch of Currys.

I now have some Icy Box enclosures which are legal to sell in the UK, and thankfully still have my life. It certainly made me consider the what if scenario for a good few hours.

Aside from this obvious examples of a well received Chinese product I want to check out are the better SE Electronics mics and Dream cymbals.

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by cortisol

Unless you are going to supervise and stipulate all work and component part then all bets are off as after you get sent a prototype of a product from a factory they look to skim some more profits off the top by using inferior/cheaper components. On top of this the workers are under pressure not only from being paid too little but also to work far too fast. This results in shoddy workmanship.l

Good point, I'm sure it's very true in many cases.

[davet]

China can build space vehicles and nuclear weapons, so they have the ability to make quality things. The low end stuff they manufacture is determined by a price point set by the buyer. It's all about greedy vendors looking for the lowest price.

I buy American when I can. Chinese made is last on the list and I'll avoid it completely when I can. I vote with my wallet.

[allencollins]

yeah what is it with 'C' words around here. Lots of double standards.

You can slander mics that begin with 'A' have a middle letter 'K' and end in 'G'
And you can slander mics that begin with a capital 'N' and end with a lowercase 'n'

But I love China. Nothing sounds better going down than a big bowl of pork fried rice some chicken fingers and a couple egg rolls from the Kowloon on old rt. 1 Even the delicious Fortune cookie will tell what pres to avoid.

But the new Toft ATB is made in china and folks praise it so China gear can't be all that bad.
The Chinese Chamelon labs is not a bad sounding preamp.

The bottom line is this. If something has a quality engineered design, the components are quality no matter what country they originate and the final product is just assembled in China what difference does it make? If it is Assembled in America it is probably built worse than in China!!

Americans are lazy and American workers' bosses are even more lazy. If they assemble something wrong in a small sweat shop in lets say Shell Rock, IA what is gonna happen? the union sticks up for the employee. "He had a bad day" "his wife left him" "They need food stamps to eat"
"He's on the wagon he's not fweeeling good" "His father works here" "He Has three kids to feed" "The pats shellaced the colts"!! "His son is on meth". He keeps his job and keeps doing shoddy sloppy work.

China is communist if they assemble something wrong they get SHOT!!!!! so I bet
the quality of many chinese products are not all that bad. Just remember this, Chinese preamps
and mics are ok as long as they are not painted. Cuz if they are painted it's probably lead paint. And just don't buy the toothpaste. everything else from china is A- O.K.

Just kidding.........

[LewisWu]

americans produce crap too... in abundance... just turn on the radio... and don't forget how ugly american cars have become...

the chinese build "crap" because the companies that utilize chinese labour tell them to. they didn't decide to build the product with lesser quality components.. that decision was made by some person in a suit.

besides, there are plenty of countries that produce crap... we just don't pay to have it imported here.. which implies that we like chinese crap...

[dj_who]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

What's the deal right now with products manufactured in China ?

Some stuff, although made in China, gets a lot of GS love. Like the Avantone mixcubes. Nobody complains about the fact that they are made in China. They are simply cool and great .....



Is this whole "Made in China" thing getting racist or am I missing something ?

i can only speak for myself. any bad things i say about chinese products are geared towards: greedy american business owners, greedy chinese factory owners, chinese govt and us govt. NOT the chinese people themselves.

the chinese people are the ones being hurt the most by the factories and coal burning plants.

why are chinese products singled out? because almost EVERYTHING is now made in china. when is that last time you saw a product made in brazil....or ukraine?

by the way....the other day i biought a package of generic Q-tips. i was astounded it said "made in USA" on the box. i was so proud.

[dj_who]

Originally Posted by LewisWu

americans produce crap too... in abundance... just turn on the radio... and don't forget how ugly american cars have become...

the chinese build "crap" because the companies that utilize chinese labour tell them to. they didn't decide to build the product with lesser quality components.. that decision was made by some person in a suit.

besides, there are plenty of countries that produce crap... we just don't pay to have it imported here.. which implies that we like chinese crap...

i agree. american cars are THE WORST. its a disgrace.

it seems we can't get enough of chinese products. i have mixcubes. they're ok. i only use them a little bit. so i'm guilty in buying chinese stuff.....but i don't have to like it. if i could afford american and german made stuff....i would buy that in a heartbeat.

so as it stands.....either not have a home studio at all...or buy chinese made stuff.

[Nu-tra]

HAHA!

I'm sure a lot of the American flags we wave around are made in China. I got one too!


Americans are lazy and American workers' bosses are even more lazy. If they assemble something wrong in a small sweat shop in lets say Shell Rock, IA what is gonna happen? the union sticks up for the employee. "He had a bad day" "his wife left him" "They need food stamps to eat"
"He's on the wagon he's not fweeeling good" "His father works here" "He Has three kids to feed" "The pats shellaced the colts"!! "His son is on meth". He keeps his job and keeps doing shoddy sloppy work.

[Crash]

I am just tired of rebuilding "new" things made in China. The latest was the fog machine we got for halloween. My 5 year old son was crushed when it didn't work on halloween night, so hating to see him bummed I tore into it. I got it working but should I have had to deal with that...brand new out of the box? It seems like I have about a 50% failure rate on most stuff coming out of that country. Luckily, the pro audio stuff seems to fare better in the "blow up out of the box" department.

Before the fog machine I had the pleasure of almost getting blown off a ladder by some outdoor lights that blew up when the photo cell section went up in smoke. I am just hoping that I don't get killed or poisoned by some product that comes out of that country. It is not like you get a lot of choice anymore on what you buy in terms of country of origin. Just try and find something that says made in the USA. ....not that the term has the meaning of quality that it used to. Seems like everyone wants products cheap and fast ala Wal-Mart. I am willing to pay a little more for a quality product but that seems to be a second to the other two.

[redrue]

Originally Posted by allencollins

...If they assemble something wrong in a small sweat shop in lets say Shell Rock, IA ....

Shell Rock... hmmm... Shell Rock Why does that
sound like... familiar somehow... Why do I know that name... hmm...
I've heard that some... where.. so..

funny.

[videoteque]

China can make wonderful products as long as they are "well payed" to do them right. Apple products??

The products most people complain are those 10-20$ products that I am sure are paid 1-2$ to the chinesse factory... And Behringer stuff. How much do you think Mr. Behringer pays a chinesse factory to make a 100$ mixer??

[magnuspater]

Originally Posted by Crash

I am just tired of rebuilding "new" things made in China. The latest was the fog machine we got for halloween. My 5 year old son was crushed when it didn't work on halloween night, so hating to see him bummed I tore into it. I got it working but should I have had to deal with that...brand new out of the box? It seems like I have about a 50% failure rate on most stuff coming out of that country. Luckily, the pro audio stuff seems to fare better in the "blow up out of the box" department.

maybe you should have spent more than $39.99 on a fog machine?

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by LewisWu

americans produce crap too... in abundance... just turn on the radio... and don't forget how ugly american cars have become...

the chinese build "crap" because the companies that utilize chinese labour tell them to. they didn't decide to build the product with lesser quality components.. that decision was made by some person in a suit.

besides, there are plenty of countries that produce crap... we just don't pay to have it imported here.. which implies that we like chinese crap...

nice!


and to other other people who thinks in china there are slaves and have no idea about chinese life....

go download a program called TVU networks and in there there are plenty of chinese channels... all in all.. if you just ignore or change the asians for western looking people and english letters... TV is exactly the same. not to say to judge a cultrue on its TV but they buy the same products we do. they have the idea of consumerism. open markets, rich, poor, etc. complete capitalists..

i agree with the the posted quote above. their is crap everywhere. I believe the only product that US excels at is weapons. the rest is imported. or made with imported parts.

and also someone writes about its the Business guys who decide on quality.
its true. berhinger would make the same crappy products if they made them in germany... i believe they actually did and still sucked.

[PhiloBeddoe]

You still get what you pay for in most cases. It's kinda that simple.

Also, remember that the vast majority of products we buy that are made in China have a US, European, or other country's product name on them. The operations of plants in China is ultimately their responsibility. There aren't too many Chinese owned companies peddling audio gear.

The Chinese workers will do what you tell them to do, but you have to set up the quality systems to make a consistent product. These products don't just make themselves.

So, I wouldn't discount something solely because it was made in China. If you want to berate someone, make it the company whose product it is. They chose to make it there and chose how to make it.

Obviously China has big problems as a country, but those are independent of whether they can assemble a microphone properly.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Behringer runs a factory called "Behringer City" there. No joke. I read about it in Pro Sound News, I think...

2006 (not from PSN)

BEHRINGER OPENED a two-million-square-foot manufacturing and distribution center in Minzhong China on June 6. Dubbed "Behringer City," the expansive operation includes series of buildings in a campus-like setting. Each building has a distinct function, including factories for electronics, wood, speaker assembly and guitars, ware houses, logistical operations, receiving areas for suppliers, as well as R&D and administrative offices. Extensive infrastructure including different canteens,...

The watchword here (Behringer) is "vertical integration."

--

Don't forget about Loud Technologies buying U.S.A.-proud Mackie and going to overseas production a few years back (2004?).

--

Oh, yeah -- on the automotive industry subject (just for a second): the U.S. factories of the "domestic car manufacturers" are unionized, but the foreign ones aren't. Honda is manufacturing in Indiana (for those who don't know, Indiana is right next door to Michigan & Detroit, traditional home of the U.S. auto manufacturers) -- but they will only accept new workers from certain counties.

Why?

It's a way to keep their factories from unionizing.

Future of the Union www.futureoftheunion.com » Blog Archive » Honda And UAW Clash Over New Factory Jobs

Honda And UAW Clash Over New Factory Jobs by The Wall Street Journal

Residency Rules Exclude Most Union Members; Indignant in Indiana

When Honda Motor Co. announced last year that it was building a new plant amid the farms of southeastern Indiana, Hoosiers cheered. Then Honda announced in August that only people living in 20 of the state’s 92 counties could apply for jobs — a move that excluded most of the state’s thousands of unionized laid-off auto workers.

Foreign car companies have added U.S. plants and created new jobs — but they’ve kept workers with UAW memberships out of their factories. Honda’s unusual hiring restriction highlights an often overlooked aspect of the United Auto Workers union’s declining power. While Detroit’s big auto makers and their unionized suppliers have been slashing jobs, wages and benefits, foreign car companies have added U.S. plants and created thousands of new automotive jobs. Yet they have effectively kept auto workers with UAW membership cards out of their factories, hampering the union from gaining any foothold where the jobs are.

Of the 33 auto, engine and transmission plants in the U.S. that are wholly owned by foreign companies, none have been organized by the UAW, despite repeated attempts.

So the race to the bottom is happening here with U.S. labor, too. And if any employee at a Wal-Mart even whispers the word "union," they shut the whole location down.


And the Canadian dollar is worth MORE than the U.S. dollar now...

[mark mcg]

americans produce crap too... in abundance... just turn on the radio... and don't forget how ugly american cars have become...

I'll tell you a new American car that I thought was sharp as hell and looked very well-built - beautiful engine! - a silver Chevy Impala SS. My brother was in from Germany and rented this thing. Had a V8 and would fly! I could not see at all what an Acura had on that car. A BMW 5 series is another story.

Mark

[Crash]

Originally Posted by magnuspater

maybe you should have spent more than $39.99 on a fog machine?

True...though I didn't buy this one. My mom went upscale and went to Target to get it for my son. I bet she didn't even spend that much on it. Once I got into it and fixed it, it worked like a charm. I am just surprised it made it into the box not working....wait a minute, no I am not.