Upgrading Alesis HD24 to Radar? Any thoughts?

[Gibripper75]

I am a bit oldschool. I went to audio school used protools and other programs and still never liked them. My home set up is pretty straight forward. Outboard pres>HD24>console>Outboard dynamics>Two track. This is the way I like it no PT B.S. no mixing ITB=No headaches. Ideally I would like to go to 2" 24track, please save your comments, but have neither the space nor money right now. So my DAW is just the HD24 analoge in/out. I considered upgrading the converters or getting the HD24XR, but I figured after that that cash I might as well just get a Radar. I am looking into possibly buying the Radar II. Just would like to get some opinions. I always considered the HD24 the poormans Radar. Any insights onto dumping files/tracks from the HD into Radar?

[charlesaustin]

Radar is hands down the best thing you could do, the sound is untouchable and it makes you think about music, i was mixing an album the other day and was staring at the same zoomed in track for an hour and did not think twice. I was just emersed in the music. One of the coolest radar features is auto crossfades, no more playing with crossfades in pro tools, it is amazing, you may want to get the classic plus radar setup for a little computer compatibility but if you dont care about that, go for a radar 2.

[travisbrown]

Maybe do some research. As far as I understand it, the HD24XR or HD24 with the EC2 uprade has the same converters as the Radar 24, and I believe the analogue stages of both machines are similar

Jim Williams does an excellent upgrade for the HD24XR as well. To quote Gilliland quoting Jim,

Originally Posted by Gilliland

Here's what one person (Jim Williams of Audio Upgrades) said after making such a comparison:

"The HD24XR uses AKM 5393 A/D's and AKM 4393 D/A's. The A/D section
is almost identical to the Radar 96, I like the 4393 dac's better than
the hard sounding AD 1855 dac used in the Radar.

"I ran a session recording Drum Workshop drums through the Radar
96 against the tweeked HD24. The HD24 had better top end details and
way better low end depth, a fact that Martin at IZ could not explain
to me."

Jim does mods of the HD24XR, but he appears to like the stock unit just fine. In another post, he said:

"If you're looking for good quality converters in mass, I
like the Alesis HD24XR 96k. It uses the same A/D's as the $13k Radar
96, and I like the AKM 5393 D/A converters in there better than the
rough sounding Analog Devices AD1855 dac's in the Radar. $2500 for 48
channels of 96k converters, oh, and they throw in a hard drive
recorder in for free!"

Now, while the conversion and sound quality between the Radar 24 and HD24XR may be negligible, they are different machine. The Radar has some workstation capabilities, built in disc redundancy, etc. But unless you need the few extra functions the Radar offers, and if you are just using the machines as standalone recorders, you should consider the cost-benefit of the HD24XR over the Radar. I think you'd be hard-pressed to justify spending the lots-of-extra-dollars on a Radar 24.

There's an earlier thread on this at Radar 24 Classic vs. Alesis HD24XR

[AudioFocus]

I love the RADAR, it's awesome. I just love working with them. It's all very straight-forward and it sounds great. The only bitch w/ the older RADAR is the backup system. It uses exabyte tapes, which are a pain in the ass. Do yourself a favor and get one of the newer ones w/ a DVD drive. That way if your clients want to mix in PT or something they have an easily accessible digital format.

_or_

You could just come TDIF from the RADAR to a format converter and then ADAT to your Alesis. Then use their FW thing to backup to a computer.

I hope u luv ur RADAR

Cheers,
Creston

[Nu-tra]

"$2500 for 48 channels of 96k converters"

How is that possible. It's 48 channels at 44.1 or 48k right? IT's only 12 tracks per unit at 96k.

I wilsh I could rock one unit at 96k but the adat lightpipe can't handle the bandwidth.
plus you would need like two motu 2408's unluess there is something cheaper that only takes one pci-e slot in your comp. I wonder how the alesis modded sounds compared to a lynx

[cgarges]

As a RADAR 24 Nyquist owner who has spent much of this year recording an album on an Alesis HD24XR, I can say without a doubt that the two machines do not sound the same at all. IF the two machines have the same components, the RADAR's are MUCH better implemented. There is little comparison in sound.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Bassmankr]

There are plenty of threads on the Alesis units, do a search but they all say that the XR version is a big step up in sound with the newer converters. The Alesis HD24XR will do 24 channels at 44.1k-48k and 12 channels at 96k. To run 96k on lightpipe you need the interface that will do it and it uses 2 channels up per 96k track, thus an 8 channel litepipe will only handle 4 channels at 96k. A good match for the HD24XR is the RME 9652 (new version of the card with midi) which is 3 litepipe I/O (24 channels at 44.1k-48k). The RME is a PCI card and you can have up to three of them in your computer for a total of 72 channels at 44.1k-48k or half that at 96k. I'd use the Alesis only for it's converters and record ITB unless you are doing a remote recording. Given a recent poll on this board that showed most here were recording at 44.1-48k plus the diminishing returns of jumping up to 96k since it all goes back down to 16 bit/44.1 of the CD, I would just stay at 24 bit 44.1k-48k and have the higher track counts without the investment of lots of Alesis/RME units to get high track counts at 96k. Two units of each ($4300) will give you 48 channels at 44.1k-48k which is plenty for most guys even if you mix with a desk and is one of the better bang for the buck good sounding combos out there right now.

[Drumsound]

If you buy a RADAR II the upgrade path is a dead end. iZ is done upgrading that machine. A R24 or RV on the otherhand still can be upgraded.

Just a little food for thought.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

"$2500 for 48 channels of 96k converters"

How is that possible. It's 48 channels at 44.1 or 48k right? IT's only 12 tracks per unit at 96k.

I wilsh I could rock one unit at 96k but the adat lightpipe can't handle the bandwidth.
plus you would need like two motu 2408's unluess there is something cheaper that only takes one pci-e slot in your comp. I wonder how the alesis modded sounds compared to a lynx

Yeah, I don't know what Jim's talking about there. I assumed first two machines, but...

The Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (32 channel lightpipe/firewire) is a good way to get it into your DAW, or Alesis' FST/Connect software and a firewire caddy (or the overpriced FirePort). You could try your luck with the finicky M-Audio Profire Lightbridge.

Either will do 16 channels s/mux'd 96k.

I've got a Presonus unit on order because it allows me to use my laptop DAW as a monitor and mixer straight from the HD24 when recording live.

Even just using the HD24 as a digital i/o recorder, you could get any converters you wanted and plug them in. 2 Lynx Auroras or three Rosetta 800s and HD24 is still $6000-$8000 cheaper than a new Radar setup. I just don't see the cost benefit of a Radar. Lovely solid machines, though, from the couple times I've had a chance to use them.

[Gibripper75]

It is for a home studio, so upgrading the Radar II does'nt really matter to me. I just have bands that are really just friends come over and record, usually for free. But I do my own thing, I am my own band, so I think that the Radar is the road to take, I will do some more homework and see which Radar is best for me. Thaks for the replies.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

If you buy a RADAR II the upgrade path is a dead end. iZ is done upgrading that machine. A R24 or RV on the otherhand still can be upgraded.

Just a little food for thought.

Radars are being upgraded here. The analog parts are 5532's and MC33078's. There are far better choices available than those.

HD24XR's are going for $1650 now. Two are $3300 for 24 channels at 96k. That's about $11,000 less than the Radar. The Radar is a system, the Alesis is a recorder. Both sound the same with high end outboard converters.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Both sound the same with high end outboard converters.

But the RADAR has to sound better, because it's not an Alesis, right Jim?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

But the RADAR has to sound better, because it's not an Alesis, right Jim?

If you use outboard converters, it's not Radar or Alesis anymore, it's what converter you use. Both are bit accurate in that domain. You can afford a few more of them on an Alesis budget.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[pbell]

I used a RADAR at my old school (OIART: Audio/Sound Engineering, Sound/Music Recording, Sound/Audio/Music Production School) and it was freaking sweet. Loved it. Can't remember which model it was but I'd love to own one myself. I've used the Alesis HD24 and I don't think it sounded close to the RADAR at all (mind you it was a whole different set up). My preference is the RADAR.

[cgarges]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Radars are being upgraded here.

So Jim, you can make RADAR IIs import and export Broadcast WAVs via a DVD-R combo drive on the front of the machine? You can make it work with version 3.4 software? I'm pretty sure that's what Tony meant.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by pbell

I used a RADAR at my old school (OIART: Audio/Sound Engineering, Sound/Music Recording, Sound/Audio/Music Production School) and it was freaking sweet. Loved it. Can't remember which model it was but I'd love to own one myself. I've used the Alesis HD24 and I don't think it sounded close to the RADAR at all (mind you it was a whole different set up). My preference is the RADAR.

Was it a HD24XR? There is a noticable difference between the HD24 and HD24XR.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by cgarges

So Jim, you can make RADAR IIs import and export Broadcast WAVs via a DVD-R combo drive on the front of the machine? You can make it work with version 3.4 software? I'm pretty sure that's what Tony meant.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

You are correct sir!

[deuc647]

[quote=travisbrown;1602468]Was it a HD24XR? There is a noticable difference between the HD24 and HD24XR.[/QU

different converters and HELL YES YOU CAN TELL!

[pbell]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

Was it a HD24XR? There is a noticable difference between the HD24 and HD24XR.

I'm not entirely sure, it was over a year ago so the memory is a little hazy. Im inclined to think it wasn't the HD24XR. I have talked to a little people who have used both these units though and they seemed to like them.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by deuc647

different converters and HELL YES YOU CAN TELL!

I'm not sure what your point is. We already know there are different converters between the HD24 and HD24XR, and we've established that they sound different from each other.

I was asking pbell if he was comparing the RADAR at his school with an HD24 or HD24XR.

Does it really make you that angry?

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by pbell

I'm not entirely sure, it was over a year ago so the memory is a little hazy. Im inclined to think it wasn't the HD24XR. I have talked to a little people who have used both these units though and they seemed to like them.

Yeah, I don't blame you for liking the RADAR more if it was an non-XR. I, for one, think this is one of the best things Alesis has made. For the price point, it is an unbeatable recorder and should challenge all the other HD recorder manufacturers out there.

It has simplified my setup and saved me $8,000 in dedicated interfaces, cabling and recording DAW (which I did have and have either repurposed or sold), I can rent it out, easily swappable wherever I am if it ever broke down, takes five minutes to plug in and set up, media is dirt cheap.

There are a couple really stupid things about it - specifically the unusable 10BaseT network card - way to slow to even consider as a means of transfer, and the price of the Fireport (granted, they do often bundle these with the HD24, but I not when I bought one).

I'm all for single purpose appliances in recording.

[Stormkloud]

I have also heard that the Masterlink has the exact same converters that my Radar Nyquist does. I have owned both for 4 years now so I am very familiar with the sound of both boxes.
I am here to tell you , there is absolutely no way the masterlinks converters are even close in sound to the Radar. I used to use the Masterlink to mix down to and when I started mixing down to two channels on Radar It was a real eye opener. It was a HUGE difference in overall sound and clarity. I mean , it wasnt just slightly noticeable , it was HUGE.

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by Stormkloud

I have also heard that the Masterlink has the exact same converters that my Radar Nyquist does. I have owned both for 4 years now so I am very familiar with the sound of both boxes.
I am here to tell you , there is absolutely no way the masterlinks converters are even close in sound to the Radar. I used to use the Masterlink to mix down to and when I started mixing down to two channels on Radar It was a real eye opener. It was a HUGE difference in overall sound and clarity. I mean , it wasnt just slightly noticeable , it was HUGE.

Just for reference ( and my curiosity..) since you have both, could you post a sample done on both machines? ( if you have time) I think that'll help this discussion!... Maybe just a stereo pair recording of something ran thru both)..Thanks.....

[charlesaustin]

Radar converters are far better than a masterlink, huge difference