Monitors - K+H O300 - Emes Blue HR - Genelec 8050 - ADAM 2.5...?

[GYang]

You're in Germany, so probably is very hard to find anything better than pair of excellent K+H O300 (I think you can find them little cheaper without DAC, I paid mine with DAC around that price)
Later you can add two subwoofers if you need more power from the system.
Other options are good, too, but IMO nothing betas K+H at given budget.

Originally Posted by Christof

Monitors are the most important thing (together with mics) and I'm considering quite a step up from my ADAM P-11. In the past my mixes didn't always translate to other systems as I expected them to.

I want a monitor that gives me confidence concering the bass-range (no sub needed) and differentiation in signal depth - not to mention a smooth frequency response of course.

I already listened to the Genelc 8050 and found them quite a step up compared to the P11 (the lows seemed deep but not very tight, the soundfield opened nicely and very precise) - but I wanted to know what you did choose / would choose and why.

The monitors I listed do cost almost the same. So the price won't be a guideline:
- Genelec 8050 about 1.270 EUR each
- Emes Blue HR about 1.300 EUR each
- ADAM 2.5A about 1.400 EUR each
- Klein+Hummel O300 about 1.400 EUR each

(Anything else to consider?)

Let me hear what you think...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Christof

- Klein+Hummel O300 about 1.400 EUR each

May I ask where can you get them for such a price ? (For example at Thomann it is 1890,-)

[Christof]

The price for the O300 is for the version without the "D" already - the price went up recently and I could probably get the last pair for the old price. So, sorry ISedlacek, as long as they didn't arrive, I won't tell about my source.

[matucha]

KH are very nice sounding, esp. in the lows. But I missed the midrange and HF detail that my S3A are giving me. Also overal response is more HiFi than I'd like to hear.

If you have problems with bass, then it is hard not to ask about room and acoustics, because new and more expensive speakers may not solve your problem.


...it is hard not to suggest the latest monitoring hit - the focal 6 twin... though I can't say a word about them

[Christof]

Yes of course room treatment does come to mind - but I need a stepup from those ADAM P11 anyways.

When I bought I found them much better than Genelec 1030 or some others - but I had listened to the O198 then (predecessor of O300) and they were outstanding - but also out of reach.

The longer I have worked with the P11 the more I got the feeling, that they don't deliver the sound as I want them to. Adjusting image depth has been difficult quite often. When I listened to many CDs (good mixes and bad ones I knew quite good), the Genelec 8050 showed me much clearly the flaws that had been made. Good mixes sounded good on all monitors - even on very cheap ones (ESI Experience 05). But inferior mixes sounded good on those too and you couldn't tell anything about the depth of the different instruments. The ADAMs were better of course, but it was often hard to decide. The 8050 were much better.

The question is, if any other monitor mentioned would be (much) better ore worse than the 8050.

[cooker]

I have p11a's at home and worked with genelec 8050 for a long time in studio. Though I don't know if you are going to but I don't advise selling the p11's because they are perfect for second reference when judging the final mix. I guess you are looking for a more flat responce monitor. The genelecs are very flat but you will miss those small adams alot when it comes to hearing high freq. detail and reverb. I haven't listened to the 0300's yet but I haven't heard anything bad about them and actually bob katz wrote that they were even good enough to be mastering monitors. Just don't buy the genelecs without listening to them.

[DivineMusic]

i love the 0300's but the Focal twin6 Be's are neck and neck too

[Christof]

Focals are not very well known here and I won't have an opportunity to test them - so they won't be on my list.

[Christof]

@cooker

If I'm doing that stepup I will probably need to sell the ADAMs because the K+Hs or the 8050 are not very cheap. I'm not doing this for my living...

[cooker]

I understand. Maybe my review in this way could help you choose a bit more easyly(though its very hard to compare monitors,here we go..). The Genelecs are better than the adams when it comes to different listening levels. I live in an apartment so I can't turn on the volume a lot at night and I noticed that my mixes turn brighter when mixed at low volume. But the genelecs don't change much color at low volumes.

Mixing with genelecs are easyer in general(compared to adams)but I always ended up doing some tweaking in the mix after listening at different sources(lack of detail after getting used to adams), though using high-end headphones could be enough to fix these details instead of keeping your adams..

I don't hate genelecs but wouldn't choose them. When the mix comes to a critical point of desigions, I had some hard time with genelecs. If I were to choose monitors first I would check the 0300, then the s2.5.

[Christof]

Thanks cooker - that does help me a lot. I will listen to those monitors and now I know a bit more what I should have in mind while listening.

I will keep my Stax headphones - so that may be a second reference.

[Christof]

Does anyone know how the KS Digital ADM 30 sounds compared to the other monitors mentioned here?

[analogjeff]

check Quested -- sound great and translate...

[dave-G]

I'm a huge fan of the K+H O300D, and think they're outstanding mix tools, but despite that, I might be selling mine, as I really haven't been using them since I got my big Geithain 901Ks .. The Geithains are also not cheap, but are easier to find there in Europe than here in the US (especially Germany, I'd think, since they're made there). They are well worth a demo, and you might find them to be well-worth stretching your budget for!

Many of their models are also cardioid at frequencies up to 200-300Hz, which is really quite amazingly effective at reducing LF back-wall reflections. In any case, they're super clear, low in distortion, flat and revealing... a great reference that translates beautifully. They give you what you need to make good decisions, and work intuitively!

I think some of their smaller coaxial three way designs like the 922 and 933 oughtta be very cool, and GS moderator toolskid is in love with his 906s

Good luck!
-dave

[Phaidon]

Although I quite fancy the K+ HO300s I have to say that EMES stuffthumbsup
is definetely way underated!!!...even in Germany!
I used to have tthe small kobalts and now I own the Black TVs.
Higly recommended

Cheers

Phaidon

[Christof]

@dave-G
Geithain is not bad - but it's very expensive too. I could afford the MO-2 or the 906 probably, but the ones you mentioned are way out of reach.
The Geithains are known to have excellent image depth...hmm - I will have to find out where I can listen to those.

@Phaidon
Maybe Emes is underrated, but I don't like the fact, that the Blue is not shielded (though this should not affect TFT displays...?) and there are only very few users that can be found. I once had the Black (passive) and they were really not bad at all.

[Christof]

I've been testing two pairs of monitors in the last days and in the near future there will be two more.

ADAM S2.5A
What I did like: The sound is well balanced. The bass is quite deep but a little "fat" (can be adjusted though - so no problem).

What I didn't like: Very much the same as on my smaller ADAMs - I do not like AT ALL how the harmonics blend with the lower frequencys. It sounds as if the tweeters timing is some time in front of the woofer.
The result is, that all sounds do not sound "integrated" but "fallen apart" - regardless what instrument it was (cymbals, voice, acoustic guitar...as long as it contained high frequencies).

If listening to the ADAMs alone your hearing may adjust to this sound, but compared to the other monitor it was quite obvious how obtrusive that S2.5A is.

EMES BLUE HR
What I did like: This monitor sounds very well-balanced. The bass is deep and clear. In comparison to the ADAMs it was very obvious, that all the instruments/voices sounded as they should (as one source, not "disjointed"). I really like them - maybe they'll stay...

...but this is just the first part. I'm gonna listen to Genelec 8050 and Klein+Hummel O300 too. The salesperson in the shop where I got the monitors from told me, that there have been a couple of customers who have chosen the EMES over the K+H O300... well, I'll see...

To sum it up:
The EMES Blue HR are going to the next round - the ADAMs go back as soon as possible...

[Christof]

One more thing: I like, that EMES does publish their measurements (including waterfall diagram...) - it's quite difficult to find measurements of ADAM monitors.

The EMES Blue HR come with individual frequency response for each speaker and with one more graph showing the difference plot (how well both of the monitors are matched).

Of course data does not subsitute listening tests - but I like seeing those graphs though, as I know what they can tell me (and what they don't).

[Christof]

Update: Have been testing the O300 for a few days now.

They sound excellent! First I thought they might sound a bit boring or lifeless - but I found out quite quick, that the reason has been the mix I've been listening to.

The bass is deep and tight (no need for a sub) - the mids sound clear without any exaggeration, the highs sound natural to me - though I lifted them a little just for the taste of it.

The phantom image isn't as pinpoint sharp as the Emes and the enclosure resonates more than the other contestants.

But what counts is sound - and in my opinion the O300 win that part of the contest without any doubt.

So - if my audio dealer will make the good deal he had announced - I will be purchasing the O300 soon.

[chris5s]

Originally Posted by Christof

Does anyone know how the KS Digital ADM 30 sounds compared to the other monitors mentioned here?

I currently have the Backes & Mueller BM2 as a temporary replacement for my hifi speakers. I can't compare them to the other monitors, but you definitly ought to listen to the ADM30. BM2 and ADM30 share the same technology and the BM2 rock!
Cheers
Chris

[nicolasmasset]

Originally Posted by Christof

Update: Have been testing the O300 for a few days now.

They sound excellent! First I thought they might sound a bit boring or lifeless - but I found out quite quick, that the reason has been the mix I've been listening to.

The bass is deep and tight (no need for a sub) - the mids sound clear without any exaggeration, the highs sound natural to me - though I lifted them a little just for the taste of it.

The phantom image isn't as pinpoint sharp as the Emes and the enclosure resonates more than the other contestants.

But what counts is sound - and in my opinion the O300 win that part of the contest without any doubt.

So - if my audio dealer will make the good deal he had announced - I will be purchasing the O300 soon.

Bump!

So Christof,
How does your story conclude? Did you buy the O300's? Any further thoughts now that you've had them for a while?
I'm currently going through the monitor choosing process myself, having brought home demo pairs of adam p11, s2a, quested s8, dynaudio bm6a, digi rm2 and now the fabulous O300. I just got them home tonight, so haven't mixed on them yet, but already I noticed the flaws my quested mix created that I noticed in the car. I haven't heard the emes you mentioned yet..

For my very first impression they combine the superb imaging, depth and bass response of the questeds, but with a little of the adam mid, without being as upfront or boosted. For now, I think it's the winner of the lot! When I put some bright mixed tracks on, I just can't stand to listen to them, but good mixes are amazing, and that's the way it should be!

Any thoughts? Also, where'd you buy them from and for how much? I can get the O300's for 3200 euro at my local dealer, is that reasonable?

Regards.

[Getafix]

Can't go wrong with K+H O300's, best purchase i ever made! thumbsup

[toolskid]

Especially as you as in germany you should consider the Geithain range. They are the finest nearfields i have heard.

Originally Posted by Christof

Monitors are the most important thing (together with mics) and I'm considering quite a step up from my ADAM P-11. In the past my mixes didn't always translate to other systems as I expected them to.

I want a monitor that gives me confidence concering the bass-range (no sub needed) and differentiation in signal depth - not to mention a smooth frequency response of course.

I already listened to the Genelc 8050 and found them quite a step up compared to the P11 (the lows seemed deep but not very tight, the soundfield opened nicely and very precise) - but I wanted to know what you did choose / would choose and why.

The monitors I listed do cost almost the same. So the price won't be a guideline:
- Genelec 8050 about 1.270 EUR each
- Emes Blue HR about 1.300 EUR each
- ADAM 2.5A about 1.400 EUR each
- Klein+Hummel O300 about 1.400 EUR each

(Anything else to consider?)

Let me hear what you think...