10 biggest lies in audio? or just a case of the Mondays?

[telefunky]

Hello Slutz!
I found this surfin' the net and I had to post it here. I think some of what he says may be true, but I think you will find most is complete nonsense. Especially if you have spent any time working/building/fixing/designing a studio.

Takes 5 minutes to read, and a lifetime to argue about!

Keep the tubes warm,

-Telefunky

[pbell]

Oh boy, this could get good. Quick, someone call the fire brigade and have them on standby!

[BLUElightCory]

He forgot "Your check is in the mail."

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by telefunky

I think some of what he says may be true, but I think you will find most is complete nonsense.

It all seems quite reasonable to me.

[telefunky]

Its about 50/50 for me. Come on though, tubes are obsolete technology?
I actually know someone who thinks "treating the CD" is real....

"The checks in the mail" -good one!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by telefunky

Hello Slutz!
I found this surfin' the net and I had to post it here. I think some of what he says may be true, but I think you will find most is complete nonsense. Especially if you have spent any time working/building/fixing/designing a studio.

Takes 5 minutes to read, and a lifetime to argue about!

Keep the tubes warm,

-Telefunky

I scanned it quickly. This all looks like solid, unassailable stuff as far as I can see. You'll get some static from the audio fabulists but they exist in a dreamworld of their own creation, anyhow.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by telefunky

Its about 50/50 for me. Come on though, tubes are obsolete technology?
I actually know someone who thinks "treating the CD" is real....

"The checks in the mail" -good one!

If you want fidelity -- it's easier and cheaper to get with transistors. You can get a very high fidelity tube system but it will produce more heat and its performance will deteriorate faster and require more maintenance.

Tubes are used in recording chains typically for the opposite reason -- they are used to impart small (or not so) amounts of saturation distortion for extra color or character.

Now, that's not to say that cheap solid state circuitry is not frequently designed with serious compromises -- just as cheap tube circuitry was back in my day. (You should have seen my first stereo amp in the stereo I built in the early 60s with my allowance and lawn and car washing money. Hoo boy. It was pretty sad. Hum, tube microphonics, you name it. But what do you want for $14, new. Then again, that 14 bucks would have bought five tanks of gas at the U-Serve for the VW I'd own a few years later).


What other problems do you find with those 10 myths?



BTW, welcome to GearSlutz!

[Paul Hammond]

I read the full article. Obviously now an MP3 is equal in quality to playback from a properly aligned large format analog multitrack tape recorder! I better stop kidding myself! My poor jaded ears have become so used to old hand wired tube guitar amps that I can't use anything else. I guess there needs to be an audio rehab clinic set up somewhere for the likes of me to help me get over my affliction. The withdrawal is going to be hell! ;-)

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by Paul Hammond

I read the full article. Obviously now an MP3 is equal in quality to playback from a properly aligned large format analog multitrack tape recorder! I better stop kidding myself! My poor jaded ears have become so used to old hand wired tube guitar amps that I can't use anything else. I guess there needs to be an audio rehab clinic set up somewhere for the likes of me to help me get over my affliction. The withdrawal is going to be hell! ;-)

The article is about audio playback for end-users, not recording. He specifically excludes the digital vs analogue recording argument from his "anti-digital lie" section. Who listens to music on large format analog multitrack tape recorders?

[Paul Hammond]

Originally Posted by Marty J

The article is about audio playback for end-users, not recording. He specifically excludes the digital vs analogue recording argument from his "anti-digital lie" section. Who listens to music on large format analog multitrack tape recorders?

That's interesting, I thought the article was about marketing "snob appeal" to uninformed consumers, ie: end users. Just as I like to drink Guinness instead of Budweiser, it's personal taste. Some folks will pay extra money for what is marketed as being better - even if there is no scientific proof. This forum generally caters to those in the recording business, not the end users or casual listeners. Trying to remain objective can be difficult when one is bombarded with so many "better than" claims made by advertisers. You pays your money and you takes your chance. Some of the analogies in the article - "radio shack speaker wire or coat hangers as such" reminds me of MP3 vs. pro audio quality. I'll have a double shot of Snake Oil and a Bucket of Steam to go! :-)

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

He forgot "Your check is in the mail."

or "This won't take long at all."

[Dee Tee]

Interesting article i agree with alot of it but the analogue/digital argument (sorry) i really dont agree with.

the reason people say analogue sounds better than digital is the subtle distortion that seems to 'warm' the sound. Digital is 'perfect' analogue has discrepencies with it. in any case show me a plugin that replicates tape saturation. you wont cause emulation will never be as good as the real thing.

theres my 10 cents anyhow

[PoorGlory]

Most of that article is true. It was written poorly though.

[sahiaman]

Originally Posted by Dee Tee

you wont cause emulation will never be as good as the real thing.

theres my 10 cents anyhow

Thats true right now. But I belive the only reason a plugin emulation can't produce the sounds of a hardware, is not because of the limitations of software, but the limitations of human understanding of sound. Computers do whatever we tell them, if we can't make a plugin to sound like the real thing, its because we don't understand the math behind the real thing, not just yet.
Using the Fourier transform, every complex sound wave can be broken down in a simple sine wave. The the math behind the sound of tubes has too many variables, and I think we haven't been able to grasp it yet.
But if you have noticed in the past few years we have been getting closer and closer to plugins emulating the real thing. Its just a matter of time.

[scottdominant]

Uhm......yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with most of what he said. What did you take exception to exactly? The only thing I question is burn in......I think it is applicable with headphones and what not....but he really doesn't mention headphones.....

[freestyle tromb]

Originally Posted by scottdominant

Uhm......yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with most of what he said. What did you take exception to exactly? The only thing I question is burn in......I think it is applicable with headphones and what not....but he really doesn't mention headphones.....

He does mention speakers, though, as they are a mechanical device- just like headphones. They're both transducers. A headphone is just a small speaker. I think we can cut him some slack on that one.

[Lasermonkey]

What bollocks!!! Utter, utter drivel.
Damn, I'm mad now..................

[scottdominant]

Originally Posted by freestyle tromb

He does mention speakers, though, as they are a mechanical device- just like headphones. They're both transducers. A headphone is just a small speaker. I think we can cut him some slack on that one.

agreed.

This is really gonna piss off the people over at headfi.org....those cats who think they can hear a .1 dB boost in frequency X.....

[allencollins]

#1 is wrong.

At least from a noise/interference perspective good cable filters out alot of crap
Twisted pair and twisted quad cable is very clean

Also materials such as gold and silver conduct better than others.

#2 Tubes add a certain texture to the source. Whether it's a tube gtr amp
pre mic whatever. They sound different than solidstate. Not always better but different.

#3. I wish this was true I wouldn't have spent 6k on my converters trying to
sound analog

the rest seem like bull too. Is this a joke?

[Pasta4lnch]

I like how manufactures are using tubes for our "corrupted tastes"

[poncival]

Where can I get that stuff to rub on my mp3's to make them sound better?

[octatonic]

Agree with most of it, except the whole 'tubes' issue.

Valve guitar amps kick the ass of trannies all over the schoolyard.
It isn't even up for debate as far as I am concerned.

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Agree with most of it, except the whole 'tubes' issue.

Valve guitar amps kick the ass of trannies all over the schoolyard.
It isn't even up for debate as far as I am concerned.

When this guy is writing about tube amps, he is referring to amps for your hi-fi, not guitar amps. Guitar tube amps colour the sound, which just so happens to sound better to any people.

[Y-Studios]

Hey! Nice article,

I don't agree about the Tubes, now on the digital vs. analog issue I agree. I think is all about the technology. In the past digital recording has suffered because of the low quality and it could not compare to analog. But right now you can make a song, one done in 100% analog and another done in pt or something else. With the right experience you can get them to sound the same. But you can't just have someone who has been in analog all their life to just get on pt or any daw and expect him to get the same result. I think today’s technology is good enough , and if you are tracking, mixing or whatever "digitally" and you are not getting that "analog" sound then I am sorry to say, but you need practice and learn more.

Just my .02

[Marty J]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Also materials such as gold and silver conduct better than others.

So?

#2 Tubes add a certain texture to the source. Whether it's a tube gtr amp
pre mic whatever. They sound different than solidstate. Not always better but different.

The article does not disagree with this.

#3. I wish this was true I wouldn't have spent 6k on my converters trying to
sound analog

You'd do better paying attention to mic placement and acoustics as the article suggests. I'm not sure why you disagree with this.

the rest seem like bull too. Is this a joke?

[londontown]

Originally Posted by telefunky

Hello Slutz!
I found this surfin' the net and I had to post it here. I think some of what he says may be true, but I think you will find most is complete nonsense. Especially if you have spent any time working/building/fixing/designing a studio.

Takes 5 minutes to read, and a lifetime to argue about!

Keep the tubes warm,

-Telefunky

Got to agree with everything on there. Don't see any nonsense.
Except perhaps the tube thing, where the 'distortion' he mentions can be a GOOD thing, in particular instances, but he isn't technically wrong.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

He forgot "Your check is in the mail."

I thought it was "I'm a producer".


Oh, right, there's an article, too. Some of it is spot on. Other things, such as the ad hominem attacks on people for liking tubes, I thought were misguided. Knocking down a bunch of straw-man arguments isn't exactly what I would call an intellectual tour de force. The article seemed more like an exercise in ego than an attempt at rational persuasion, IMHO. But that should have been obvious from the title, now, shouldn't it?

[ttauri]

Originally Posted by londontown

Except perhaps the tube thing, where the 'distortion' he mentions can be a GOOD thing, in particular instances, but he isn't technically wrong.

Though I suppose if I were in the hi-fi world, I'd be inclined to be more strident about it (as he is) just because the claims there are so often that some piece of stereo equipment is letting the listener hear more truly what's already there in the music; not claiming that these things are adding some euphonic character of their own.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[londontown]

YES....indeed - I guess that is what he was referring to, the use in audiophile applications like CD players or the like. Dead right.

My favorite of late is that I read somewhere - a major audiophile magazine..."a watt of vacuum tube power is more powerful than one watt of solid state power". For real.
I do love it when they describe the differences they hear in such ridiculous terms too...as if suddenly a whole missing chunk of the picture has been uncovered and the music is somehow different with it. It's like the old cable missed out the woodwinds, or the 2nd synth part or something completely new.

[doorknocker]

Utter bullshit, anybody that says 16/44.1 audio is more than enough hasn't got any ears, period.

Obviously cables make a big difference, nobody says you need $ 2000/per foot ones though.

Burn-in period? Yes! I experienced it with my very own ears, most certainly with my Genelec 8040s, UA 6176 and even with my friggin' TEAC 'Retro' Boombox..... It's real, and the minute that I can't trust my ears anymore is the minute I retire....



(All you need is a POD, why bother with those dated, heavy, expensive and unreliable TUBE amps anymore, ya gotta be kiddin'......)