UA LA610 <- NOT A FAN

[Chevron]

Just off loaded a UA LA610 after just a few months. The popular opinion that it has very little headroom is true. All too easy to hit edgey distortion with dynamic vocalists. Even when using the line in from another mic pre.

Shame because I actually liked the comp on it when tracking vox, and it sure was a client pleaser in terms of looks...

Should have just gone for the CL1b

[lord_bunny]

it's got plenty of head-room IMO... i didn't read the manual at first and i experienced the same thing, it so easy to get that thing to drive.

if i remember correctly you should start with the gain at -10 to maximize negative feedback and minimize harmonic distortion. from there with a dynamic singer I believe I had the level set around 7 - 10.

I'll tell you though!: i had the LA610 and a Peluso P12, compressing to DAW, and later used my Aphex 1100 into the DAW and using the UAD-1 LA2A to compress in the mix.

If there there were sonic differences between the two methods, I didn't care about them... or notice.

[pan60]

for hi-fi clean with little color i really like the A-Designs MP-2A, lots of headroom.
now for some tube mojo that can go from clean to mojo mojo it has to be LaChapell Audio..
i am just finishing a review on Scotts new 500 format pre the 583s. it just eats my LA-610.

[macleodgrant]

i have noticed that the VU needle is hitting the top once i've gained enough to get a decent level going into my DAW. is this what you mean?

i still love it for DI. my next preamp will be a Great River ME 1NV

[Chevron]

Yeah getting a decent level into a DAW proved difficult. I work with a lot of very dynamic vocalists and you had to be really on your toes to avoid clipping with this box.

Especially with interfaces setup for -18. In fact the 610 would clip and max out before you could reach digital clipping on converters set at -18. I've also got an Aurora GTQ2 and API 7600 and with both boxes you can get a healthy amount of gain and nice level to digital and theres still room for dynamic parts. UA state the Max Output Level as +20 dBu, and the API claim the 7600 can output +30 dBm. Never paid much attention to technical specifications before, reckon I will from now on.....

[mynameischance]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i have noticed that the VU needle is hitting the top once i've gained enough to get a decent level going into my DAW. is this what you mean?

i still love it for DI. my next preamp will be a Great River ME 1NV

Very funny that you say that.

I've had the UA 2-610 for a couple of years. My first true tube mic pre. But I've done a lot of analysis of my studio lately. Really trying to make sure I'm getting the best bang and more imporatantly, the right tones that i want for my buck.

So, just yesterday I ordered the Great River ME 1NV as well. It gets here on Friday and I'll start A/B'ing it against my 2610. If Great River wins, the UA will get sold.
If not, GR goes back!

My general thinking, is I'm feeling tone to be a little "singed." It's got this searing sizzle to it. I don't know how else to describe it. And I'm looking for a bit of a darker warmer tone than I'm currently getting. My voice has plenty of "presence knob" hi's to it, so hopefully the Great River may help get the tone I hear in my head.

I'll keep my fellow GS'ers posted on whether the UA gets sold. Otherwise, it'll just go on EBay.

[Freematik]

I have an LA-610 and sometimes run into headroom issues, depending on mic and vocalist. It can be velvety and perfect with some sources, harsh and nasty with others.

Like a previous person said, you can get a smoother sound by turning Gain down to -10 and cranking the Level on the pre side and comp side to make up gain. Also, some mics require the -15db pad.

It's not great on everything, but it might be the coolest bass DI ever!!

[Chevron]

Hey mynameis - for the "darker warmer tone" you mention check out the Aurora GTQ2 stereo pre. Your description is pretty much that unit.

[Stoneroses6300]

Yeah, I had the same issue with my solo 610. Vocals took up no space compared to everything else in the mix that was recorded with the upgraded BLA pres with the 002...I switched back to those BLA pres and the vocals were again filling up a mix at a level that was not distorting, not to mention much more clearer, open and detailed. The 610 I found to be a limited pre. I used it to get a slightly different character for some lead acoustic parts...and used it for some tambourine and shakers...but overall its a closed sound that you cant get a lot of headroom out of...at least going into protools...

[layez]

Originally Posted by mynameischance

Very funny that you say that.

I've had the UA 2-610 for a couple of years. My first true tube mic pre. But I've done a lot of analysis of my studio lately. Really trying to make sure I'm getting the best bang and more imporatantly, the right tones that i want for my buck.

So, just yesterday I ordered the Great River ME 1NV as well. It gets here on Friday and I'll start A/B'ing it against my 2610. If Great River wins, the UA will get sold.
If not, GR goes back!

My general thinking, is I'm feeling tone to be a little "singed." It's got this searing sizzle to it. I don't know how else to describe it. And I'm looking for a bit of a darker warmer tone than I'm currently getting. My voice has plenty of "presence knob" hi's to it, so hopefully the Great River may help get the tone I hear in my head.

I'll keep my fellow GS'ers posted on whether the UA gets sold. Otherwise, it'll just go on EBay.

I dont have the 2-610, but keep in mind that the 1NV isnt a tube preamp, so it's going to be quite a bit different. Not saying you shouldnt sell it, but a stereo mic pre is always great to have But the 1nv is a damn fine box. i've always wanted the 610 but cant justify it since i have a sebatron 4000e

[gregkat]

Originally Posted by Chevron

Just off loaded a UA LA610 after just a few months. The popular opinion that it has very little headroom is true. All too easy to hit edgey distortion with dynamic vocalists. Even when using the line in from another mic pre.

Shame because I actually liked the comp on it when tracking vox, and it sure was a client pleaser in terms of looks...

Should have just gone for the CL1b

Too bad. Really love mine. different strokes.

[mellotronic]

The LA 610 is a completely different animal then a transistor pre like Neve API etc...
I'm as amazed by people who use it on everything as I am by the people who completely write it off. It's modeled on BIll Putnams all tube 50's/60's design which works and sounds way different than the Neve and Electrodyne solid state stuff etc... that starting comming out in the late 60's (70's.... to now) It's a serious tube/flavor box and sounds great when used along side other pres. Requires imagination and tweaking as opposed to"this is how I usually set my levels... blah blah". If you use your ears instead of your eyes, there is a lot of musical magic in the LA610. You kind of have to love 60's production to "get it" I think. It's big, wide, warm and pretty tough, but not modern-punchy ( just like records made in the 60's!). I love it on vocals (follow with 1176 or Distressor), Back-ground vocals, Bass, Organ, Mellotrons. It's not my favorite for guitars, but I haven't messed with it much for that. If I did use it on guitars I would go ahead and use something different on vocals to contrast. I haven't had headroom problems, but you have to tweak A LOT for each different instrument you use it on. It's not a "set by memorization" modern thing. Hope this helps.

[chrispick]

Originally Posted by mellotronic

I'm as amazed by people who use it on everything as I am by the people who completely write it off.

Same here

It's a serious tube/flavor box and sounds great when used along side other pres. Requires imagination and tweaking as opposed to"this is how I usually set my levels... blah blah". If you use your ears instead of your eyes, there is a lot of musical magic in the LA610. You kind of have to love 60's production to "get it" I think. It's big, wide, warm and pretty tough, but not modern-punchy ( just like records made in the 60's!). I love it on vocals (follow with 1176 or Distressor), Back-ground vocals, Bass, Organ, Mellotrons.

Agreed (regarding the 610, that is).

It's not my favorite for guitars... I haven't had headroom problems, but you have to tweak A LOT for each different instrument you use it on. It's not a "set by memorization" modern thing.

Yep.

[EKG Productions]

It's funny how so many people have head room problems mine has pleanty. I have the 6176 and have used it in many situations from bass to vocals. I think alot of people just don't get the gain staging right. In protools recording hot does not make anything sound better so get a good level and turn the rest of your faders down and let the good times roll. Also don't let this site discourage use of any piece. People here bash everything from distressors to 737 sp's. The only things they do like are SSL's and TAD monitors.

ps. The post comparing the bla mod 002 to a 610 sounds fishy. If you get a better sound from that then something else in your chain or room i.e. vocal booth or live room may be to blame. From my expierience the 610 makes a turd sound like a giant turd. But hey gear is like women beauty is in the "eye" of the beholder.

[craigmorris74]

Originally Posted by EKG Productions

ps. The post comparing the bla mod 002 to a 610 sounds fishy. If you get a better sound from that then something else in your chain or room i.e. vocal booth or live room may be to blame. From my expierience the 610 makes a turd sound like a giant turd.

My thoughts exactly. The LA610 is a seriously thick sounding box. Don't always like it, but it shure thickens things up.

Craig

[pan60]

wow

i am not going to dis the LA-610, i think it is a nice pre.
for some reason i thought this was a looking for another tube pre thread?
speaking of tambourine and shakers, i will have to try it as tambourine and shakers are on the menu this week.

[PKatis]

I have a feeling that most people complaining about the 610's headroom aren't recording to tape machines. Most preamps (especially vintage or vintage-modeled preamps) don't really have the headroom to pin a meter in a DAW. If you set all your recording levels to be as hot as possible into your DAW, I'm pretty sure you're distorting all sorts of things and not always in a good way(even if it's not obviously clipping like the 610). On an analog tape machine, I've found the 610 has more than enough headroom to put a meter into the red.

The 610 doesn't always blow me away. Sometimes it sits unused for months. But! I've found it can be really great for bass(D.I.&amp) and contrary to other opinions in this thread, it's a very solid pre for electric guitars. Just don't be afraid to print well below full scale. DAWs love headroom!

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by PKatis

I have a feeling that most people complaining about the 610's headroom aren't recording to tape machines. Most preamps (especially vintage or vintage-modeled preamps) don't really have the headroom to pin a meter in a DAW. If you set all your recording levels to be as hot as possible into your DAW, I'm pretty sure you're distorting all sorts of things and not always in a good way(even if it's not obviously clipping like the 610). On an analog tape machine, I've found the 610 has more than enough headroom to put a meter into the red.

After reading the first couple responses, this is exactly what came to my mind.

Too many people feel it's necessary to average well above -18dbfs or so, and in turn destroy their headroom.

The LA610 is very cool, and can be quite clean if used properly.

However, it's rare that I'll use it on more than two tracks on any given song.

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by Freematik

make up gain. Also, some mics require the -15db pad.

It's not great on everything, but it might be the coolest bass DI ever!!

I SO AGREE!!!

True it doesn't sound good on all vocalist but thatz jus like a mic; I also have one & i love it...On certain vocalist tho; but on guitars & bass, OH-MY-GOODNESS-ON'EIM.....

[barryjohns]

I've never had an issue with Levels using my LA610; I find it outstanding for Bass DI and Acoustic Guitar. If I'm going Vox through a 610 pre, I usually use my 6176 for that.

I usually use my Great River ME1nv for electric guitars and Pacifica for most Vox applications.

However, before I had those Pres, the 610 was my 1st pre and used it for everything then and got very good results with it.

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by chrispick

Same here



Agreed (regarding the 610, that is).



Yep.

2ND THAT....

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by EKG Productions

ps. The post comparing the bla mod 002 to a 610 sounds fishy. If you get a better sound from that then something else in your chain or room i.e. vocal booth or live room may be to blame.

Now I must say with me having the LA-610 as well as the Bla mod, & having the UA b4 & after the mod, the mod pres really do sound jus as good as the 610....Mics are of course a vital piece of that equation of course but like i said I have both so I can speak on that...With that being said, mics would be an issue with the 610 only....I mean if ur(generally speaking) runnin a $7.99 mic plus tax in a pricely unit, need i say more....

[Chevron]

I'm not really bashing the sound of the 610, found the DI with the shelving eq(especially for bass as people mention) was big, warm and detailed and I liked the way the compressor worked whilst tracking....

I just find that other gear like the GTQ2, Neve 1066 and API 7600 have a larger sweet spot and I don't have to be so concerned about vocalists singing hard and loud getting distorted. I was forever listening to solo'ed vocals to see if they had that nasty clipping from the 610 that would come out even more when mixing. I'm not a lazy ass set it and forget guy and I'm always riding the gain when recording, it's just when using the 610 I was riding the gain like a mad man. (Maybe that's why the gain knob is so big)

As for levels into the DAW being healthy, I like to see vocals being recorded peaking around -5 dbfs. It makes for easier editing in the DAWs I use and whilst not making a noticable difference to the sound makes me feel better.

If the headroom improved or someone came with a mod to squeeze a little more then I would get another LA 610.

[DROSS]

if you know how to use your La610 properly, headroom and distortion will NOT be a problem. I can let the most dynamic singers go wild on the pre without ever having to worry about distortion. I set the T4 compressor to "limit" lightly and I never have a problem. I also have a VIntech x73i which I now run into my La610. This marriage is better than either one seperately for anyone's voice. I get the controlled warmth from the vintech and the vintage "crunch" instead of harsh sibilance for the high end. I had a problem with headroom at first until I realized I was slamming the input(not the output ) on the 610 without properly usind the level gain. THe three meter selections allow you to pinpoint where your signal is peaking at. Use it right and you've got a real weapon for a dirt cheap price.

[hurd300403]

+1 for taking the time to learn the gain staging of this preamp. it takes some getting used to, but once you get it you GOT it. seriously made me fall in love with all my mics again!

bottom line: it's a wonderful preamp if you know how to use it correctly.

a great river me-1nv is next on my list (different flavor), but i'm not in any rush...

[popmann]

The LA610 is very cool, and can be quite clean if used properly.

Yes. You're setting it incorrectly if you can't get it clean or doesn't have "headroom".

I had the two...my Great River got sold. Not that the GR isnt' a damn nice box...but, we all have our preferences. If I had to make a record using just one...well, the GR might get the nod. But, Millenia would get the nod over that--in that scenario. So, I kept the Hv3 and the La610. Clean and crystal. Warm and soft. easy to make the call between the two on the fly.

[Micah Tolentino]

610 in m/s on shakers and small precussion is rediculous.

Try it!

[mynameischance]

Originally Posted by Chevron

Hey mynameis - for the "darker warmer tone" you mention check out the Aurora GTQ2 stereo pre. Your description is pretty much that unit.

Thanks for the tip, Chevron! I will!