Jobs Other than Recording or Mixing Music?

[ILLSON]

ok, here's my question with a little background..

im a 25 year old recording engineer, been doing this for quite some time now. ive had great success at what i do, so im doing something right lol..

now earlier this year, i was workin with some quickly up and coming producers, and i was thier main engineer.. just off the strength of working with them, i was able to get all kinds of work and made a lot of money.. now without gettin into the whole story i'll just say "shit happens" and i dont work with them anymore..

i still had side projects going but they started to become few and far between.. i called as many ex-clients and contacts i had and nothin much helped.. i didnt burn a bridge or anything with the previous guys, its just i wasnt finding much work..

so that got me to thinking, what else can i do with the skills i posses in sound engineering? i know i could get into television but i wouldnt know the first step and what techniques are being used..

right now im workin with a great RnB producer and we've been working alot and i've seen good money and this is a very promising oportunity; we're already about to get a few placements and hes got a label deal and he's already signed a few new artists.. im just wondering where i can go if shit happens again..

thanks sluts

[lowfreq33]

F**k that man, I want to hear the story!

Seriously though, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Try to make use of networking opportunities every time one comes along. I've been told that to keep a steady paycheck you need to be booked at least 3 months out. This is getting harder to do these days, but it's a good suggestion. I'm freelance, and I never, ever turn down work. Ever. (Well, I've got a 4 hour minimum in place, but you know what I mean.)

[drBill]

It's not a very good marketplace right now to be finding new clients. All the various facets of audio recording are pretty much over run with too many engineers for not enough work. You could consider :

Post - you will need to start at the very bottom
Commercial Voiceovers
Radio Stations
TV stations
Recordist for on location filming
Audio for games (pretty much the same as post, but for a different company)
Live Sound
Theme Park Audio
Install contractors

One word of advice - take care of you clients as best as you possibly can. There are not that many willing (or perhaps able) to pay an engineer what he's worth these days.

bp

[ILLSON]

Yea i feel both of you, i dont think its an issue of my work ethic, im pretty experienced at running professional studio sessions and whatnot and make sure the client is as happy as possible, with my job or anything else.. i gotta justify someone paying me 75 an hour to track vocals..

but shit, ive done mixes for 50 bucks lol...

im just wondering what else is out there, cuz this music industry is pretty shitty when it comes to business.. but then again, thats prolly every buisness..

thanks drbill, good info..

i did some small research into video game sound but theres no companies out here in miami.. i subcribed to audio gang and looked into it..
and i wonder what kind of pay is involved at the tv stations.. telemundo was lookin for some experienced protools engineers to edit audio and do tape transfers and what not but that doesnt sound like you make a good living off of that.. probably like 30 grand a year..

plus i wonder what are the proprietary programs and equipment the other industries use.. im sure not everyone is protools or logic based..

[Daniel Antix]

I work at a radio staiton producing radio commercials... it's piss easy, sit hear record voice overs, edit/de-breath/comp/eq whack in a music bed maybe some sound fx... you may not want full time work but we have some free lance guys we call if I or some one else takes a week off here or there and they usually get work with all the different stations in Sydney (Im in Australia btw but Im sure the same thing happens where you are).

Maybe you could find some freelance work in radio... just call up the stations and offer your services... happens all the time here.

[russrags]

Hey Illson,

I'm a 49 yr old Engineer and I've been doing it full time without falling back on anything else since I was your age. The 1st part of my career was a fast and furious roller coaster ride, but as years go by, I've learned how to smooth out the ride to a point that I don't even sweat it. Lowfreq was right, you can't put all your eggs in one basket. As soon as you start depending on one person to fulfill all your needs, word gets out that you've got a steady gig, and your phone stops ringing.

At your age, you will still have many hurdles yet to cross, so engaging in related area's of music will make you more well rounded, therefore more valuable. There seems to be a pretty strong division between people who make records and people who do TV/Film audio. Your dreams plus drive and desire will determine the outcome.

For me, the bulk has been in the studio as freelance independent. This year I've done more FOH than all years combined in my career. It's been kind of exhilarating, as it's just been for a couple artists that I recorded and mixed their albums, so I know the music inside and out. When I put together my home Studio in 1994 is when the roller coaster ride really smoothed out. It's not that I used the commercial studios and less, I just make more music and it's still this way today. The home studio has let me start projects at home, finish them up at a commercial studio, start projects in a commercial studio and bring home the work for overdubs and mixing and even Mastering which has supplemented my income somewhat. I've also been able to bring in a few more paychecks, by being able to solder, make custom cables, wire patch bays, setup studio's for people. Archiving is a huge area that is pretty fun and rewarding, I do it so much for other people, I've not had much time to do it for myself.

Networking is as important as the next breath of air you suck in. It will generally be 1-3 years after contact with a potential future client before it actually happens, so you can see why it has to be done regularly. When I do a job old or new, I treat it as if my next breath of air depends on it, that has made a big difference, of course I'm selective about what gigs I take on, as the music has got to get me excited too. It doesn't hurt to appear a little busier than you really are too. The next time those big Producers call, tell them your really busy (even if your just hanging out on GearSlutz) that your going to have to call them back.

Stick with it, as I've always said to myself, "if I quit now, that'll just open a door for someone else far less talented." I didn't intend to write a book here, but don't mind sharing things with you that could smooth out your ride.

Best of luck,

Russ
Nashville
"In Order To Predict The Future ... Create It"

[lowfreq33]

Very good points. The live sound thing can save you sometimes. I work part time for one of the big churches here and they've been pretty great. They let me work as much or as little as I need to, so during slow months (like this one) I can still make enough to keep the bills paid, and when I get busy I don't have to turn down studio work to keep that gig. There's always work in live sound (because it's a lot more like real work), and it sharpens your skills as well.

[Damusica]

That's some true advice. I consider myself lucky to have my "job" be the same as my "hobby"(interchangeable depending on the artist).
I've come to find my market lacking talented engineers. There are some but not many.
Having a steady gig is a nice thing but always keeping your options open without stepping on anyone's toes will definately yield greater gains. I have an open relationship with my boss that alows me to do other work as long as it's not competing with his business. So that just makes him a preffered client. We're all happy.
Good luck on your quest.

[Nu Mixer]

<< been doing this for quite some time now. ive had great success at what i do >>

<< im pretty experienced at running professional studio sessions >>

Wait.. you're the same guy that posted this earlier this year:

<< i have an mbox running 6.4 and im recording from my rode K2 (yo what a dope tube mic for the price by the way) straight into the mbox using only the preamp on the mbox, anyways, im gettin a delay in the headphones from the vocal track and its messin up my girl cuz shes hearin herself delayed instead of live.. >>

You are running pro sessions and don't know how to adjust the Playback engine buffer? This is BASIC Protools stuff (on an Mbox or HD system).

[ILLSON]

Originally Posted by Nu Mixer

<< been doing this for quite some time now. ive had great success at what i do >>

<< im pretty experienced at running professional studio sessions >>

Wait.. you're the same guy that posted this earlier this year:

<< i have an mbox running 6.4 and im recording from my rode K2 (yo what a dope tube mic for the price by the way) straight into the mbox using only the preamp on the mbox, anyways, im gettin a delay in the headphones from the vocal track and its messin up my girl cuz shes hearin herself delayed instead of live.. >>

You are running pro sessions and don't know how to adjust the Playback engine buffer? This is BASIC Protools stuff (on an Mbox or HD system).

want to do me a favor and stop acting like a little internet forum bitch?

and if u were smart enough, you'd know it wasnt a playback engine issue dick head.. its a usb mbox so they tried to fix latencey with that mix/input knob.. and if i gotta explain myself, i cant have a computer at the house that i havent used in a long ass time cuz im normally in better studios than my house to record some no budget shit with my girl?? im sure a lot of people would forget about that after not touching an mbox for a long time..

**** out of here with that bitch shit man.. fukin internet geek.. youre not even a moderator and you keepin track of what everyone posts? grow up man.. god damn man that was some real homo shit you just did for real.. instead of helpin out. youre content with being a dick.. congradulations


to everyone else who posted thanks a lot for all the advice, im going to look into all of those opportunites.. i worked up into a great situation, always thinking and knowing that my spot is not solidified and i could be out of this at any given moment, and tryin to stay on point at all times, and still not expecting it when it happens, is a rough thing..

and definitely russrags.. people knew i was busy and some of my side projects stopped trying to get to me cuz i honestly had my time caught up with my main 2 clients, but who wouldnt with the money and opportunity it presented? so its like a double edged sword..

just tryin learn the balance

[obtainknowledge]

I guess being an English teacher is out of the question.

[aermotor]

That's why freelance can suck balls but at the same time be the most rewarding by far. I think there's a lot of things you could try and get into, but none will be as fun as recording/engineering.

As much as I love recording etc, I find the pay pretty weak compared to what I get paid doing graphic design, so I'm always torn and haven't really bothered to expand my clientele, even though I want to be doing a lot more than I am.

[sodium glow]

Originally Posted by obtainknowledge

I guess being an English teacher is out of the question.

That's the hardest I've laughed in a LONG time!


But seriously man....I've found that over the years the roller coaster settles down a bit and word of mouth keeps you going as long as you give people what they want and have a great attitude.

Congrats to you though on the major work at a relatively young age.

[redstudio]

funny stuff... ha

[ImJohn]

You might want to check out a copy of The Musical Engineer :
The Musical Engineer: A Music Enthusiast's Guide to Careers in Engineering and Technology

Lots of alternative ideas on audio jobs other than the obvious. And a lot of the pictures were taken by me of my own slutty gear!

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by ILLSON

i wonder what kind of pay is involved at the tv stations.. telemundo was lookin for some experienced protools engineers to edit audio and do tape transfers and what not but that doesnt sound like you make a good living off of that.. probably like 30 grand a year..

So, you're 25 years old and insulted by the prospect of $30k a year for studio work?

Well then... Get the F* out of audio. Right now. Don't look back. Move on. It's not for you.

Although I understand where you're coming from, and it is possible to make more than $30k at your age if you're very good or very well connected, let's be serious... with that kind of attitude, you're going to be miserable.

There's plenty of other lines of work out there.

Originally Posted by obtainknowledge

I guess being an English teacher is out of the question.

Oh....


....snap.

[Graham Tobias]

Just keep shaking hands and collecting business cards. Make sure you're ambitious and constantly looking for work and take every job you can get if you're not busy. If you keep looking for work, you'll find it. I also feel like if you need a business "kick-start" do live work. Almost every time I've done live gigs, someone's asked me for a business card or chatted me up about audio or anything. Most of the time I'll end a gig with at least one or 2 bands interested in recording in the future. Then the homework aspect comes in... keep emailing them regularly to see how they're doing. Keep yourself fresh in their minds and let them know about some of the exciting work (especially stuff they can related to) you're doing. Live work is almost like paid networking. Networking with the engineering world is also immensely useful. Get to know lots of people and get them to trust you and when they have a gig they can't take, they'll pass it to you. Invest in yourself too, make a website, have a constantly updated resume, buy a mic that nobody in town has, etc...

Just keep pushing for work. It works. I'm 19, I've been working professionally for about a year and a half and I've gotten my hands all over stuff for rounder records, warner bros nashville, concert DVD's, etc... I have a decently big name client for boston and tons of other clients and credits. I'm waiting for this friday to see if I've been nominated for 2 independent music awards. I worked my ass off. Especially in the last 6 months, I pulled at least three or four 16 hour days a week. By december I'll have completed the construction of my mobile rig and I'll be starting a live recording company to go on top of my freelance work. The harder you push and the more you invest in yourself, the further you'll go and the faster you'll get there. You'll also realize rather quickly if it's the right career for you.

good luck!

[Nu Mixer]

<< Although I understand where you're coming from, and it is possible to make more than $30k at your age if you're very good or very well connected, let's be serious... with that kind of attitude, you're going to be miserable. >>

Agreed! That was my impetus in searching his recent posts. When I found some newby question about the Mbox, it really raised suspicion.

If this guy really was successful at 25, he would have ignored my posting, or perhaps explained himself in an articulate manner. But instead he became very defensive and hostile. (Not exactly a good trait in someone requesting job advice!) I can see I ruffled his feathers. A true PRO would have more confidence, self-control and restraint.

Let's recap: I make a comment about one of his recent postings, and he feels the need to call me a bitch, a dick head, an internet geek, a homo and a dick.

Good luck, my friend!


<< stop acting like a little internet forum bitch >>

<< it wasnt a playback engine issue dick head.. >>

<< out of here with that bitch shit man >>

<< fukin internet geek >>

<< god damn man that was some real homo shit >>

<<youre content with being a dick >>

[Faderjockey]

Porn

[Chevron]

Yeah ILLSON chill out. Nu mixer had a valid point and your response didn't make you look good. I've seen guys who have a little success early on in their career and get arrogant then it all goes fades and they're left just being ignorant pricks who find it hard to get work.

Not too smart a post either if some Miami Post/TV studio manager is reading and looking to take a punt and hire some Pro Tools op/engineer.....

I'm not so curious now why it didn't work out with your "shit happens" clients from your first post?