What divides good mics from bad mics?

Lennon · 20th October 2007, 09:59 PM

HI. I was thinking about what actually divides a good mic from a not so good one.
I have just bought some different mics, Cad trions, GXL3000, Shinybox.

Take the Shinybox that I have. (Lundahl Trafo). What would be the audible difference from a RCA ribbon mic? What hardware differences could there be?

Also say the CAD gxl3000, what in the electronic circuit could be made better.

If I look inside my old U87 circuit it seems to have more, bigger caps/resistors.

Difficult to say, I know, but anyone?

Best from Lennon.

Hob · 20th October 2007, 10:29 PM

It's because the good mics have a tube inside that actually warms the sound when it goes through there just like a guitar amp with tubes sounds better. It's not cheap though because the one that's really good is the U47 that costs $10,000 but that is that expensive sound.

Blast9 · 20th October 2007, 10:56 PM

Except for the good solid-state ones

Hob · 20th October 2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blast9

Except for the good solid-state ones

I think he is talking about for profesional quality not begginer. Tubes blow away solid state have you ever compared a Marshall amp to a solid state Crate amp? Theres no comparison. But it depends on if you are picky or not.

Lennon · 20th October 2007, 11:05 PM

But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout?

L;

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

I think he is talking about for profesional quality not begginer. Tubes blow away solid state have you ever compared a Marshall amp to a solid state Crate amp? Theres no comparison. But it depends on if you are picky or not.

I can't tell if you're joking or not but you can't compare amplifiers with microphones!

The Neumann U87 is the single most used LDC mic out there and has been used on countless "professional" records yet it is not a tube mic.

The schoeps line of SDC's is the de-facto industry standard in "professional" classical recording yet it is not a tube mic.

What about ribbon mics? They defined what "professional" means in terms of recording vocals and you know what? They don't have tubes in 'em.

I could go on and on and on...

Get your facts straight man.

Hob · 20th October 2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout?

L;

It's the tubes because they aren't cheap but it's the only way to get that sound.

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

HI. I was thinking about what actually divides a good mic from a not so good one.
I have just bought some different mics, Cad trions, GXL3000, Shinybox.

Take the Shinybox that I have. (Lundahl Trafo). What would be the audible difference from a RCA ribbon mic? What hardware differences could there be?

Also say the CAD gxl3000, what in the electronic circuit could be made better.

If I look inside my old U87 circuit it seems to have more, bigger caps/resistors.

Difficult to say, I know, but anyone?

Best from Lennon.

Hard to say what makes a "good" mic. I guess good mics are made with tender loving care

Blast9 · 20th October 2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

It's the tubes because they aren't cheap but it's the only way to get that sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Do some research before you come on here yelling at people. Solid state didn't even exist when the U87 was made. That is an old mic. It's used a lot because of the warmth of the tube. How can you get warmth without running it through there?

LMFBO

Blast9 · 20th October 2007, 11:17 PM

PS Klaus Heyne over at PSW has a forum where you can probably get sensible answers.

I'd like to know too

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Do some research before you come on here yelling at people. Solid state didn't even exist when the U87 was made. That is an old mic. It's used a lot because of the warmth of the tube. How can you get warmth without running it through there?

LOL!

The U87 was specifically designed as the solid-state version of the tube U67.
Transistors have been around for quite a while you know...

As for getting warmth in a studio setting, I once made a record in a studio with a fireplace and it was really warm in there. As far as I can recall, there were no tubes in that fire. Unless you call logs "wooden tubes" that is...Sheesh!

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

LOL! Do you think I just got off the bus or something?

Yes. I do.

PRobb · 20th October 2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennon

But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout?

L;

Put the two next to each other and A/B. The answer should be clear.

And I'm going to assume Hob is kidding.

Long_Shaded_Eye · 20th October 2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Do some research before you come on here yelling at people. Solid state didn't even exist when the U87 was made. That is an old mic. It's used a lot because of the warmth of the tube. How can you get warmth without running it through there?

are YOU on drugs ?

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRobb

And I'm going to assume Hob is kidding.

I certainly hope so

narcoman · 20th October 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Dude seriously where do you get your information? Are you trying to tell me that the U87 that everybody likes on vocals doesn't have tubes in it?
LOL! Do you think I just got off the bus or something?

yes that is precisely what he is trying to tell you. Ive fourteen of the fekkers in my mic cupboard - not one has a tube. Neither do my classic Neve pre's...

I think your still on the bus.

soundawg · 20th October 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Dude seriously where do you get your information? Are you trying to tell me that the U87 that everybody likes on vocals doesn't have tubes in it?
LOL! Do you think I just got off the bus or something?

LMFAO!!!

That is the only explanation because you are sooooo wrong!!!

First time I've used that one!

Soundawg

soundawg · 20th October 2007, 11:36 PM

Hey Blender - Here ya go...

Neumann Microphone Finder

Soundawg

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Dude seriously where do you get your information?

For argument's sake, coz I still think you're taking the piss, were do you see a tube here?

U87 Schematics

The_Phoenix · 20th October 2007, 11:38 PM

IMAO, there isn't a good and bad mic. Microphones add character to a vocal or instrument. Someone could sound good on a $5,ooo mic and a $5,ooo preamp. Although, they may sound better on a $4oo mic and and a 5,ooo preamp. There are times I woud prefer a cheapo mic over an expensive mic. Maybe not for the main vocals, but for backround vocals or any other form of layering. It also depends on the song, combination of artists, instruments, etc.

s.d.finley · 20th October 2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Do some research before you come on here yelling at people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Dude seriously where do you get your information? Are you trying to tell me that the U87 that everybody likes on vocals doesn't have tubes in it?
LOL! Do you think I just got off the bus or something?

Unless youre talking about this....http://www.innertubeaudio.com/u87retrofit.html

Hob · 20th October 2007, 11:40 PM

OK!

Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. We will have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure but I do know that the U47 has tubes in it and it is in the same family so it only makes sense.

narcoman · 20th October 2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

OK!

Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. We will have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure but I do know that the U47 has tubes in it and it is in the same family so it only makes sense.

totally understand your logic bro' but none of the many 87's i have contain tubes.

s.d.finley · 20th October 2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

OK!

Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. We will have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure but I do know that the U47 has tubes in it and it is in the same family so it only makes sense.

Stock U87=no tube

Innertube U87 mod=tube

Hob · 20th October 2007, 11:45 PM

I never actually said that the U87 had a tube in it anyways. You guys just assumed that.

PRobb · 20th October 2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

OK!

Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. We will have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure but I do know that the U47 has tubes in it and it is in the same family so it only makes sense.

No. The 87 solid state. Always has been.
And there is also a fet47.

narcoman · 20th October 2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

I never actually said that the U87 had a tube in it anyways. You guys just assumed that.

GUYS - leave it! Dont do it!

mohthom · 20th October 2007, 11:50 PM

Didn't someone post the schematic for the U87? I think they DO know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennon

But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout?

L;

Hob: It's the tubes because they aren't cheap but it's the only way to get that sound.

Hob · 20th October 2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohthom

Didn't someone post the schematic for the U87? I think they DO know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennon

But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout?

L;

It's the tubes because they aren't cheap but it's the only way to get that sound.

Dude he could have made that himself. Anyways I wasn't really saying there was a tube in the U87. I was saying that a tube would make it better like a U47. People misqoted me.

guid0 · 20th October 2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hob

Dude he could have made that himself.

If could really make that kind of schematic myself, I'd be rich! Rich as nazis!

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20th October 2007, 09:59 PM	#1
Lennon Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 33	What divides good mics from bad mics? HI. I was thinking about what actually divides a good mic from a not so good one. I have just bought some different mics, Cad trions, GXL3000, Shinybox. Take the Shinybox that I have. (Lundahl Trafo). What would be the audible difference from a RCA ribbon mic? What hardware differences could there be? Also say the CAD gxl3000, what in the electronic circuit could be made better. If I look inside my old U87 circuit it seems to have more, bigger caps/resistors. Difficult to say, I know, but anyone? Best from Lennon.

20th October 2007, 10:56 PM	#3
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,672	Except for the good solid-state ones __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

20th October 2007, 11:17 PM	#10
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,672	PS Klaus Heyne over at PSW has a forum where you can probably get sensible answers. I'd like to know too __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

20th October 2007, 11:36 PM	#18
soundawg Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Surrey BC Posts: 430	Hey Blender - Here ya go... Neumann Microphone Finder Soundawg __________________ If it takes sixteen and a half pancakes to shingle a dog... ...how long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kik the seeds out of a dill pickle?

20th October 2007, 10:29 PM	#2
Hob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 64	It's because the good mics have a tube inside that actually warms the sound when it goes through there just like a guitar amp with tubes sounds better. It's not cheap though because the one that's really good is the U47 that costs $10,000 but that is that expensive sound.

20th October 2007, 11:05 PM	#5
Lennon Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 33	But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout? L;

20th October 2007, 11:38 PM	#20
The_Phoenix Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 475	IMAO, there isn't a good and bad mic. Microphones add character to a vocal or instrument. Someone could sound good on a $5,ooo mic and a $5,ooo preamp. Although, they may sound better on a $4oo mic and and a 5,ooo preamp. There are times I woud prefer a cheapo mic over an expensive mic. Maybe not for the main vocals, but for backround vocals or any other form of layering. It also depends on the song, combination of artists, instruments, etc. __________________ Resurrection! The Rose That Grew From Concrete by Tupac Shakur Did you hear about the rose that grew from a crack in the concrete? Proving nature's law is wrong it learned to walk with out having feet. Funny it seems, but by keeping it's dreams, it learned to breathe fresh air. Long live the rose that grew from concrete when no one else ever cared.

20th October 2007, 11:40 PM	#22
Hob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 64	OK!Maybe I was wrong but I don't think so. We will have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure but I do know that the U47 has tubes in it and it is in the same family so it only makes sense.

20th October 2007, 11:45 PM	#25
Hob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 64	I never actually said that the U87 had a tube in it anyways. You guys just assumed that.

20th October 2007, 11:50 PM	#28
mohthom Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 407	Didn't someone post the schematic for the U87? I think they DO know for sure. Quote: Originally Posted by Lennon But what qualities could be inside a Neumann U87 that justifies taking 2500$ compared to a ADK mic to 400$ Except the capsule or the transformer if any, what is the difference. Are there caps that are better, or resistors? Is it the layout? L; Hob: It's the tubes because they aren't cheap but it's the only way to get that sound. __________________