Labels asking for ITB???

[travisbrown]

I'd ask for the same thing if I were an exec of a company pumping out CHR hits.

I'm guessing they are protecting their investment in mixing. Costs for minute changes, radio mixes, remixes, especially when marketing decisions are made outside the mixing room, are minimized. It's a non-destructive, transportable capital-retentive process. Makes business sense.

It's just the music business not being all about the music, rather, being all about the music business. Depending on your perspective, it can be conflicting.

It's a business' mandate to find the balance between quality of product and cost efficiencies. Doesn't matter what the industry is, the mandate doesn't change.

I'm implying that ITB mixes result in inferior product. I've heard some excellent ITB mixes.

[Faderjockey]

I wouldn't doubt it..
It's ********... I mean if I go to an auto shop to get my car worked on I'm not going to tell the dude what tools he can and can not use..

I mix a lot ITB.. But I don't think some one else should be telling an engineer what to use... Your going to him because you like his sounds no matter what he uses.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Hob

Haha you guys are acting like old people who always complain about young people. Stop being so grouchy and get with the times. Digital sounds just as good as analog except it's way better, There was already another thread that proves it where nobody can even tell the difference. Analog is stupid and there is a reason why Pro Tools is the main thing in the industry. That's what profesionals use to fix everything up so a recording can actually be profesional quality or do you want things to sound old and not even crisp?

Um... flame on?



There are plenty of reasons to mix OTB. To make a blanket statement of "Digital sounds just as good as analog except it's way better" is not even addressing the argument. Plenty of pros have used analog gear for years to create many many many recordings that I would definitely say are better than anything I've (and you've) ever done ITB.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

I wouldn't doubt it..
It's ********... I mean if I go to an auto shop to get my car worked on I'm not going to tell the dude what tools he can and can not use..

I mix a lot ITB.. But I don't think some one else should be telling an engineer what to use... Your going to him because you like his sounds no matter what he uses.

You might if you saw your mechanic doing proprietary work that you might want to change later, and no-one else has those tools.

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But I'm guessing that these companies are probably less worried about your sound than just a sound that works. They might not be asking CLA, TLA or BC to do this. Maybe they are. I dont know. Like it or not, ITB is becoming more and more the norm. It's cheaper and like everything else in business, it goes through a cost-benefit analysis.

It's not uncommon for companies to ask for certain methods to be followed when contracting work, and I'm guessing this is creeping into the music business.

I subcontract graphic designers and programmers from time to time. By contractual requirement they have to use industry standard tools, non-destructable and reproducible processes. If they disappear after a job and I don't have access to the stuff they used to produce the work, and something has to be changed or repurposed, it's huge exposure for me. And things always have to be changed. When we put requests for proposals out, they sometimes stipulate that the respondent must work with certain tools and with certain methods.

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by Hob

Haha you guys are acting like old people who always complain about young people. Stop being so grouchy and get with the times. Digital sounds just as good as analog except it's way better, There was already another thread that proves it where nobody can even tell the difference. Analog is stupid and there is a reason why Pro Tools is the main thing in the industry. That's what profesionals use to fix everything up so a recording can actually be profesional quality or do you want things to sound old and not even crisp?

YEAH!!!! Shut up!!!!

And get of my lawn..... Damn kids....

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Hob

Haha you guys are acting like old people who always complain about young people. Stop being so grouchy and get with the times. Digital sounds just as good as analog except it's way better, There was already another thread that proves it where nobody can even tell the difference. Analog is stupid and there is a reason why Pro Tools is the main thing in the industry. That's what profesionals use to fix everything up so a recording can actually be profesional quality or do you want things to sound old and not even crisp?

Snort.

[lowfreq33]

Most of the time we print stems, so small changes can be done without repatching everything and recalling the console.

[SergioS]

Maybe I don't get quite term "ITB", but total recall can be achieved if you work with outboard with total recall option(xrack for instance), all outboard fx's are total recalled with midi anyway...I mean, you would give your best anyway to record tracks in the best possible way through best outboard you can get. My opinion is that these days it's all about good input stage. Also, I know a lot of producers who print some outboard processors and eqs just before mixing(High quality ADDA is a must of course). I don't mean to be labeled as "digital" or ITB freak, but there are some really good plugs and serious outboard eqs and dynamic processors with total recall, so...I know it makes my life much easier since I've got about 15-30 songs in production at all times. Since I'm working with 4-5 clients at the same time(as majority of GSlutz are, I think) it would be really hard to get everything done, cascading from project to project on daily basis without total recall. Clients that I work with want the exact same sound as they left two or three days before. Now, If I had to change console without total recall and get all the nuances of the project which was done for the client...you get the picture. I don't want to mention that sometimes a client who was totally satisfied a month ago with the "masterpiece" mix,comes with a enourmous frustration that he thinks that everything is great, every 100 channels are mixed great, but he can not sleep for days becouse now he thinks that hi hat is to loud. Now, with the total recall it is easilly done...That is my experince, anyway...it all depends I guess...Maybe that kind of client should pay for the whole mixing session again.

[SergioS]

Originally Posted by Hob

Haha you guys are acting like old people who always complain about young people. Stop being so grouchy and get with the times. Digital sounds just as good as analog except it's way better, There was already another thread that proves it where nobody can even tell the difference. Analog is stupid and there is a reason why Pro Tools is the main thing in the industry. That's what profesionals use to fix everything up so a recording can actually be profesional quality or do you want things to sound old and not even crisp?

Hi Blender, nice to have you around again...

[lowfreq33]

It's kind of like the thread about handing over PT sessions with the mixes. Do you want the A&R guy tweaking your mix?

[indie]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

YEAH!!!! Shut up!!!!

And get of my lawn..... Damn kids....

LOL!!

[rufus13]

I don't want to ever see the phrase "...conforms to industry standards...", I want specific requirements as to how to deal with tracks. "Industry Standard" was once a reel of 2" and a track sheet done by skilled apprentices, but now, who-the-f-knows?

Audio gets printed, but what about fades, plug-in effects, outboard effects? Do they want the cheapest-possible production or the best/most-careful/perfectly-documented that can be done? Does an iLock dongle with authorizations and disks of specific software need to accompany the project for future re-mixing? Why not archive the whole computer with PTHD hardware rev. xx?

Or, do they just want a disk-image of the ProTools (version what?) session with audio? You know, "track01", "track02", "track03", "track04", "track05", "track06", "track07", "track08", "track09", "track10", "track11", "trackxx", etc.

People have to know what they want (and put it in the damned contract), or they will f' you around and not pay while you re-do work a dozen times to meet the satisfaction of an undecided committee.

Cheers.

[lowfreq33]

It's settled, you officially know nothing about the music business.


*this made a lot more sense before Hob deleted his post.*

[Faderjockey]

Can Gearslutz block IP address?

[Tony Shepperd]

About a year ago, there was a rumor that Warner Bros. was not accepting any project that was not mixed ITB.
All of the projects had to be turned in complete and ready for archive in a Pro Tools sessions.

Then I heard this summer that 2 or 3 of the other major labels were moving in that direction.

[Hob]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

About a year ago, there was a rumor that Warner Bros. was not excepting any project that was not mixed ITB.
All of the projects had to be turned in complete and ready for archive in a Pro Tools sessions.

Then I heard this summer that 2 or 3 of the other major labels were moving in that direction.

I don't want to say I told you so but I told you so.

[picksail]

Didn't everyone see this coming?

I can't believe that anyone is actually surprised.

Yet, those who have gravitated to MITB are persecuted by their 'Luddite' peers.

Every label seems to expect an ITB mixes these days. That's why I'm still employable.

I'm not even inserting much outboard gear in the mixes anymore. I've been quite happy with the plug-in choices lately.

I'm not completely ITB, but anything analog that needs to be recalled is usually exclusive to the 2-buss.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by indie

A buddy of mine in Nashville says that 2 labels are asking mixers to mix ITB..for total recall reasons.
Has anyone else experienced this?

not shocking..sad ....... but not shocking

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by SergioS

Maybe I don't get quite term "ITB", but total recall can be achieved if you work with outboard with total recall option(xrack for instance), all outboard fx's are total recalled with midi anyway...e

just not an option when your working on thirty projects at once. You get an email asking for some changes by lunchtime. When your on another mix. Thank Fek for DAW in this instance.

[Tony Shepperd]

I actually got into a big fight 6 months ago with a well know person on this forum and he kept saying, "it's not like the record companies are requesting you to mix ITB"!

All I could do was laugh, because I had heard about Warner Bros. request last year, but of course I had no verification of the story.

In the past 2 few weeks, I have done at least 6 mixes for the majors, all of them expected the mixes in Pro Tools.

Lets face it... it is inevitable. This is going to happen.
This is the foreseeable future of our industry.

There are rumors about a really well known mixer (who has been very anti ITB) who is now considering mixing ITB, because they are keeping mixes up on the console for clients to long and it's also taking too long to do recalls.

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

There are rumors about a really well known mixer (who has been very anti ITB) who is now considering mixing ITB, because they are keeping mixes up on the console for clients to long and it's also taking too long to do recalls.

If it's who I think it is, I've been talking to him on and off about it for the last six months. The benefits are undeniable.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

In the past 2 few weeks, I have done at least 6 mixes for the majors, all of them expected the mixes in Pro Tools.

First off... awesome! That's really cool that you get that much major work. I'm jealous! haha

Also, did they request them in PT? Or was just an unstated expectation? Just curious, I'm hella behind PT, but I didn't think it was necessarily expected.

[superburtm]

congrats Tony I wish I could say the same here. I have done atleast 6 mixes for unknown indie bands in the last 2 weeks. Does that count for anything?

ITB is the way of the new world

[QUOTE=Tony Shepperd;1575911]
In the past 2 few weeks, I have done at least 6 mixes for the majors, all of them expected the mixes in Pro Tools.

QUOTE]

[AllAboutTone]

Strange thread, maybe it because i have no need to shop for a label period, hell im in enough debt, i don't need to owe a record company on top of that.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

Strange thread, maybe it because i have no need to shop for a label period, hell im in enough debt, i don't need to owe a record company on top of that.

huh? We are talking about working for a label..not shopping a product to one. I think anyhow

[ryst]

Originally Posted by indie

A buddy of mine in Nashville says that 2 labels are asking mixers to mix ITB..for total recall reasons.
Has anyone else experienced this?

This has been happening for a few years now. It's nothing new.

[swisha31]

i've never seen a problem with an entire project being done ITB but to expect that it be done that way is a bit much for me. Seems they are going that route because it's cheaper I guess but if all labels require projects to be done ITB then the already spiraling downfall will get even worse IMHO. The demand for this runs studios out of business eventually and then people will have to find guys with home setups that are great at what they do. The competition will be extremely fierce and there will be so many people fighting for jobs. There is no future in recording engineering at this rate.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Lets face it... it is inevitable. This is going to happen.
This is the foreseeable future of our industry.

i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you are correct, and i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if things end up completely different 2 years beyond the foreseeable future, after things have broken down so completely they get rebuilt in ways we can't imagine.

to that end, i tend to watch with vaguely amused disbelief as the industry makes one consistently misguided choice after another, chasing shorter-and-shorter term tails in lieu of sustainable tactics that benefit the art as much as the bottom line.

i'll add this latest trend to the list.

to be clear, i'm not making any statements about the merits of itb vs. other methods; whatever works for someone is exactly what s/he should be doing. what i'm saying is that the *requirement* that music be produced this way, when it clearly is not the preferred (or even practical) method for so many talented people who are damn good at what they do, seems like tying the hands that are most capable of helping you. unless i'm misreading the signs, the majors most definitely need help right about now.

does it not seem significant that there is currently a resurgence in boutique, spendy little consoles at a time when the majors are pushing in the other direction? does that give us a sense of how connected the labels are to the people who produce the music they market? does the word 'morale' register in their consciousness in any way whatsoever?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[joaquin]

It's all about the Music.
Have a nice day.