A Question for the Mix Engineers

[drewharris]

From a mix engineer's standpoint, how polished/compressed/eq'ed do you like projects to be when they come to you? I've been tracking and mixing all my own stuff for demos, and I'm getting to a point where I'm going to be looking to get some of it professionally mixed and mastered, and I'm a little lost as to how much polish I should put into the tracking stage before it's sent off, most specifically on compression. On one hand I know I should leave as much room for the mix engineer as possible, but on the other hand I'm almost embarrassed to send something that sounds bad because the dynamics are all over the place just to let the engineer fix it in the mix. Can someone point me in the right direction or give me some general rules of thumb for how much of that I should be doing in the tracking stage, and what is the preference among mix engineers?

thanks,
-drew

[ron florentine]

whats important to me is not so much compression level but that you do not print to hot.......that leaves me no room to work with.....a bit of vox and bass compression is fine.....but gtr and drums i perfer no compression so I can do my thing with some hi end comps that most lower end studios dont have access to (hardware)........also watch distortion from overloading mics and mic preamps (unless its intentional) and from printing to hot....once that distortion is there its fairly hard to get rid or mask it.........other than that good mic plasement and a touch of EQ is OK just dont go overboard...remember most people hopefully you hire to mix for you will have much better comps /levelers and EQ and hopefully a great console than you do with much more experience on how to get the most of them.


Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

[picksail]

From my perspective (and this isn't directed at you per se) is that if you don't know how to operate a compressor than leave it alone.

Gain staging is enough of an undertaking.

If it's an "FX" related sound that is integral to the part then print it and include it as such.
Otherwise, raw tracks will completely suffice.

Also, don't look at the "fix-it-in-the-mix" aphorism as a Band-Aid™. It's not entirely a bad thing.
The mixer is assembling your song from an artistic perspective and fully understands 'what is and what is not'.
You have no reason to feel self-conscious. It's all part of a chain of events that eventually leads to a result.

Contrary to popular belief mixing is an art.

[tommyd123]

Originally Posted by drewharris

From a mix engineer's standpoint, how polished/compressed/eq'ed do you like projects to be when they come to you? I've been tracking and mixing all my own stuff for demos, and I'm getting to a point where I'm going to be looking to get some of it professionally mixed and mastered, and I'm a little lost as to how much polish I should put into the tracking stage before it's sent off, most specifically on compression. On one hand I know I should leave as much room for the mix engineer as possible, but on the other hand I'm almost embarrassed to send something that sounds bad because the dynamics are all over the place just to let the engineer fix it in the mix. Can someone point me in the right direction or give me some general rules of thumb for how much of that I should be doing in the tracking stage, and what is the preference among mix engineers?

thanks,
-drew

For me, I would like to get all raw tracks. Meaning no printed processing. Unless it's a guitar take that is printed with a specific sound in mind or even some sort of vocal effect. If the dynamics are too out of whack it may be a performance issue with inconsistent playing or singing. Try to get the performance as smooth as possible. However, if something is greatly varied dynamically within a take it can be dealt with in a variety of different ways.
The goal should be to capture the best sound and performance possible to start with making the mix that much easier.

[plexisys]

My choice is to get it as clean as I can with no dynamics or effects. Over the last several years I've asked clients to provide me with a mix tape so I get an indication of what they are looking for. With a mix tape as a reference and clean tracks to work with it makes everyones life easier.

I agree 100% with ron's comment of "whats important to me is not so much compression level but that you do not print to hot.......that leaves me no room to work with". It's the biggest problem I usually see/hear.

[Sigma]

flat

[The Listener]

I prefer raw tracks, but let's define raw... It means apply or separately include all the creative FX that are part of your sound, if you record through compressor but don't kill all the dynamics it is ok - most of the vocals are recorded with compression - but don't overdo...
Also some (analog) EQ if needed - so already the recording sounds fine enough.
Anything prior to recording it to tape/HD is ok when it is the sound you want to be recorded - but don't manipulate the tracks afterwards - that's mixing..
I also prefer the edited tracks - so I get the complete song as it should be defined by the producer and the band, mixing should only enhance that and bring it all together in a musical and pleasing way...

BTW - don't be embarrased by the dynamics being all over the place - that is cool. Actually I love the sound of the good balanced raw tracks... mixing is often a compromise, not to speak of mastering...
It was painfully obvious in one thread that followed the complete process of recording to mixing
- how beautiful did the raw tracks sound - and somehow that quality got lost in the mix...

[Protools Guy]

I love it when I get tracks that I can just push up and the sound is there.

That being said, it happens on a very rare basis.

It seems that I put out more fires than I stoke.

If you know what you're doing, it's great to have the tracks compressed.

When in doubt, leave it alone, or at the very least, compress lightly.

[Prefontaine]

Well, I personally don't mind if things are printed...and done well. Unfortunately, compression and EQ are rarely done well, in which case I wish they had never bothered.

Also, last month I mixed an album and I battled everything on it. The tracks were recorded way too low, there was way too much blead, the sounds were terrible, and many of the parts were out of tune. At that point I didn't really care if the tracking engineer took EQ or compression to tape because so many other things were messed up. I think this can ultimately teach all of us a lesson of seeing the bigger picture because no amount of EQ or compression would have fixed all of the other problems.

[The Byre]

One thing to remem,ber is that mixing and editing are two different things.

So if you want the mix man to edit as well, you should make that clear from the outset and budget accordingly - or, of course, make sure that youm have completed all the editing beforehand.

[chris carter]

I don't mind anything printed that is done well. But....

As for compression: my preference is to have some light tracking compression on vocals. I just mixed an r&b tune and had about 40+ tracks of just vocals. No compression during tracking. It was a pain running around putting compressors on EVERY SINGLE track... and a waste of DSP (not that I've ever run out... but it could happen!). For a typical rock song with only a few tracks of vocals it doesn't bother me as much. Other than that, I prefer no compression on anything. Maybe electric bass.

I prefer no effects. If an effect is really that important to have printed, then I like a clean and a processed track. That way I can match the clean one ot the processed one if I want to tweak it (usually). Or if it's a return type of effect, and it's really that important (like some esoteric or unique processor), then put it on another track. The one exception would be guitar pedals because I consider those to be an actual part of the instrument. I think that's my general rule of thumb: if the effect is actually a part of the instruments sound, then go ahead and print it.

The thing I HATE, and has been mentioned by others, is levels that are too hot. I haven't really run across this in rock. But with the r&b and hip-hop stuff it's a horrible problem. Clipping even. Drives me nuts.

EDIT: double "yes" on what The Byre said. If I'm going to get something that needs a lot of editing, then I'd better know up front. I generally consider the editing stuff to be stuff that should be done before it goes to the mix engineer.

[samwinston123]

Mostly you should be concerned with avoiding clipping and unintended distortion, because those are very hard to deal with.

The only thing I ever use compression on when tracking is vocals. My method is fast attack, short release, about a 6:1 ratio, and only compressing by about 3-4 dB, depending on the dynamics of the singer. The fast settings and high ratio insure sure that you're only hitting the peaks, and you're not going to affect the sound very much.

I mixed a song last weekend that was tracked by some silly hippies, and just about everything was clipped. Drums, bass, vocals, etc. It was a pain in the ass. Also the original tracks had been cut up and looped for the song...without any fades...GRR! I just had to batch fade most of the tracks and tweak anything that I actually heard.

[sethbrand_12]

I don't like working with tracks that other people have put their touch on, well, most of the time this is the case. I would rather have a raw track that I can play with. You can't really undo compression or major eq reparing on something that already has it done. If it was recorded well, then there may not be much need for all sorts of processing. Either way, raw tracks are what I like to hear when starting a mix.

[analog modeling]

well, one thing i hate is when i get bad edited material, i hate it when i have to reedit it myself, generally i like light compression on voice and bass done at recording, regarding eq i dont have a problem with it while its still subtle and uncolored. i preffer having the clean and fx or distorted guitar separated, sometimes they know how they want it to sound (so that s a good starting point) but they dont know how to set it (to sit in a mix).

[Musiclab]

I'm with Pro Tools guy on this. If you think you know what doing I don't mind the compression, which unless you're going for something in particular should be on the light side anyway. I prefer NO compression at all on the drums. vocals, guitars and bass with light compression. But if you're going for something go for it, if you're not sure be gentle . As far as eq most of the time people make problems with eq. I'd prefer you didnt.

[dave-G]

I'm gathering that we're talking about ProTools sessions as the format you're delivering to a mixer, right?

I don't expect that most people are precisely following the P&E wing guidelines, but poor session-prep, unlabeled tracks, disorganized track layouts, sloppy edits and mute automation (instead of muted regions -- a peeve of mine) are FAR more annoying, and far more time consuming to deal with than removing or replacing plugin compression from the rough.

Most of you know this stuff.

The basic gist to the original poster's point is that if I'm mixing for you, the goal is always to bring my creative skill and experience to the task of translating your musical ideas, making your recording into a great-sounding record. So, when your compression-sound is great, and considered essential to the production-aesthetic of the song, I want it.. When it's just some plugin you halfway like that communicates some concept of what you're after, that helps too! If you've got great outboard to track through, and are loving the sounds going in -- DO IT. Mixing is not made superfluous by processing in earlier stages.

It's also nearly a non-issue when it's via a bypassable plugin, or has the raw original on a playlist underneath.

All told, a little advance communication with the mixer you're collaborating with, and you can figure this out pretty easily and specifically.

-dave

[picksail]

Originally Posted by dave-G

Mixing is not made superfluous by processing in earlier stages.

Oh thank god someone said it!!!!

Too many expect instant gratification.

[3rd world order]

print everything.. get the mix as close to the vision as possible... but also include dry tracks if you're unsure about something. its simple enough to burn DVD-Rs so space is not an issue.

also include a rough 2-track mix so we have some idea what you had in mind...

the most annoying things are badly consolidated tracks with bad regions or tracks which do not start at 0:00 so they can be mixed in any possible app.

but if an effect is essential to the mood of the song by all means include it. if you're unsure if it's good enough for a final then also include a dry track. it's easy enough to keep a few different versions as playlists in protools.. more ppl should use this function.