Advise on a mic & a mic preamp for hiphop vocals, about 2K$ each

[Blinddot]

Hi people!, this is my 1st thread in this forum.

I know it´s a little rude o my first post, but I´d like you guys to give me some advise on a vocal mic, a vocal mic preamp and a pair of monitors for a small studio, in which I want to record hip-hop vocals mainly. It willl have a not too small iso booth and a medium/small sized control room with just a pair of nearfield monitors. I also want to use it for modest mixing and some instrument recording so I wouldn´t mind 2 mic preamps if still fits the vocal bill and doesn´t go much further than 2K$ (same money for the mic), and if it comes with a nice EQ or compressor for around that money would be a nice extra too.



This are some studio monitors that I quite like:

Hafler TRM8.1
Dynaudio BM6A
Mackie HR824

Something you think similar worth trying?



This is the rest of the estudio:

Benchmark DAC1
Echo MIA midi audio interface (upgrading to some better external stereo ADC in the future)
Mackie Control Universal
Universal Audio UAD-1
TC electronics Powercore
Steinberg Nuendo on a PC

It´d be great to hear what you think people.

Thank you!

[brownmouse]

man, there are a plethora of options out there.... i would consider
getting a couple of flavors in mics.. maybe something like...
shure sm-7 ($300ish)
soundelux u-195 ($1150)

mic preamp= langevin dvc....$1600 (2 pres, 2 limiters)
then, with the left over dough, maybe get a lucid ad9624 for $850.
or if you don't wanna get converters now you can get the pendulum quartet ($2650) instead of the dvc.
or not....
as far as monitors go... maybe give the truth audio ta-1p's a listen (not the behringers!)
good luck,
joshua

[Scinx]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...=hiphop+vocals

The search function is useful.

[NathanEldred]

Are hip hop vocals somehow distinctive from the rest of the usages and examples of the human voice? Seriously.

[sdelsolray]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
Are hip hop vocals somehow distinctive from the rest of the usages and examples of the human voice? Seriously.

I believe it is. First, much of rap and hip hop vocals are very rhythymic in nature with a fair amount of transients. Second, there's not alot of melodic content, and if there is the range is usually limited to less than an octave. Third, dynamic changes are more frequent, intense and abrupt. Fourth, diction often tends to be slurred.

Given these differences, it's no surprise that REs doing rap and hip hop tend to prefer fast and somewhat uncolored pres and accurate mics.

Nat King Cole or Frank Sinatra through a RCA 44 and vintage tube pre is a whole different thing.

Not better, or worse, just different.

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by sdelsolray

Given these differences, it's no surprise that REs doing rap and hip hop tend to prefer fast and somewhat uncolored pres and accurate mics.

I've gotten great results with a U47 through a Neve preamp, slow and colored. I've gotten great results with a R84 ribbon through a Pendulum which sounds quite natural. A voice is a voice. Diction comes from the voice, not the genre IMO. I agree that the compressor needs to be relatively fast, but that goes for me with blues, rock, and bluegrass too (in addition to hip hop).

[Blinddot]

Many thaks for the answers

regarding my ADC.. let´s just spend the 4/5K$ on mic+mic pre, the Echo MIA midi is fairly decent for the time being (it wont take too loong to get some good stereo ADC)

regarding the diferences between hip hop vocals and any other music style vocals, let´s just hear what you have to say about that (I wouldnt be asking if I knew the answer for that, would I?)

Thanks for the Hip Hop vocal chain link!! I´m already using the search feature, anyway I encourage you all to keep on posting your ideas.

thanks again.

[tee boy]

I think Avalon 737 + U87 would be a good combo. I love both units personally, but i also hear LOADS of hiphop guys singing their praise.

[MIKEHARRIS]

U87/Avalon 737 seems to be a regular solution....BTW...Hafler has closed out all their monitors...and is no longer making TRM8's...Mackie should do the same with the HR824...and do us all a favor..leaving the BM6A...or BM15a if you can swing it

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by tee boy
I think Avalon 737 + U87 would be a good combo. I love both units personally, but i also hear LOADS of hiphop guys singing their praise.

That's the cliche setup. Seems like these guys haven't heard anything else, or it's just sheep factor. You should see the look on these guys faces, when it's not a U87 and 737. "Howd you get that sound?"

[djui5]

the u87 737 thing is getting tiring. They do have a "magic" together but there's so many other way's.....

U195 $1000
T.H.E. KR-25A 1" $550
AT 4060 $1000
Blue Blueberry $1000


UA 2-612 $1900
EW 1022 $1700
ISA 428 $1700
Langevin Dual vocal combo $1800
Toft ACT-2 $1000
API 212's $2000 or so...depending on how many you buy.

[CrazyBeast]

I've had good luck with a Neumann KSM 105 on hip hop vox. You can use it as a hand held and that can sometimes help with the performance.

For some reason, I haven't liked it that much on female hip-hop vox, but I used it once with Mimi from the band Low and it worked very well for her.

It's relatively inexpensive too.

[tee boy]

I know he's not exactly a hiphop artist, but all Craig David's vocals on this first album were record using an NT1 into a Makie. I guess it just goes to show that its the vocalist who has the final say on 'the sound', not the chain. Then again, I doubt fiddy cent would be to pleased if presented with such a chain. I suppose its a case of compromising between whats necessary and what the artist expects. Iv heard its not uncommon for engineers to tell an artist he's recording through one lot of gear, but infact use quite a different setup. I doubt its the ethical approach to secretly switch pre's or whatever, but if it gets the job done and keeps people happy then **** it.

[1nation]

I love my Lawson L47- Great River Mp2nv combo for hip hop vox... You can tune this combo to fit pretty much any singer or rapper.

Check it out

Lawson MP 2NV

P.S. I'm not crazy about 87's or 737's

[jlotto]

Originally posted by Blinddot
Hi people!, this is my 1st thread in this forum.

I know it´s a little rude o my first post, but I´d like you guys to give me some advise on a vocal mic, a vocal mic preamp and a pair of monitors for a small studio, in which I want to record hip-hop vocals mainly.

If u want the sound that u hear on the radio and other hip hop songs use Neumann U87/Avalon 737. There is also the Sony C800/Avalon 737 setup but the sony mic is like $5500. Also have used Sony or U87 mic w/ Focusrite ISA 430mkII which I found nicer for r&b vocals. U could also do the U87/Sony Mic into Brent Avrill Neve pre-amp, into a distressor or Trackker or dbx 160. U will always have folks here that explore and do things just not to be sheep which is cool. That keeps the world spinning. But u have limited funds so make the safe choices right now.

Also monitors r real subjective too. U won't find anyone on this board who likes Yamaha NS10's but you will see them in every major commercial recording facility in the country. For hip hop, Mackie's will give u what u want and they do translate well to other systems. Most of the producers I know, including myself, have a pair at home.

[cdog]

I'm just baffled... you have a Benchmark DAC1 yet your main A/D is an Echo Mia? My friend you have indeed placed the cart before the horse!

I think you're seriously underestimating how important the A/D converter is in getting a good vocal sound... any sound really... it doesn't help if you spend $4K on nice mics and pres when your sampling them with an Echo soundcard. That will be your main limiting factor.

If your studio is going to be built around tracking vox, and you already have a DAC1, I would go with an all in one vocal box that has good conversion in it... the Focusrite ISA 430 MKII or Apogee Trak2 both come to mind.

Mics are even more subjective and individual than pres... so start testing a lot of them.

[catfish11]

i agree w/ cdog
an echo mia won't cut it
you will be putting all that quality signal through a cardboard box
thus it will sound like an expensive cardboard box

[xl-sander]

if i were you id get me a hedd or something similir in quality and
neumann u 87 and a innertube u87 mod, and a good class a pre (brant averill, dan alexander) just my 2 cents...

[Blinddot]

Originally posted by cdog
I'm just baffled... you have a Benchmark DAC1 yet your main A/D is an Echo Mia? My friend you have indeed placed the cart before the horse!

I think you're seriously underestimating how important the A/D converter is in getting a good vocal sound... any sound really... it doesn't help if you spend $4K on nice mics and pres when your sampling them with an Echo soundcard. That will be your main limiting factor.

If your studio is going to be built around tracking vox, and you already have a DAC1, I would go with an all in one vocal box that has good conversion in it... the Focusrite ISA 430 MKII or Apogee Trak2 both come to mind.

Mics are even more subjective and individual than pres... so start testing a lot of them.

I know already what your telling me dude, anywat I think DA es more important than AD cos if you can´t hear waht you´re doing, how do you know what you´re doing? in fact I have my eyes placed on a 2nd hand stereo AD Apogee Rosseta 44.1/48, but that´s different budget, and unfortunatly has to take a little longer. I thoght about Apogee cos I´d like a bit of colour on the AD.

Thanks for all the suggestions, keep em comming please.

I havent heard the Quested VS2101 and the KRKs V8, but they were recommended to me, what do you think about those?

thanks again.

[Waylon]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
Are hip hop vocals somehow distinctive from the rest of the usages and examples of the human voice? Seriously.

Nathan, thanks for providing me with arguably the funniest post I have ever read on gearslutz.... I appreciate that you would make such a statement for my own amusement...









I mean, you are kidding right? Sorry to ask such an obivios question, but I just want to make sure no one misinterpets your position on this.....

[djui5]

Originally posted by Blinddot
I know already what your telling me dude, anywat I think DA es more important than AD cos if you can´t hear waht you´re doing, how do you know what you´re doing?

That's backwards. You'd rather listen to what you recorded with a better monitoring system than get a better recording?

I'd rather get it right on the way in.....the whole world isn't listening to your speakers are they?

[Blinddot]

Originally posted by djui5
That's backwards. You'd rather listen to what you recorded with a better monitoring system than get a better recording?

Yes I do prefer it.

As I told you already I´ll be buying good ADC soon, but if you ask me, the answer is: monitoring system (DAC, monitor amp, monitors, monitor placement and acoustics) is the most important thing in a recording studio for me. I just don´t like doing anything on "blind mode".

If I have to set an order in which I buy the gear, I will always start with monitoring (IMO)

regards

[djui5]

I respect your opinion. Whatever works for you is what you should do!

[uk03878]

I am just a lurker - but one of the UK on line shops is offering a bit of a deal at the moment
Focusrite 428 + Blue Kiwi for GBP2000 (that includes UK taxes @17.5%)
Might not be what you are after - but that is one hell of a price (and no I am not a salesman)

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by Waylon
Nathan, thanks for providing me with arguably the funniest post I have ever read on gearslutz.... I appreciate that you would make such a statement for my own amusement...

I mean, you are kidding right? Sorry to ask such an obivios question, but I just want to make sure no one misinterpets your position on this.....

I'm being sarcastic. I'm really curious as to why people ask "which vocal chain for hip hop" when the same rules apply to anything else IMNSHO. I have a few key 'reach for' pieces (mics/preamp/comp) and they all work equally well on a crooner, a screamer, or a rapper....it's all dependent on the type of human voice, nothing more, and nothing less.

[musicfool100]

Originally posted by Blinddot
Hi people!, this is my 1st thread in this forum.

I know it´s a little rude o my first post, but I´d like you guys to give me some advise on a vocal mic, a vocal mic preamp and a pair of monitors for a small studio, in which I want to record hip-hop vocals mainly.

AKG Solidtube
Avalon 737

Hip hop sound

[entropy]

AKG Solidtube
Avalon 737

Hip hop sound

It's Charles again, isn't it? I had the pleasure of responding to one of your excellent posts yesterday. The only thing hip hop about a Solid Tube is that it makes a good crack pipe with a few modifications. Have you listened to the Solid Tube? I wouldn't recommend this mic to ANYONE, regardless of their budget or the price of that mic.

Much has been said (and rapped) on this particular post. Blinddot, do what works for you dude. Have a listen to a few things. Balance your budget on pre and mic but (as cdog pointed out) if you can get something with a half decent AD, it'll be a big step in itself. Forget the snobery posted above, the 87 does work well, as does both the ISA430 and the 737.

It ain't a bad chain to start with.

[entropy]

oh, and xl-sander. Love your Dr Dre imitation photo.... you just gotta get the SSL and you're there.

[danalexander]

hi - i think vocals is vocals is vocals....a great signal path for rock is the same for hip hop,funk or classical guitar for that matter....it all depends on how good the damned singer is.....aretha thru an sm57 is gonna sound just fine....BUT, i like neve pre amps and api preamps and the avalon stuff doesnt hold a candle to it...but i like the knobs....as far
as a mic is concerned, the best DEAL on a great mic is an akg c12a nuvistor tube. that's an old tube precursor of the 414..usually they are about 2000. and kill almost any other mic on any signal source.....best snare mic ever made.....make sure it has the original capsule....dan alexander

[Teacher]

very informative thread should be upped for new users that record rap...