Looking for Opinions about poking a somewhat dead horse....

[tuRnitUpsuM]

* firstly... wasn't sure if this thread belongs here or music computers ... figured here because is a discussion ( yes computers are involved) but more the ideology. Please move if i am wrong or opinion differs.

* secondly... before the flood of slutters mentioning DAWs capabilities etc etc etc... i am well aware .... of many many DAW platforms... save the super high-end systems *although im aware of their concepts).


my reasoning for bringing this topic up again : you ask?



well.....here goes....

the more and more i dive deeper and deeper into the PC DAW ... and i mean as deep as linux running ardour (putting first because is quite the time-investing venture when learning setting-up) , XP running Sam 9 ,reaper, Cubase sx 3.1 , Adobe ...etc. (used or am using currently/past).

the more and more im lured into the VS-2480dvd and the Akai theory....of a really great all-in-one... but not all-in-one in the tradition sense of expandability. ( kinda understand what i allude too? ). hope so.

for a breathers sake..... can u picture say Digis new C24 mixed with a Roland VS-2480 but with a vastly superior ability to communicate with the "outside world" (no rbus....but rather ethernet). So thats 24 flying faders ( 100 mm) digital control of pre-amps (say of a quality high enough to please even the most sluttiest in us all. ( high voltage rails ...ala ATI 8mx2 type pres for standard fair) . The expandability comes into play with digital connections galore.... bring in ur own flavours and ADs DAs if so desired.... whenever u wish. Now couple that with todays HDDs (32 MB buffers 7200-10000rpm very very large capacity....or with options for SSDs in the future ( this is the real eye opener for me anyhow...solid state drive all-in-one...hellz yeah).

come on! ya gotta admit it is starting to sound alil inticing???

use the expansion card idea like roland had...for even more plug-in companys to get on board.... (imagine this aspect of this platform idea to blow up like the 500 series.... with companies jumping up and down to make new plugs for the new platform.... speaking of which (500 racks) could be integrated through the units built in ad/da or external.

external monitor options (matrox driven...possibly their fanless card designs...or new one for the platform.


whatcha all think ?

throw away all the ideas of previous attempts in all-in-ones..... and think reall really great planning and execution.....

cheers for your eyes for alil while... is a long post..


p.s priced in the 5-10k region (maybe a higher end version for the big boys and girls whom need to use that budget.... (i.e DSD ) .... radar converters :P built-in ) is fair no? for an entire studio sans monitors/speakers/and all the other necessary goodies to make a studio run.

why couldnt this work out for all involved???? original manu....3rd party manus...end users.... etc.

[tINY]

All you need is a solid state recorder attached to a Yamaha DM2000.....




-tINY

[tuRnitUpsuM]

tINY

All you need is a solid state recorder attached to a Yamaha DM2000.....

if only things were as simple... but i can see ur point here.... and in all fairness , this would be a formitable set-up indeed.

But starting from zero.... one could implyment newer tech in software to create a very very stable foundation.... ie Unix or linus OS....getting away from Win and OSX. something to add great command of networking ability without the "red-tape" hassling of the usual propietary software channels.

think linux+beryl desktop interaction with a recording software.... have u seen this?? a cube environment desktop to switch from a recording template to mixing template to routing template etc........

i'm just thinking something to break new ground price performance wise... for i have never seen a dm-2000 any where near 10k even heavily used never mind a warranty... 02r96v2 maybe.

Also in fairness.... as much as i applaud Yamaha in their undertakings for their digital mixers.... i dont think they shared the same idea Roland had with their VS series.... at least not as an all-in-one. sure one could fuse their DM series or O series with an equally formitable DAW and come close to what i have in mind... but the $ investment the end-user would have to make in order to achieve what this "new" all-in-one could attain would be as much as investing in a high-end system such as HD or Pyramix or etc.

Im thinking in the realms of a very very respectable offering that could push the project studio into a league where $ invested wouldnt be what seperated the big boys from the project studio...and could possibly push the quality of recorded music closer to meeting the ideals of the artist and their visions on a somewhat budget. ( i realise the ramifications of what i am saying). and i do realise u cant have a "Blackbird or Abbey Road " in a box.

but why not ???? and i mean that seriously. isnt the premise of the music industry > ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE !

the technology for such a system is available NOW!!! great great pre-amps can be made affordably.... and i mean high-quality. not IC in a daw controller....i mean real amps. conversion . digi-control of dynamics and EQ (of which could be added through 3rd party involvement for user customization and taste). ala the Massenburg plugs via VS series... or the UA plugs (also VS series) .

see where i am heading..... ?? an abundance of options without the pleading to accountants .

if someone out there is a good photoshop mucker-upper...i would love to see a mock up of a C24(minus the knobs ) with the Roland transport and the Neve genesys meter bridge (kinda like em). or something along those lines. maybe the mackie meters on the HDR series.

cheers

[tuRnitUpsuM]

a possible desktop config for the new "all-in-one" !!!

imagine only audio apps utilising this "cube"........ from the example i posted previous. Record template....Mix template......Routing template...etc.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

hmmmm....



try this... > YouTube - WINDOWS VISTA AERO VS LINUX UBUNTU BERYL

[tuRnitUpsuM]

hmmmm


i guess no one really has a want or need for an updated/much improved 2480.


no one can picture themselves at the throttles of an all in one with 24 faders (100mm) , dynamic+Eq+fader automation, expansion efx much like the vs8f-3 in the Roland. Add solid state storage (128gigs) , dvd drive (possibly Blu-ray, external support for two-three monitors, etc.

Hell leave out the pre-amps and ad/da and give it a plethora of digital ins as well as some quality balanced ins.

What say you good people of Gearslutz???


cheers

[tINY]

You gonna build it?



-tINY

[JP11]

I think it's possibly a good idea. Removing computers from the equation is probably the right move as computers may well be fully responsible for ruining the whole music deal.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

Hey Fellas

spent the weekend away from technology, so i apologise for the delayed reply.


tINY

You gonna build it?

believe me tINY if i had the means ... i absolutely would... unfortunately something like this would require a much bigger (NAME) buyer to sway suppliers enough to have an end product within a working engineers/musicians financial grasp. but for a (name) manu ... a product like this makes sense again. a HDD workstation with the prices of of Hard Drives these days.... something to ponder about.


JP11

I think it's possibly a good idea. Removing computers from the equation is probably the right move as computers may well be fully responsible for ruining the whole music deal.

its not so much about removing the computer aspect.... for the workstation/recorder etc would be considered a "specialised" computer. but IMHO thats one of the attractions.

cheers

[tuRnitUpsuM]

sorry but i gotta bump this thread at least once....


i have a feeling most whom read really aren't grasping my orignal concept.... and therefore haven't given an opinion because of that.

picture a device... similar to a vs-2480 but only in conceptual ideology. now picture this device having pre-amplifers on par with a very decent sounding high-gain high-voltage circuitry. the power supply being a hybrid of two supplys in one. one feeding the pre-amps the other everything thing else. Now add the ability to record straight to a modern high-cache high-capacity HDD or SSD. with all the necessary controls for punch-in/punch-out, arm ,playback etc (advanced transport controls).

--100mm flying faders (24)
--parameters and controls for EQ and Dynamics (automatable) (3rd party plugs) saving even more money to Manu
--level meters ( switchable between peak and RMS, level , dynamic compression etc)
--an OS based upon Unix/Linux-which would save the Manu a ton in licensing alone and could be put towards programming and/or exploring areas of application management and networking ability beyond standard OS fair (ie Win/OSX) (ethersound support an optional possiblility)
--a fanless matrox video card (eliminating the need for a built-in screen there-by saving money) (can always add one or more external LCDs (which are now reasonably priced).
--high-capacity HDD/SSD (higher end - two or more in raid 0,1,0+1,JBOD)
--Efx expansion (ala roland VS type plugs...not necessarily the same ones...just along those lines)
--AD/DA ( if neve can offer their ad/da conversion that offers that kind of quality and the ability for DSD at that price...no reason this area cant be of high-quality and low price)


I know this all sounds like wishful thinking and you know something 5 years ago it would have been.... but in almost '08.... is very do-able. and would give the average home/project studio less headache and incredible results straight out-of-the-box , with immense room for expandability through 3rd party involvement and networking solutions (ie storage , plugs, whatever have you).

could become a Pandoras box that people would have no qualms about opening/using/enjoying.

whatcha think now???

cheers

[skygod]

Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM

* firstly... wasn't sure if this thread belongs here or music computers ... figured here because is a discussion ( yes computers are involved) but more the ideology. Please move if i am wrong or opinion differs.

* secondly... before the flood of slutters mentioning DAWs capabilities etc etc etc... i am well aware .... of many many DAW platforms... save the super high-end systems *although im aware of their concepts).


my reasoning for bringing this topic up again : you ask?



well.....here goes....

the more and more i dive deeper and deeper into the PC DAW ... and i mean as deep as linux running ardour (putting first because is quite the time-investing venture when learning setting-up) , XP running Sam 9 ,reaper, Cubase sx 3.1 , Adobe ...etc. (used or am using currently/past).

the more and more im lured into the VS-2480dvd and the Akai theory....of a really great all-in-one... but not all-in-one in the tradition sense of expandability. ( kinda understand what i allude too? ). hope so.

for a breathers sake..... can u picture say Digis new C24 mixed with a Roland VS-2480 but with a vastly superior ability to communicate with the "outside world" (no rbus....but rather ethernet). So thats 24 flying faders ( 100 mm) digital control of pre-amps (say of a quality high enough to please even the most sluttiest in us all. ( high voltage rails ...ala ATI 8mx2 type pres for standard fair) . The expandability comes into play with digital connections galore.... bring in ur own flavours and ADs DAs if so desired.... whenever u wish. Now couple that with todays HDDs (32 MB buffers 7200-10000rpm very very large capacity....or with options for SSDs in the future ( this is the real eye opener for me anyhow...solid state drive all-in-one...hellz yeah).

come on! ya gotta admit it is starting to sound alil inticing???

use the expansion card idea like roland had...for even more plug-in companys to get on board.... (imagine this aspect of this platform idea to blow up like the 500 series.... with companies jumping up and down to make new plugs for the new platform.... speaking of which (500 racks) could be integrated through the units built in ad/da or external.

external monitor options (matrox driven...possibly their fanless card designs...or new one for the platform.


whatcha all think ?

throw away all the ideas of previous attempts in all-in-ones..... and think reall really great planning and execution.....

cheers for your eyes for alil while... is a long post..


p.s priced in the 5-10k region (maybe a higher end version for the big boys and girls whom need to use that budget.... (i.e DSD ) .... radar converters :P built-in ) is fair no? for an entire studio sans monitors/speakers/and all the other necessary goodies to make a studio run.

why couldnt this work out for all involved???? original manu....3rd party manus...end users.... etc.

Jay ... Baby ... Dude-

I think it's a great plan linking the two. Both have a steep learning curve, but both will produce very rewarding outcomes without having to spend any additonal monies on external/outboard ANYTHING other than a great mic collection.
You kidding me? What Roland has done with the 2480DVD/VS8F-3 is stunning! Four boards with up to two MFG plugs running per board, and you've got the best from UA, TC, Soundtoys, McDSP, Massenburg, IK, Cakewalk, Antares, etc. The problems folks have had in the past have been porting the wav files to other platforms becuse of lack of Firewire and slow USB 2 etc. There's even workarounds for these. No need to port to another platform. You can do it all here fine and dandy.

Both the the Roland and the AKAI DPS24 mkii bring a lot to the table. And that is an understament in itself. Add a good pair of ADAM 7s and a nice sub, and augment additional speakers for surround with SKY 2.1s. And then fuggedaboudit!
Personally, I would link a second fully loaded 2480DVD and forget about the DPS.

Add a couple of smaller analog sub mixers for tracking and playback if needed for MIDI heavy studios, or bands with a lot of mics, and you have the allen & heath and soundcraft brit PEQ family of mixers to choose from -- the WZ3 16:2 comes to mind as well as the Spirit 16x2 line. Need additional digital channels: add another BR1600CD and you clearly have a monster muvafukka linked series of very clever workstations and then your skill and imagination is the limit.

You could build a world class tracking, mixing, mastering studio in a bedroom or two on a leg folding 3' x 8 'picnic table or two. You kidding me? Don't let any slutz talk you out of this. It is another path to the goal of making quality music w/o the overhead & expense of what all the rest of the Jonses are doing with a G5 fully loaded w 16 MB RAM and 4 UAD cards one external + 3 internal, + all the software expense, plus all the preamp expense or all the analog outboard to do it OTB .... it costs mega $$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$

Roland is an amazing company and I use a LOT of their products including the GI-20 MIDI converter and the GT8 studio and live. I have 3 x 5080s fully loaded as well among many other devices I use in my home studio.

You're thinking out of the box. Pat yourself on the back. That's the biggest hurdle -- getting out of the API-NEVE-PROTOOLS-CUBASE-NUENDO-WHATEVER ELSE rut out there. Now put the architechture on paper, and figure out how you will link everything from tracking, thru mixing, thru mastering to the final burn. Good luck dude -

That's my 2 cents -

~skygod~

[crufty]

My recommendation would be to define the market first, the idea second...

Also consider the expense of plugin support / manufacture vs number of potential customers.

Good luck!

[tuRnitUpsuM]

first thing first...


skygod


.. you know , everything you have described is great... and would work... linking the two. but for how long??? both products have already if not are very very close to the end of their lifetimes. meaning now unsupported...slow technology...and the data transfering problems both hardware-wise as well as software-wise.

is kinda the whole point to the thread....the realisation that these sorts of things still have a place in the music industry yet.... there aren't any '08 equilvalents. Where's the lastest from Roland? Yamaha? Akai? etc?...... are we now all left in the hands of Microsoft and Apple?

it just doesn't make any sense at all..... more and more are recording at home (even big name artists). yet it seems there are fewer and fewer means to do so. a new DAW app..?? is still the same platform.

add new technology into this idea of all-in-one. such as the SSD, USB 3.0 , fibre-channel or gigabit ethernet, yowzers.

pre-amps can be made without compromise to sound quality yet be cost effective as a unit such as this would far outsell any one company boutique pre-amps. hell make em an add on.... to gain alil more money back on R & D. whatever.

I CANT DO ALL THIS ALONE!!....this is the task for a BIG company with BAlls again ...ROLAND,YAMAHA ,TASCAM (not the X-48...im more alluding to their SX-1), AKAI....etc. fabrication of the motorized faders and the units actually housing would break me.

Im on board for an updated all-in-one. and i know many many more would be too. hell enough to even call it a market.


cheers

ur input skygod..... as a right now, get-er done on a budget that didnt require a financial planner.... its a nail hit right on the head.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

crufty

My recommendation would be to define the market first, the idea second...

Also consider the expense of plugin support / manufacture vs number of potential customers.

Market = everyone who is ever interested in recording themselves, friends, others they found interesting enough to be stored in the collective minds of the recorded past. basically everyone who is on THIS board. regardless...im sure if this was implemented in a way where it can be upgraded in time...there isnt a reason even HD accel 7 owners couldnt use one around the studio. studio B ? ?

im sure the expense of the plugs-ins....( a port of existing plugs) is do-able for a software company looking to open their profit margin book on a newly rediscovered industry boom . much more so doable than a port of a racked product to 500 series....which isnt stopping that boom ,....right?

cheers

[jigsawlogic]

Your enthusiasm for physical format/user conveniece seems to outweight the obvious sonic compromises in adopting such a solution.

Gung-ho is great...if it pushes in the right direction.

Full-sail ahead for the edge of the earth just might have some folks clutch their 2" machines in fear.

Sound quality above all is the motto. Anything less, and you run aground on the rock of skepticism.

[tuRnitUpsuM]

jigsawlogic

i hear you, , this isnt just a push for physicality and convience. The Roland et al did sound good when they came out... this is only a continuation plea of the same ideals.... with Improved sonic quality and alil more convience. That's the beauty of new technology.... they enhance (in theory) both areas of interest alil cheaper than possible before.

All im really wanting to see is the '08 version.... with todays networking ability, todays storage abilitys, todays sonic abilities. Everything is feasible.... the hard part is convincing the "make it so's" that it still is a viable profit venture. Which it is now more than ever!!!

Tascams X-48 is closer but it has omitted some of the things that has made the idea what is was.... eg no more hands on approach. (faders) no control over pans , levels, etc without a mouse or third-party controller.

Call me crazy but something like a VS-3000 the size of the C24 would make alot of sense in todays.....i can record it too market. and it doesnt have to mean it has to be UN-professional to achieve convience....again the beauty of technology.

In ALL fairness...they should clutch the 2" tape machines regardless. Masters are still important...no matter what format everything else has been done on.

cheers