Tapes and saturation!

EspenKluge · 17th October 2007

Hi

I just purchased one Fostex r8 recorder with the purpose of recording from my pc to it to make saturation effects.

I am a composer for film and television and only enjoyed the pleasures of digital processing and recording to this date.
Well now i want to experiment a little more and have some time on my hands so i made this purcahase in hopes of being able to play with saturations and fool around. Y" know, go old school for a spell!

So i hooked up the machine and i had some Scotch 150, and i recorded some tracks over. When reviewing the recording it sounded tinny or delay\chorus'ish in some way, the effect is really hard to explain so ill just tell you that it was not healthy sounding. Now this thing is bothering me, and have tried to read up on analog recording and different tapes and stuff like that. But what i feel is that i need some info on witch tapes that could come in handy for my use, and generally basic things
i need to know about recording on this 8 track.
Also on how i would go about cleaning this thing would be great.

CHEERS
Espen

EspenKluge · 18th October 2007

Would be great with some advice! Dont really know where else to turnt for advice.
Thx

FMNYC · 18th October 2007

alright... i'll chime...

first off, i LOVE tape.

to my ears it is still unbeatable.
no plug-in, however good the simulation might be is ever going to match tape.
it is an analog phenomenon experienced by analog, not digital, ears.

i used to also have fostex machine, i now have an Ampex machine and i love it but don't use it nowhere near as much as i thought i would.

but, to address your post.

i wouldn't try to clean my tape machine beyond any basic spot cleaning.
it sounds like your machine might have bigger issues that require a qualified technician to look into. which can be a hassle depending on where you are.
i bring that up because when i tried to get my fostex repaired or even looked at it was quite the endeavour.
in other words, find a local technician, it will make your life a lot easier.

i gave up in the end.
i can't even give the thing away for someone else to use as parts!

to succesfully include tape into your setup you need, and this in my rookie experience, a lot of time and a lot of patience.

but that's just me.

FM

FM... shaken, not stirred.

loujudson · 18th October 2007

Scoth 150? 50 year old, low output tape - get some new 499, GP9, or something comparable, learn how to clean and calibrate the machine, and how to align the tracks in your DAW.
google tape recorder maintenance and so on for more help...

You are monitoring off tape, and there is a delay because of the space between the record and play head - that machine does have three heads, right? - so you need to manually align the audio to perfection to gte it in sync.

Successful use of tape recorders takes years to learn well, I started in 1966, and I don't have time or links for a tutorial. Best to hook up with a local person who knows tape well, and ask for their help. The only way to really learn taoe deck use is hands on and watching an "expert" as far as I am concerned, and I did analog audio for 40 years before computers.

But I would not use that machine - a good Studer, Revox, and Ampex would give much better results. The one you have needs noise reduction for decent S/N, with its narrow tracks and less than optimal electronics...

Not meaning to be negative, but if you don't yet know how to clean it, you need to do a lot of studying and personal help is very useful.

Best luck!

Lou

EspenKluge · 18th October 2007

Thanks for good advice loujudson and FMNYC!

I have done some thinking and i thinkt i might pretty soon have my hands on a studer b-67, would this be a moore suitable machine!?

Thx

FMNYC · 18th October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EspenKluge

Thanks for good advice loujudson and FMNYC!

I have done some thinking and i thinkt i might pretty soon have my hands on a studer b-67, would this be a moore suitable machine!?

Thx

well... i am not an expert on tape machines by any stretch of the imagination but if i was to get another tape machine i wouldn't get anything less than 1/2" tape.

maybe other folks will chime in but it just seems to me, and this is probably because i am just a rookie, that it's pretty hard to get great results with the smaller tape... again, i don't know what i'm doing when it comes to tape...

my humble $0.2...

FM

FM... by any means necessary.

dbbubba · 18th October 2007

A Studer B67 is a great analog tape deck, but it will need to be gone over by a QUALIFIED tech who knows analog tape machines.
There is no telling what tape formulation it was set up for.
There are a lot of variables at play here!

Chances are it will need heads, but you never know.
I have a Studer A810 that was barely used in all of it's years.
It needed some serious re-furb work (which I can and did do) but luckily the heads were virtually brand new!
I knew the history of this deck intimately because it came from a facility that I worked at for years. I knew the deck had some "issues" but I also knew that it was barely ever used.

Chances are you won't get that lucky.
That's not to say that it can't be put back straight.
That is the beauty of analog tape decks

Jumping into analog recording w/o any background is going to require a bit of education on your part, but you gotta' start somewhere!

Trancetones · 19th October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMNYC

well... i am not an expert on tape machines by any stretch of the imagination but if i was to get another tape machine i wouldn't get anything less than 1/2" tape.

maybe other folks will chime in but it just seems to me, and this is probably because i am just a rookie, that it's pretty hard to get great results with the smaller tape... again, i don't know what i'm doing when it comes to tape...

my humble $0.2...

FM

FM... by any means necessary.

1/4" 2 Track on a good machine is perfectly fine for tracking before hitting the DAW and for the final post mix and/or post mastering medium.

u b k · 19th October 2007

indeed, 1/4" 2-track has the same track width as 2" 16 track. iow, it's plenty fat.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

EspenKluge · 19th October 2007

thanks for great reply's

I think i will get this studer because i know where it has been and think it wont be problematic getting info on it from the original owner. And it is suppose to be in great working shape. I will get to see it also before buying witch is nice. What do you guys think i should look for concering the state of the machine befor buying it?

Thx
Espen

FMNYC · 19th October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by u b k

indeed, 1/4" 2-track has the same track width as 2" 16 track. iow, it's plenty fat.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

thank you for clarifying that for me as well.
so much i don't know or just simply misunderstand.

all this talk of tape is making me wanna hook up my machine again...

hmmmmmmm...

peace!

FM

FM... Yeah! Yeah! Does he rock?Yeah! Yeah! He takes it to the top!

Da Mill · 19th October 2007

I still have my Tascam 80-8 and 3300sx 1/2 track from 1979 (both bought new). I clean and de-mag the heads constantly when in use. Tape quality is a major issue, as some tends to shed excessively depending on which you use and how old it is. I'd start out by getting it checked out by someone who knows what they're doing as stated previously. Once it's all dialed in, and proper tape is utilized, it should give you many years of reliable and rewarding experiences. My tascam decks are 28 years old and I've never even replaced a belt. (Knock on wood). I cannot comment on Fostex other than a friend of mine had one for many years out in a hot garage here in So. Cal. which he used constantantly and to my knowledge worked flawlessly. Good luck.

17th October 2007	#1
EspenKluge Gear interested Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4 Thread Starter	Tapes and saturation! Hi I just purchased one Fostex r8 recorder with the purpose of recording from my pc to it to make saturation effects. I am a composer for film and television and only enjoyed the pleasures of digital processing and recording to this date. Well now i want to experiment a little more and have some time on my hands so i made this purcahase in hopes of being able to play with saturations and fool around. Y" know, go old school for a spell! So i hooked up the machine and i had some Scotch 150, and i recorded some tracks over. When reviewing the recording it sounded tinny or delay\chorus'ish in some way, the effect is really hard to explain so ill just tell you that it was not healthy sounding. Now this thing is bothering me, and have tried to read up on analog recording and different tapes and stuff like that. But what i feel is that i need some info on witch tapes that could come in handy for my use, and generally basic things i need to know about recording on this 8 track. Also on how i would go about cleaning this thing would be great. CHEERS Espen

18th October 2007	#3
FMNYC Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 633	alright... i'll chime... first off, i LOVE tape. to my ears it is still unbeatable. no plug-in, however good the simulation might be is ever going to match tape. it is an analog phenomenon experienced by analog, not digital, ears. i used to also have fostex machine, i now have an Ampex machine and i love it but don't use it nowhere near as much as i thought i would. but, to address your post. i wouldn't try to clean my tape machine beyond any basic spot cleaning. it sounds like your machine might have bigger issues that require a qualified technician to look into. which can be a hassle depending on where you are. i bring that up because when i tried to get my fostex repaired or even looked at it was quite the endeavour. in other words, find a local technician, it will make your life a lot easier. i gave up in the end. i can't even give the thing away for someone else to use as parts! to succesfully include tape into your setup you need, and this in my rookie experience, a lot of time and a lot of patience. but that's just me. FM FM... shaken, not stirred. __________________ ________________________ http://thenoradsprings.net

19th October 2007	#9
u b k Gear Guru Joined: Oct 2004 Location: The Land of Sunshine Posts: 11,294	indeed, 1/4" 2-track has the same track width as 2" 16 track. iow, it's plenty fat. gregoire del ubk . __________________ • Tapey Compressor \| Silky Air EQ \| Vibey Plugin Squeezebox... • ...... • Kush Audio: High End Just Got Higher • ____________________

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18th October 2007	#4
loujudson Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,684 2 Reviews written	Scoth 150? 50 year old, low output tape - get some new 499, GP9, or something comparable, learn how to clean and calibrate the machine, and how to align the tracks in your DAW. google tape recorder maintenance and so on for more help... You are monitoring off tape, and there is a delay because of the space between the record and play head - that machine does have three heads, right? - so you need to manually align the audio to perfection to gte it in sync. Successful use of tape recorders takes years to learn well, I started in 1966, and I don't have time or links for a tutorial. Best to hook up with a local person who knows tape well, and ask for their help. The only way to really learn taoe deck use is hands on and watching an "expert" as far as I am concerned, and I did analog audio for 40 years before computers. But I would not use that machine - a good Studer, Revox, and Ampex would give much better results. The one you have needs noise reduction for decent S/N, with its narrow tracks and less than optimal electronics... Not meaning to be negative, but if you don't yet know how to clean it, you need to do a lot of studying and personal help is very useful. Best luck! Lou

18th October 2007	#7
dbbubba Banned Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,099	A Studer B67 is a great analog tape deck, but it will need to be gone over by a QUALIFIED tech who knows analog tape machines. There is no telling what tape formulation it was set up for. There are a lot of variables at play here! Chances are it will need heads, but you never know. I have a Studer A810 that was barely used in all of it's years. It needed some serious re-furb work (which I can and did do) but luckily the heads were virtually brand new! I knew the history of this deck intimately because it came from a facility that I worked at for years. I knew the deck had some "issues" but I also knew that it was barely ever used. Chances are you won't get that lucky. That's not to say that it can't be put back straight. That is the beauty of analog tape decks Jumping into analog recording w/o any background is going to require a bit of education on your part, but you gotta' start somewhere!

19th October 2007	#12
Da Mill Gear nut Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Yorba Linda Ca. Posts: 96	I still have my Tascam 80-8 and 3300sx 1/2 track from 1979 (both bought new). I clean and de-mag the heads constantly when in use. Tape quality is a major issue, as some tends to shed excessively depending on which you use and how old it is. I'd start out by getting it checked out by someone who knows what they're doing as stated previously. Once it's all dialed in, and proper tape is utilized, it should give you many years of reliable and rewarding experiences. My tascam decks are 28 years old and I've never even replaced a belt. (Knock on wood). I cannot comment on Fostex other than a friend of mine had one for many years out in a hot garage here in So. Cal. which he used constantantly and to my knowledge worked flawlessly. Good luck.