PTHD, still a valid choice?

[Gerax]

Hello everybody

It looks like times are changing at Digidesign, new products coming out, discounts, packages and the likes...I wouldn't be surprised if in a matter of months new HD hardware will be out.

Based on this consideration, and on the fact that on the used matket an HD1 Core + 192 I/O + Apogee DA16 is going in the likes of 5500€ (you do the math for USD), selling my 002R/RME ADI8-AE/MPT system and coughing out the remaining 4000€ deosn't seem too out of reach.
Processing power of an HD1 core + my Dual Athlon 4400 is more than enough for the caliber of mixes I handle in my project studio, besides, Process and Accel cards are available for decent prices should it be needed. The advantages I'd be looking for would be Apogee conversion (I'm using a Dangerous 2BusLT for summing), high track count, latency compensation, access to outboard processing (8 analog I/O 8 AES with the 192) which alone is worth the expense (IMHO), expansion potential to a bigger rig when needed, 5.1 surround capability, 100% compatibility with the bigger studios I work with.
My only fear is that by going with an HD1 and relative HW I'd be stuck with a dead end piece of kit in a matter of a few months, kinda like what happened to Mix systems when HD first came out.
I know this is endemic of the digital medium, but...you know...one tries to spend his hard earned money wisely.

Your thoughts?

L.G.

[Tony Shepperd]

Well let's look at this logically.
For the most part Digidesign announces new hardware at AES.
They usually do software announcements at NAMM in January.
Seeing how we just had an AES show and their were no announcements you are probably safe for another year.

[Gerax]

Ok, I'm cool with that. How long do you think an HD rig can be considered "viable" after its successor has been released? I see MIX|24+ with 3 888|24 going for like...1500€...not pretty for somebody who payed more than 10 times much for that in the beginning.
I'm looking to manage my budget in a reasonable way, while staying compatible/efficient; I'm a freelance with his own project room (for smaller projects), I really can't afford to rebuild my system from the gorund up every time Digidesign pulls the plug on a HW version if you understand what I mean. An LE rig for editing/small mixing has been enough so far, and a 003 isn't that big chunk of cash should I decide to upgrade. A full blown HD rig is a whole another story.

Thanx

L.G.

[Jim Williams]

They will probably come out with new hardware soon. It will be described in their white papers as more perfect-er than the last perfect versions. All previous white papers will be dismissed as the new model will finally be the perfect product. All analog comparisons wll be dismissed as they will use another inperfect analog model in which to compare their perfect new product.

Can't wait.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Mount Cyanide]

ProTools HRD

[Tony Shepperd]

Before you buy any system you should look at what the system will cost you and how long it will take you to pay it off. Amortization.

It's not just what you paid for it, it's how much you made while you owned the system.

If you buy an HD1 and a 192, you should be able to amortize that over the next year.
I bought my HD3 upgrade almost 4 years ago and spent $15,000 on the upgrade.

I have not only made my money back on the purchase, but managed to make a really good living over the past 4 years with the upgrades.

Even if Digidesign comes out with new hardware a year from now, your HD1 will still be a viable system.
HD has been out for at least 6 years and RCM tells me his Mix Plus system is still working for him.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by Gerax

MIX|24+ with 3 888|24

which is still a very "viable" system.

[Gerax]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Even if Digidesign comes out with new hardware a year from now, your HD1 will still be a viable system.

Amortizing gear it's a clear concept to anybody doing this for a living. My fear is that am HD rig is still viable until Digidesign decides it's not worth it anymore to make it compatible with new software revisions...and we all know they're not the nicest to deal with...
Anyway, thanx for your opinions, keep'em coming.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Well let's look at this logically.
For the most part Digidesign announces new hardware at AES.
They usually do software announcements at NAMM in January.
Seeing how we just had an AES show and their were no announcements you are probably safe for another year.

Of the items you listed, compatibility with other/bigger studios is the really the only one that would tie you (or me) to Pro Tools.

I am in the midst of the same debate for myself. I have PTLE, but I rhardly touch it. I love SONAR. I am at 7 Producer. I can do 60 and 80 track songs without batting an eyelash, using a combination of native, DSP and outboard processing, along with a Quad Core 2, 4GB RAM, etc.

Everything I buy, though, is scrutinized for future (potential) compatibility with HD (e.g. control surface, plug-ins, ADAT IF, converters, etc).

Don't get me wrong. I am NOT a PT hater. I hate LE, but that is another story . I love the software and work flow quite a bit. I have Macs and PCs and it works great on both. Almost everything I have works great on both! I just happen to like SONAR more. It is just as viable for making a 'professional' product as Nuendo, Logic, etc. But, like everything else, the 'big boys (and girls)' use HD. I feel like, sometimes, to be 'legit', I need to have HD. Having LE helps, for sure. I can support anything that comes in, up to 96k. Track count is irrelevant because I do not mix or record with it. It is nothing more than a conduit right now, for exporting tracks to another platform.

My response is academic at best. I really just want to participate because I am in the same boat. I am looking forward to the opinions of others. I have 1 empty PCIe and 2 empty PCI slot that are itching for an HD2 Accel set up. 5k to 7k US (including I/O), or even better, if I can find it used, will get me there. A fairly small investment, to be sure.

Jeesh...I just about talked myself in to it with this response...hmmmm

[OKden]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Seeing how we just had an AES show and their were no announcements you are probably safe for another year.

I'm pretty sure PTHD was announced at the January NAMM in 2002.

[Mount Cyanide]

I just want 16i/o of great conversion.
I've thought about the HD plunge countless times.
The dough and depreciation is what always does that idea in.
And yes it would pay for itself within a couple of months
but I've got a nasty drug habit.
So I stay at LE and settle for 8 channels of Apogee i/o
and use the 002 as an ilok.

The limits of PTLE is a hemmoroidal pain.
I would go the Radar route but my bread n butter is scoring to picture.

[seaneldon]

I dated a girl I didn't really care to even talk to for like 2 years because she was familiar. I got used to having her at my place, I knew I could get laid at the drop of a hat, sometimes she'd make dinner, we shared friends, all of that stuff. Part of me knew that I could spend my time looking around for someone else, but what the hell, I knew how to hang with this girl and it was sort of comfortable.

Then I met Marie. I was happier in general, dinner dates got cheaper, the sex was better, and I enjoyed being in her presence.

Pro Tools has stayed around for as long as it has because it's very familiar. It was familiar to me, and to about a jillion other people in our industry. Why use something else? I consider Pro Tools my "Girl #1" from the previous story.

Then I found Logic Studio. The Marie of computer audio software.

Get my drift?

[Dan]

What were you doing with that PT system?


I'm in the boat of G4 users with PTHD. I'm not going to cross grade to PCI-e but I would love to get a Mac Pro. I'm hoping they come out with something better in the near future. Seems past due to me.

[matthew.sawicki]

Originally Posted by Gerax

Hello everybody

It looks like times are changing at Digidesign, new products coming out, discounts, packages and the likes...I wouldn't be surprised if in a matter of months new HD hardware will be out.

Based on this consideration, and on the fact that on the used matket an HD1 Core + 192 I/O + Apogee DA16 is going in the likes of 5500€ (you do the math for USD), selling my 002R/RME ADI8-AE/MPT system and coughing out the remaining 4000€ deosn't seem too out of reach.
Processing power of an HD1 core + my Dual Athlon 4400 is more than enough for the caliber of mixes I handle in my project studio, besides, Process and Accel cards are available for decent prices should it be needed. The advantages I'd be looking for would be Apogee conversion (I'm using a Dangerous 2BusLT for summing), high track count, latency compensation, access to outboard processing (8 analog I/O 8 AES with the 192) which alone is worth the expense (IMHO), expansion potential to a bigger rig when needed, 5.1 surround capability, 100% compatibility with the bigger studios I work with.
My only fear is that by going with an HD1 and relative HW I'd be stuck with a dead end piece of kit in a matter of a few months, kinda like what happened to Mix systems when HD first came out.
I know this is endemic of the digital medium, but...you know...one tries to spend his hard earned money wisely.

Your thoughts?

L.G.

Hey man, I don't know if you've at all considered how much cheaper HD is going to be after the successor comes out, but if you already rolling with a rig that works for you at the moment then maybe that work out for you until the switch?

I know the waiting game is no fun at all, but if you're at all worried about your investment then this would protect you a bunch.

I have an HD3 system right now, and as soon as the next series comes out I'll be grabbing another HD rig and a couple more cards for mine.

All that said, if you need it now, then shiiiiiiiit... buy it! Like everyone said, the money you'll make off your rig will easily help you get it paid for.

[Tibbon]

If you can't make a decent album on a Protools Mix system, then you need to pack up, and sell everything you own, and become a plumber.

Same should be said for PT HD systems. If in 5 years (regardless of what is out) you find that PT HD isn't a decent tool, then you need to quit.

Go ahead and get PT HD. You don't want to buy the newest system as soon as it comes out anyways, as surely there will be problems with it and you don't want to be a beta tester for it. If it REALLY just justified businesswise to get the PT HD right now, then it will pay for itself really quickly. If it doesn't pay for itself quickly (and get you more business for all that studio work that you do with other studios, surround mixing, etc) then you didn't really need it.

[Gerax]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

If you can't make a decent album on a Protools Mix system, then you need to pack up, and sell everything you own, and become a plumber.

Same should be said for PT HD systems. If in 5 years (regardless of what is out) you find that PT HD isn't a decent tool, then you need to quit.

We're not talking about quality of the system, I'm interested in usability, compatibility; a Mix system is an outdated piece of hardware and I can get more processing power out of my native LE rig than a Mix|24+ right now, but that's not the point. My point is that once Digidesign decides to quit the support of your HD hardware with newer PT releases you're stuck with a system whose development is just over. No updates, no CS, no upgrades, and virtually no support (..."you know...this is an unsupported system..."). I bought a C|8 a few months ago to grab faders for mixing...and I'm shaking at the thought that it could be discontinued in a matter of months...I'm trying to evaluate how long I can live with an HD system once it'll get discontinued, no question I can make records on it, I'm doing records on my maxed out LE rig...

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Gerax

I'm trying to evaluate how long I can live with an HD system once it'll get discontinued,

Well, if Mix Plus is any indication, at least 5 years before after the introduction of a new system.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

Then I found Logic Studio. The Marie of computer audio software.

Get my drift?

I thought women were analog. Is Marie one of those "virtual" women? Maybe you should get out more.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by Gerax

We're not talking about quality of the system, I'm interested in usability, compatibility; a Mix system is an outdated piece of hardware and I can get more processing power out of my native LE rig than a Mix|24+ right now, but that's not the point. My point is that once Digidesign decides to quit the support of your HD hardware with newer PT releases you're stuck with a system whose development is just over. No updates, no CS, no upgrades, and virtually no support (..."you know...this is an unsupported system..."). I bought a C|8 a few months ago to grab faders for mixing...and I'm shaking at the thought that it could be discontinued in a matter of months...I'm trying to evaluate how long I can live with an HD system once it'll get discontinued, no question I can make records on it, I'm doing records on my maxed out LE rig...

I guess it just matters for how you're using it. If you're using it as a platform to mix on, plugins, etc... then I'd perhaps see your point. If it's just a tape/edit machine, and you're mixing otb on a console with outboard and the machine works... then it doesn't really matter. Sony doesn't exactly support a JH-24 anymore, but it works just fine if you maintain it.

Unless the next system had more power than god, then i personally wouldn't worry about it. If anything, it would be great because you could pick up more HD cards then for cheap. I almost never max out an HD3 system (but use a good bit of outboard).

[deuc647]

For as much as a used HD rig goes for these days just grab it. I was in the same boat but i dont need the latest shyt to make music which is what i got into music for, to make music. i have a gigabyte mobo, a single core amd, 1 gb of ram and 2 harddrives and the only thing wrong with my set up is i have a playback bug that i cant get rid of( anybody wanna help?) even if digi offers you a fuked up upgrade plan some one on ebay will buy it from you, i still see mix systems sold on ebay.