1/3 pay zero for radiohead's new release.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by -Noodles-

Maybe in the US there are a lot of people to consider paying, but when US artists come to the UK - I can 100% tell you (with evidence) that they make a sh-t load of cash and pay very little out.

Have you toured with a low to mid level band?

Touring expenses are pretty much the same wherever you go. In fact they may be cheaper in the US as they are a bigger market, accommodation is cheaper as is petrol etc.
Even if your claim were true, I'm sure most of those artists would be losing money in other areas of the world. It ain't no gravy train, except for the long established, super successful touring bands perhaps.

I've had 30+ years experience touring with major acts, indie/alt and low budget bands. Everyone bar the top level (Police, Madonna, Stones etc) are breaking even at best. I've done quite a few shows recently with lower level acts that lost significantly.
The artists in question paid the shortfall out of their publishing royalties.
I'm earning much less on the road now than I was twenty years ago for doing the same amount of work.
Selling CD's and t-shirts at the show caqn bump up your income, but touring is still expensive, and as yet unproven as a way to earn a decent living, except for major, major artists.
To sum up my thoughts......
Everytime the free music debate comes up, several people post about musos making 'shit loads of money'. I just haven't seen it, except for the upper end of the market.
There is a huge divide between the earnings of the drummer in Coldplay and the drummer with Nick Cave.
Dont forget also that a pop musicians best earning years can be anything from 2 to 10 years!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

[snip]...

One day you'll get a text message say Radiohead is playing next month. Reply to this text with the number of tickets you'ld like to buy. Enter 2222 to have them charged to you phone or enter you credit card number to have it charged to your card.
...[snip]

If I get a text message I will go through the ceiling. But if you pay with a credit card it's pretty standard to require a phone number.

But -- yeah, now that you mention it -- it did require a mobile number with an optional land line number. THAT is a little worrying.


I totally f---ing hate text messages. To the max. (I don't much like phone calls. God invented email for a reason.)

And -- if I ever get a text message -- or an automated call -- from RH or their organization -- I WILL extract vengeance.

Legally.

But it will be extracted. One way or another.


Ya listening, Thom?

[drakewire]

I am and have always been a huge huge fan or Radiohead... But this is just a terrible album with terrible droning concepts that lack all originality... No wonder they are practically giving it away. It just feels like they are trying so so so so hard to be different that they have basically ripped off many of pink floyd's concepts, led zepplin, the doors and frank zappa and gave it some really nice sound effects in the back ground... This is neither an innovative album or an innovative concept...
I already deleted the album... Thankfully I only gave them a buck and put in some other phone number....

[James Lehmann]

They've got this the wrong way around.

The order should be:

1. Download
2. Listen
3. Pay what you like based on how much you like it/what you think it's worth
(Or pay for a hardcopy or download of a decent quality version)

I've heard of some restaurants that do this - sit down, eat, and then pay the bill based on how much you like it/what you think it's worth. That wouldn't work at all if you had to pay up front before you've tasted the food!

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Who cares how many people bought it.

What really matters is how many people filled out the forms with the * honestly.

If it's the same percentage as paid, that means they have 2/3 of their fans mobile numbers and the zip codes to go with it!


When you get a text message from Thom Yorke about the date of their next gig in your area, then you'll see the real genious in what they've done. That ticket price is not going to be pay whatever you want. acutally never mind, it could be as long as there's the same Ticketmaster handling fee in it.

Ticketmaster makes huge money on the $5 fee. Radiohead will get that now. If they just charge a handling fee and let people set the prices, they'll be making Ticketmaster $. If they charge full price for a direct sale, it will be seriously hughe money.

If they charge they actual average price that a fan pays for a ticket, they'll have to open their own bank. For ever fany who pays face value, there's on who paid $500 to a scalper. The average price is prebably closer to $200/ticket. Selling direct via text/mobile phone cuts out the scalpers.


I can believe that this wouldn't have been part of the plan.

One day you'll get a text message say Radiohead is playing next month. Reply to this text with the number of tickets you'ld like to buy. Enter 2222 to have them charged to you phone or enter you credit card number to have it charged to your card.

Hell, they could even add extra dates in cities that sell out the day the sales are announced.

Once they set up an account, you could buy your merch via text at the show.


Plus, they know which show you were at, so they'll be able to sell you a CD or DVD of the show. Maybe they'll start carrying video cameras to hand out like the Beastie Boys did. Or more likely some electronics comany will pay them to do that and foot the bill for the video editing. Then there's a decen chance you'll see yourself in the DVD of the Radiohead show you were at. They'll charge you double for that.

Would would that type of fan identity information be worth to buy from radiohead's point of view? $1million? $2 million?

How much did their album cost to produce, $250k? $500k? $900k? It's cheaper to make them album and trade it for the identity info of the fans and make the big huge money in round two.


How much do you think they can charge Coldplay for access to their fan base? How many ticketmaster fees can they get selling tickets on behalf of Coldplay?

They didn't need to send an email confrimation so that you could get a link, that's how they verify that the email address is valid, so they at least got that from everyone. The mobile number is the real question. My phone goes in my pocket, right next to my wallet - the ideal place for any business to have access to...

Your argument might be valid only if you consider that radiohead is after maximising profit at any costs which I kind of doubt...Not everybody is as greedy as you think. (I know a difficult concept to grasp, even more so on your side of the Atlantic)
The Coldplay joke is funny though.

[sbs]

can't validate the source but a friend in the biz (no, i am not in the biz) tells me that radiohead have a deal to sell the details of each downloader for 25p.

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Who cares how many people bought it.

What really matters is how many people filled out the forms with the * honestly.

If it's the same percentage as paid, that means they have 2/3 of their fans mobile numbers and the zip codes to go with it!


When you get a text message from Thom Yorke about the date of their next gig in your area, then you'll see the real genious in what they've done. That ticket price is not going to be pay whatever you want. acutally never mind, it could be as long as there's the same Ticketmaster handling fee in it.

Ticketmaster makes huge money on the $5 fee. Radiohead will get that now. If they just charge a handling fee and let people set the prices, they'll be making Ticketmaster $. If they charge full price for a direct sale, it will be seriously hughe money.

If they charge they actual average price that a fan pays for a ticket, they'll have to open their own bank. For ever fany who pays face value, there's on who paid $500 to a scalper. The average price is prebably closer to $200/ticket. Selling direct via text/mobile phone cuts out the scalpers.


I can believe that this wouldn't have been part of the plan.

One day you'll get a text message say Radiohead is playing next month. Reply to this text with the number of tickets you'ld like to buy. Enter 2222 to have them charged to you phone or enter you credit card number to have it charged to your card.

Hell, they could even add extra dates in cities that sell out the day the sales are announced.

Once they set up an account, you could buy your merch via text at the show.


Plus, they know which show you were at, so they'll be able to sell you a CD or DVD of the show. Maybe they'll start carrying video cameras to hand out like the Beastie Boys did. Or more likely some electronics comany will pay them to do that and foot the bill for the video editing. Then there's a decen chance you'll see yourself in the DVD of the Radiohead show you were at. They'll charge you double for that.

Would would that type of fan identity information be worth to buy from radiohead's point of view? $1million? $2 million?

How much did their album cost to produce, $250k? $500k? $900k? It's cheaper to make them album and trade it for the identity info of the fans and make the big huge money in round two.


How much do you think they can charge Coldplay for access to their fan base? How many ticketmaster fees can they get selling tickets on behalf of Coldplay?

They didn't need to send an email confrimation so that you could get a link, that's how they verify that the email address is valid, so they at least got that from everyone. The mobile number is the real question. My phone goes in my pocket, right next to my wallet - the ideal place for any business to have access to...

[Resonant Alien]

Why is anyone here pissed that some people are downloading the album without paying???? Radiohead GAVE people that option......if Radiohead did not expect at least some people to download the album without paying anything, then they would not have given that option to begin with!!!!!!

Let's say I put up a guitar on eBay and say, "look, you can have this guitar for free, but you could also give me a little cash for it if you feel like it". If I do that, I have no right to be pissed when someone decides that they are going to take it for free......

Me? I paid $8. I would pay $12 if it was a CD with better quality and jewel case, but $8 is reasonable for a download.

[rectifier]

Originally Posted by sbs

can't validate the source but a friend in the biz (no, i am not in the biz) tells me that radiohead have a deal to sell the details of each downloader for 25p.

right.... I will eat all my guitars if this is true.. Absolute nonsense.

[Ironklad Audio]

FWIW, i read yesterday that they spent $60k recording the album

i'm sure they made that, and more, back in the 1st day the download was available

[sbs]

Originally Posted by rectifier

right.... I will eat all my guitars if this is true

with ketchup or mayo?

[urlmonro]

I know a lot of people who DL'd the album for a penny or whatever, and then to show their appreciation for the band/concept, ordered the box-set thingy...I still think this is a decent idea.

[JP11]

The more you pay, the more it's worth. It's funny to think that someone might feel guilty by giving nothing. Probably feel guilty downloading on the P2Ps no matter how they rationalize it, or want to blame the RIAA or whoever. Another thing about having all that you want is then it doesn't mean much anymore. When you can't afford something you want, you save up, and you finally get it, that's usually a good feeling. Plus, the desire to be successful and make money makes people do great things. Just rambling.

Here's an amusing article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/op...=1&oref=slogin

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by baikonour

Your argument might be valid only if you consider that radiohead is after maximising profit at any costs which I kind of doubt...Not everybody is as greedy as you think. (I know a difficult concept to grasp, even more so on your side of the Atlantic)
The Coldplay joke is funny though.

If they were doing exactly what I am suggesting, I wouldn't call that greedy. They are supposed to get some income from tehir music, right?

They're just being more efficient with the money streams so that as little as possible gets siphoned off by greedy third parties.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Resonant Alien

Why is anyone here pissed that some people are downloading the album without paying???? Radiohead GAVE people that option......if Radiohead did not expect at least some people to download the album without paying anything, then they would not have given that option to begin with!!!!!!

Let's say I put up a guitar on eBay and say, "look, you can have this guitar for free, but you could also give me a little cash for it if you feel like it". If I do that, I have no right to be pissed when someone decides that they are going to take it for free......

Me? I paid $8. I would pay $12 if it was a CD with better quality and jewel case, but $8 is reasonable for a download.

That's one way to look at it. You could also look at it as radiohead giving people the option to pay.

[Mike Caffrey]

"with ketchup or mayo?"


Who are they selling to?

You don't have to give your source, just give us the destination....

["No"]

Originally Posted by Clayphish

Anyone else surprised that 1/3 basically took the album for free

Yeah, I would have expected it to be much higher than that.

I just payed £5 for it. Seemed fair, and Im basically broke.

[JP11]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

That's one way to look at it. You could also look at it as radiohead giving people the option to pay.

Radiohead gave people the option to pay as much as they want including nothing.

So paying nothing is as valid an option as any and no one should feel bad about it.

I would feel like an idiot for paying $20 or $200 or apparently these people paid $1000. I suppose they did it for publicity.

I still think this radiohead b.s. is more interesting and more of a story than the music itself, and that's always good for music, right?

[sbs]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Who are they selling to?

i'll try get more info...

[Crushed]

Somebody with drake in their username said t best. This new album absolutely sucks. It's just about as bad as Yorke's solo album. Very fe redeeming qualities. Hugely disappointing. Start to play yer frikkin instruments already!! If I wanted an album with a bunch of ambient noise, I'd buy Eno or Lanois. Yuk!

Allen

[naked-puritan]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Have you toured with a low to mid level band?

Touring expenses are pretty much the same wherever you go. In fact they may be cheaper in the US as they are a bigger market, accommodation is cheaper as is petrol etc.
Even if your claim were true, I'm sure most of those artists would be losing money in other areas of the world. It ain't no gravy train, except for the long established, super successful touring bands perhaps.

I've had 30+ years experience touring with major acts, indie/alt and low budget bands. Everyone bar the top level (Police, Madonna, Stones etc) are breaking even at best. I've done quite a few shows recently with lower level acts that lost significantly.
The artists in question paid the shortfall out of their publishing royalties.
I'm earning much less on the road now than I was twenty years ago for doing the same amount of work.
Selling CD's and t-shirts at the show caqn bump up your income, but touring is still expensive, and as yet unproven as a way to earn a decent living, except for major, major artists.
To sum up my thoughts......
Everytime the free music debate comes up, several people post about musos making 'shit loads of money'. I just haven't seen it, except for the upper end of the market.
There is a huge divide between the earnings of the drummer in Coldplay and the drummer with Nick Cave.
Dont forget also that a pop musicians best earning years can be anything from 2 to 10 years!

Good lord chrisso - you said it!

[artnoiser]

Originally Posted by Crushed

Somebody with drake in their username said t best. This new album absolutely sucks. It's just about as bad as Yorke's solo album. Very fe redeeming qualities. Hugely disappointing. Start to play yer frikkin instruments already!! If I wanted an album with a bunch of ambient noise, I'd buy Eno or Lanois. Yuk!

Allen

It's funny, but as I was listening to this one, it seemed to me most everything IS played. I am amazed they forked up their own sounds so much, but in retrospect, after everything they've done, that seems natural...it's funny to see new directions influenced by stuff that was 'groundbreaking' only a few years ago, but then again, as I listen to it, Radiohead still seems like Radiohead.

I also admit I'm a bit biased because I like the ambient noise.

[teddy07x]

Originally Posted by amino

I have never paid for an mp3 file in my entire life and I never will. Offer them as flac's and they'll have my money in no time.

careful, by that time you're out of a job so you can't even afford paying for those flacs

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by JP11

Radiohead gave people the option to pay as much as they want including nothing.

So paying nothing is as valid an option as any and no one should feel bad about it.

I would feel like an idiot for paying $20 or $200 or apparently these people paid $1000. I suppose they did it for publicity.

I still think this radiohead b.s. is more interesting and more of a story than the music itself, and that's always good for music, right?

Actually they paid $200 for the download and $800 for 10 boxsets. A bit different really.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Who cares how many people bought it.

What really matters is how many people filled out the forms with the * honestly.

If it's the same percentage as paid, that means they have 2/3 of their fans mobile numbers and the zip codes to go with it!


When you get a text message from Thom Yorke about the date of their next gig in your area, then you'll see the real genious in what they've done. That ticket price is not going to be pay whatever you want. acutally never mind, it could be as long as there's the same Ticketmaster handling fee in it.

Ticketmaster makes huge money on the $5 fee. Radiohead will get that now. If they just charge a handling fee and let people set the prices, they'll be making Ticketmaster $. If they charge full price for a direct sale, it will be seriously hughe money.

If they charge they actual average price that a fan pays for a ticket, they'll have to open their own bank. For ever fany who pays face value, there's on who paid $500 to a scalper. The average price is prebably closer to $200/ticket. Selling direct via text/mobile phone cuts out the scalpers.


I can believe that this wouldn't have been part of the plan.

One day you'll get a text message say Radiohead is playing next month. Reply to this text with the number of tickets you'ld like to buy. Enter 2222 to have them charged to you phone or enter you credit card number to have it charged to your card.

Hell, they could even add extra dates in cities that sell out the day the sales are announced.

Once they set up an account, you could buy your merch via text at the show.


Plus, they know which show you were at, so they'll be able to sell you a CD or DVD of the show. Maybe they'll start carrying video cameras to hand out like the Beastie Boys did. Or more likely some electronics comany will pay them to do that and foot the bill for the video editing. Then there's a decen chance you'll see yourself in the DVD of the Radiohead show you were at. They'll charge you double for that.

Would would that type of fan identity information be worth to buy from radiohead's point of view? $1million? $2 million?

How much did their album cost to produce, $250k? $500k? $900k? It's cheaper to make them album and trade it for the identity info of the fans and make the big huge money in round two.


How much do you think they can charge Coldplay for access to their fan base? How many ticketmaster fees can they get selling tickets on behalf of Coldplay?

They didn't need to send an email confrimation so that you could get a link, that's how they verify that the email address is valid, so they at least got that from everyone. The mobile number is the real question. My phone goes in my pocket, right next to my wallet - the ideal place for any business to have access to...

So, did anyone else just get an email from w.a.s.t.e about the upcoming Radiohead tour dates and a link to a website where you can buy them driectly?

[chris carter]

More telling is that they are shutting down the store. Seems to be yet another indicator that strategy didn't work out so well.

[Kris]

Originally Posted by drakewire

I am and have always been a huge huge fan or Radiohead... But this is just a terrible album with terrible droning concepts that lack all originality... No wonder they are practically giving it away. It just feels like they are trying so so so so hard to be different that they have basically ripped off many of pink floyd's concepts, led zepplin, the doors and frank zappa and gave it some really nice sound effects in the back ground... This is neither an innovative album or an innovative concept...
I already deleted the album... Thankfully I only gave them a buck and put in some other phone number....

Why does everything have to be "innovative", "different", etc? Why can't it just be good music?

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by chris carter

More telling is that they are shutting down the store. Seems to be yet another indicator that strategy didn't work out so well.

Not at all.

They're creating a supply limit to increase the demand.


It's like Kiss doing a farewell tour. They're done several. Eventually Radiohead will rerelease the album "due to demand" or they'll do a record deal with it now that they've squeezed the juice from the fruit and the record label can make due with what's left.

[GravityRobert]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Not at all.

They're creating a supply limit to increase the demand.

It's like Kiss doing a farewell tour. They're done several. Eventually Radiohead will rerelease the album "due to demand" or they'll do a record deal with it now that they've squeezed the juice from the fruit and the record label can make due with what's left.

Exactly, me personally I love the album and I'll most certainly will buy it after the cd release, if only for the unreleased songs (who are on the diskbox release).

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by GravityRobert

Exactly, me personally I love the album and I'll most certainly will buy it after the cd release, if only for the unreleased songs (who are on the diskbox release).

"act now, supplies are limited!"

[Jack P]

From what i've read - the box set has sold over 700,000 at 40 pounds (that's 28 million pounds), deduct the bulk pressing costs - that leaves around 20 million pounds profit - nice !!!