Can you smell success

[Igotsoul4u]

Can you tell if something you are involved with is going to really be successful??? Reason why I ask is that right now I have a nice collection of songs together and many industry contacts that should lead to something really good. I have never felt more certain that something was going to work out. BTW, My definition of working out is not megastar status but a comfortable slightly upper class life. Unfortunatly my hopes are really up on this one and I'll be pretty bummed out if things don't work out. I feel like this is the best chance i have had so far and i don't think I will get another so easily if there's a next time. Anyway....Just a little stressed. I have been working very hard for a long time and I could use a little peace of mind.

[drakewire]

Thats one of those things A&R people feel just before they get canned for producing the last NSYNC Album...
Just kidding... Good for you Brother... No Its a good thing... As long as you believe...
thumbsup

[Igotsoul4u]

I wish I produced N'syncs last album. I think they sold 10,000,000.

[CaptCrunch]

I think so. Years ago a buddy and I recorded a band that was clearly leagues beyond the competition. They actually were doing quite well and attracted a great deal of attention. They had people begging to manage them and they finally signed with someone that I, my buddy, and their familes were strongly against, and that began their downfall. When we first recorded them though, success was in the air. There was no question about how good they were to everyone but them; they were still a bit insecure. The more people see something that they feel will be successful, the more they try to align themselves with that something. Therein lies the problem: the more opinions there are, the greater the chance a wrong decision or two will be made. That is what needs to be avoided. A chorus of ass-lickers will bring nothing but ass results. But yeah, you will certainly feel the vibe when something is working. Good luck with your efforts!

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by CaptCrunch

There was no question about how good they were to everyone but them; they were still a bit insecure. The more people see something that they feel will be successful, the more they try to align themselves with that something. Therein lies the problem: the more opinions there are, the greater the chance a wrong decision or two will be made. That is what needs to be avoided.

Good point. A lot of people dont realize that music/talent are only a TINY bit of what makes somebody successful in the end. Intelligence and having a strong sense of self, are equally important. That's why I'd never advise a 16-year old to sing a record deal. Before you get involved in this industry you need to develop a strong personality and figure out who the **** you are, otherwise everyone and their mother will tell you what to stand for and what your image should look like.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u

Can you tell if something you are involved with is going to really be successful??? Reason why I ask is that right now I have a nice collection of songs together and many industry contacts that should lead to something really good. I have never felt more certain that something was going to work out. BTW, My definition of working out is not megastar status but a comfortable slightly upper class life. Unfortunatly my hopes are really up on this one and I'll be pretty bummed out if things don't work out. I feel like this is the best chance i have had so far and i don't think I will get another so easily if there's a next time. Anyway....Just a little stressed. I have been working very hard for a long time and I could use a little peace of mind.

No offense but you're setting yourself up for failure. What are you, an artist trying to land a deal? If that's the case, even if you get a deal... you'll be lucky if the label even releases your record. And if they release it, you'll be lucky if they get behind it. Yes, even if you have so-called "hit songs". I know enough acts who all kinds of people (including big name producers, A&Rs, label presidents, etc) told to be the next big thing, only to eventually get shelved or dropped.

But hey, give it a shot. I'm doing the same... just get your expectations right. Even achieving a "slighty upper class life" will require you having major success. What do you think a band that sells 500k albums makes? Do you think they're millionaires? No, they're far from even having a "slightly upper class life".... and the chances of YOU selling 500k or more, are pretty much zero.

[Vandergraf]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

.... and the chances of YOU selling 500k or more, are pretty much zero.

How encouraging.

[Inner Light]

I find it smells exactly like = relax there buddy!

been there many times myself

[8th_note]

Can you tell if something you are involved with is going to really be successful???

Yes, but you have to be careful about the criteria. Were people turned away from your last gig because the venue was over capacity? Does your band have 12,000 Myspace friends and counting? Have you sold 2,000 copies of your self released CD? Are you getting a couple of your songs played on the local radio station because people are calling in requesting them?

The only real way to tell if your going to be successful is success itself. Sorry, but you asked for a reality check.

[kats]

Can you smell success

Nope, just a great product.

Success has more to do with fluke than the product itself.

The key is to position yourself in as many flukey positions as possible, it'll increase your flukeyness

[Farout]

fluke yeah!!

[joeq]

most people who actually became successful had a vision of their success. From their perspective, it seems as if they 'knew' it all along. They will then give interviews telling everyone about this vision.

On the other hand, many many people may have had exactly similar visions of their success and it didn't pan out.

These people tend to not get interviewed.

If you have already been successful in the past, then perhaps you know what success "smells like". I assume you have not already been on the top of the charts, so what you are talking about is more about 'psychic' phenomena than any memory or learned behavior about what goes into success. Nobody here is going to read your palm.

Unfortunatly my hopes are really up on this one and I'll be pretty bummed out if things don't work out. I feel like this is the best chance i have had so far and i don't think I will get another so easily if there's a next time.

I may not be the best person to tell you what will make the Big Time. I would count scratching out a living doing what I love to do "success".

But I think it is fairly safe to say that allowing yourself to get bummed when "things don't work out" is not one of the seven habits of highly successful people. I have seen talented people toss out perfectly wonderful material, or break up their band, or quit music altogether because the ONE label they were talking to passed on them.

That's just nuts.

Don't fall into that 'this is my last chance' trap.

keep plugging

and remember if you haven't already played your stuff to someone it's new to them! don't write off the great material you did last year because it's "old". It's only old to you.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by Vandergraf

How encouraging.

Reality doesnt leave room for lies!

[snüzz]

[quote]

Originally Posted by joeq

most people who actually became successful had a vision of their success. From their perspective, it seems as if they 'knew' it all along. They will then give interviews telling everyone about this vision.

On the other hand, many many people may have had exactly similar visions of their success and it didn't pan out.

These people tend to not get interviewed.

If you have already been successful in the past, then perhaps you know what success "smells like". I assume you have not already been on the top of the charts, so what you are talking about is more about 'psychic' phenomena than any memory or learned behavior about what goes into success. Nobody here is going to read your palm.



I may not be the best person to tell you what will make the Big Time. I would count scratching out a living doing what I love to do "success".

But I think it is fairly safe to say that allowing yourself to get bummed when "things don't work out" is not one of the seven habits of highly successful people. I have seen talented people toss out perfectly wonderful material, or break up their band, or quit music altogether because the ONE label they were talking to passed on them.

That's just nuts.

Don't fall into that 'this is my last chance' trap.

keep plugging

and remember if you haven't already played your stuff to someone it's new to them! don't write off the great material you did last year because it's "old". It's only old to you.

these are wise words.

[John Suitcase]

Things that are going to be successful often have a characteristic of being 'magnetic.' It's the kind of thing where you almost do nothing (well, very little)and buzz starts to build, people start to call, etc. You play the song on the overhead speakers at Borders, and people continue to ask the clerk about it.

Generally, things that smell like success are things that smell like something that's been done before, which isn't a good sign. Something can smell pretty foul, but for some reason gets people's attention, that's success, from a commercial perspective. Think 'The Macarena.'

Survivor Bias is that nasty tendency to look at successful people and try to figure out what made them successful. Without looking at the thousands of others who were unsuccessful, you can't really glean any information. And even if you can, the market changes daily, so what worked yesterday may fail tomorrow.

So, it's down to being in the right place at the right time, and to keeping your nose to the grindstone, doing something new, and hopefully something relevant.

I've had little rides on the success train, but haven't hit the motherlode myself, either. Don't beat yourself up if you don't get where you want to go right away. Keep on keeping on, and be glad you have something in your life that brings you joy, even if you don't get rich.

[RKrizman]

Just keep on doing it and don't worry too much. Whether this is the big one or not is impossible to tell. Just go down the road and be open to where it leads you. The more you try to guarantee success, the more rigid and solidified and unlistenable your music can become.

Best of luck,

-R

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

Things that are going to be successful often have a characteristic of being 'magnetic.' It's the kind of thing where you almost do nothing (well, very little)and buzz starts to build, people start to call, etc.

You know what.... this is what people THINK, but it's never true. It's never that buzz just started to happen without the act actually doing anything. BUT, as an artist your goal should always be to make it SEEM that way.

"What, you formed 2 months? And you already have a MySpace Site with 20,000 friends and 10,000 plays per day? And you have a demo full of hit songs?"

This is what I call the "coming out of nowhere" effect. You always wanna make it seem as if you came out of nowhere, one day you just showed up, 100% ready, with a great image, looks, hit songs, performance skills, yadda yadda - the full package.

Forget the grassroots touring BS. If you really want the industry to go gaga over you, hide away for a couple years, just develop yourself, and spend all your time writing those hit songs... and when you're finally ready, that's when you show up. Not sooner. A&Rs rarely get excited about an act that has already been together for 6 years, and toured the country 20 times. They think "if they'd be any good, somebody would've already picked them up". But if you give them the type of act I described above, oh boy, they'll come running...

[GYMusic]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

Forget the grassroots touring BS. If you really want the industry to go gaga over you, hide away for a couple years, just develop yourself, and spend all your time writing those hit songs... and when you're finally ready, that's when you show up. Not sooner. A&Rs rarely get excited about an act that has already been together for 6 years, and toured the country 20 times. They think "if they'd be any good, somebody would've already picked them up". But if you give them the type of act I described above, oh boy, they'll come running...

It's so true... I see/hear so many songwriters at these "Songwriter Nights" that just suck. And maybe they had a bad night. But until you're a household name, no one will forgive or forget those bad nights. You'll be thought of as mediocre. You better come out of the starting gate rehearsed and professional.

[John Suitcase]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

You know what.... this is what people THINK, but it's never true. It's never that buzz just started to happen without the act actually doing anything. BUT, as an artist your goal should always be to make it SEEM that way.

I wasn't suggesting that bands not do anything, I was saying that if something is good or unique enough to be successful, it will spread easily, of its own accord, almost. Of course, if you suck that won't happen, and if you're great but play only for yourself, it won't happen either. But things that blow up have 'it', whatever it is. And sometimes it takes a while, it blows up slowly, but is unstoppable. Flash in the pan hype bands seem to blow up, but they don't have it, and they burn out. That's not success.

REM is a good example of a band that had 'it'. It took years for them to get to the mainstream, but all along the way, their music spread, without much effort or major marketing.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by GYMusic

It's so true... I see/hear so many songwriters at these "Songwriter Nights" that just suck. And maybe they had a bad night. But until you're a household name, no one will forgive or forget those bad nights. You'll be thought of as mediocre. You better come out of the starting gate rehearsed and professional.

But those artists dont deserve it any better. It blows my mind how people idolize it when kids are willing to live off of ramen noodles each day, just so they can play in front of 4 kids every night. I know my opinion may be very controversial, but I dont call that being a true musician, I call that being stupid. These type of bands should spend their time in their rehearsal rooms working on material, because there's a reason why nobody cares about them. If you got the songs, people will BEG you to play for them. And trust me, it wont be just 4 kids. Word spreads fast nowadays. It's impossible for an act with hit songs to not blow up. IMPOSSIBLE! Kids will talk about it on AbsolutePunk, IM & Facebook and the junior A&Rs will eventually find your profile on MySpace and bring you to the attention of the big guys at the label.

It's funny how many times I see bands on MySpace who have a disclaimer, saying "Those recordings are only roughs, they dont do our songs or live performances any justice, so pleas keep that in mind when listening". People like that deserve the whole world laughing at them. If your recordings suck, dont put 'em up! It's that simple. You dont put anything out there that's not top notch, even if it's "just" a promo shot. Otherwise, dont wonder why nobody cares about you and people consider you bush league.

[JP11]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

Word spreads fast nowadays. It's impossible for an act with hit songs to not blow up. IMPOSSIBLE! Kids will talk about it on AbsolutePunk, IM & Facebook and the junior A&Rs will eventually find your profile on MySpace and bring you to the attention of the big guys at the label.

Like who?

[Saudade]

After doing "this" a while, I realised there should only be two good motives why one should make music, regardless as a career or as a lifelong hobby.

One, to make oneself happy. Fill our short existence on this planet with sounds and emotions! Enjoy the very privilege of being human!

Two, to make $.

Having any other motives is setting yourself up for a fall.

If you can honestly confront yourself and conclude that you are doing it purely for objective two, then I don't see why you should be so worried about the outcome. If this fails you will realise it doesn't really affect you much, because ideas will come to those who are out to make $. You will try again and again and one day realise there are much faster ways to make $ than through music. Duh.

Or if you are honestly doing it purely for objective one, there is even less reason you should be losing sleep over it. You will stop thinking in terms of opportunity costs, trade-offs and sacrifices.

Just don't become that type of pathetic (don't mean it in the condescending way) musician who is REALLY into their own music, and expects the world to LOVE his music the way he loves it, and on top of that demands financial success as well.

Words gets lost. Meanings get distorted once spoken. You will one day realise nobody sees your music the way you see it. Having sold triple platinum doesn't mean anyone of those who bought your album understood a shred of what you were trying to put across. Learn to live with this fact. We are all so small and insignificant, no matter what the mass media make us out to be.

Once you get pass that stage of defining for yourself what success means, everything is so clear cut. Just flip the switch and play some riffs

(I realised what I wrote isn't really relevant to your post, sorry, just sharing some related experiences )

[snüzz]

It's impossible for an act with hit songs to not blow up. IMPOSSIBLE! Kids will talk about it on AbsolutePunk, IM & Facebook and the junior A&Rs will eventually find your profile on MySpace and bring you to the attention of the big guys at the label.

are you serious? it's not as if that particular plan has not worked for some but to put all music under that blanket?tutt you are putting too much faith that the average joe will recognize a picasso. it's just not so.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by snüzz

are you serious? it's not as if that particular plan has not worked for some but to put all music under that blanket?tutt you are putting too much faith that the average joe will recognize a picasso. it's just not so.

What you dont think get, is this: THE AVERAGE JOE DEFINES WHAT A PICASSO IS!

If your act doesnt resonate with the public, you're just not good enough (in THEIR book). We have a new paradigm, labels/mtv/radio no longer make and pick the stars, the audience does. And you may complain about modern music, but if people would wanna listen to something different, they would've already found their own Beatles, Led Zep or Nirvana and MADE THEM STARS!

Originally Posted by JP11

Like who?

I.E: Colbie Caillat and OneRepublic

Both acts were 100% MADE by the people (through MySpace = word of mouth), and now have Top10 hits (OneRepublic is on #4 and Colbie on #7). Hell, OneRepublic has yet to release their album. Colbie's debuted at #5 on the Billboard charts!

[tuRnitUpsuM]

snüzz

you are putting too much faith that the average joe will recognize a picasso

recognize?? most average joes...cant spell picasso !!


this has been brought to you by the mind of turnitsum! message will self destruct in....3....2......1......


cheers

[warmer]

I don't agree with this, the average JOE is still told what they like, they just don't realise they are being told so much anymore.

As to feeling success is just around the corner, I think I can, it is about the same time I always bail out!

[tuRnitUpsuM]

warmer

I don't agree with this, the average JOE is still told what they like, they just don't realise they are being told so much anymore.

kind of the point i was making... ( being told what they like = recognizing picasso (hypothetically) ... not being able to spell picasso = the fact some dont even see the cliff they are walking over ( when feed by marketing hype on what to listen to) ) . ahhhh


success is measurable in many ways..... just know what that word means to you..... and hit em with everything u got.


wish u all best Igotsoul4u

cheers

[JP11]

Originally Posted by quietdrive

I.E: Colbie Caillat and OneRepublic

Both acts were 100% MADE by the people (through MySpace = word of mouth), and now have Top10 hits (OneRepublic is on #4 and Colbie on #7). Hell, OneRepublic has yet to release their album. Colbie's debuted at #5 on the Billboard charts!

Hadn't heard of either one. Put Caillat's name in google, saw wikipedia, see a a mention of her myspace thing, and then this:

Colbie is daughter to Diane Caillat and Ken Caillat, record producer known for working with Fleetwood Mac. Colbie's father has also helped produce her music.

I haven't heard her, and I'm not doubting that people like her or that she was popular on myspace, but I can't help but think that maybe daddy helped (a lot).

[snüzz]

quietdrive,

isn't it a contradiction to say that if you have a great song (hit) it is impossible for it not to reach the masses and then turn around and agree with (warmer) who says the average joe must still be told what to like? please explain.

[warmer]

kind of the point i was making... ( being told what they like = recognizing picasso (hypothetically) ... not being able to spell picasso = the fact some dont even see the cliff they are walking over ( when feed by marketing hype on what to listen to) ) . ahhhh

Sorry I should have put a quote in, I was talking about quietdrive's post, and agreeing with you thumbsup

snüzz, turnitupsum didn't say that?