another NAIL in the record industry's coffin

[dj_who]

aside from radiohead going it alone...NIN is no longer connected to Universal/Interscope.

i can only wish this continues and the majors are just a memory.

nin.com [the official nine inch nails website]

this is from trent reznor's post:

"08 October 2007: Big News
Hello everyone. I've waited a LONG time to be able to make the
following announcement: as of right now Nine Inch Nails is a totally
free agent, free of any recording contract with any label. I have
been under recording contracts for 18 years and have watched the
business radically mutate from one thing to something inherently very
different and it gives me great pleasure to be able to finally have a
direct relationship with the audience as I see fit and appropriate.
Look for some announcements in the near future regarding 2008.
Exciting times, indeed."

[rockrev]

Though labels played a major role in getting him to where he is. To that there is little dispute.

dj

BTW - my comments should not be taken as musical criticism. His work has always been exciting. I just don't see what's so exciting about making money on a label, then going independent. It's been done many times by many different artists. Good for Trent - no nail in a coffin, though (IMHO).

[sleestack]

Thats like saying walmart played a major role in getting Acuve Saline solution to where it is today.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by rockrev

Though labels played a major role in getting him to where he is. To that there is little dispute.

18 years ago there were few options to get to the level that NIN did without bending over for a major. Today that is not the case.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

18 years ago there were few options to get to the level that NIN did without bending over for a major. Today that is not the case.

What's funny to me in a lot of ways is that the tension with TVT is what helped create Broken. Now arguably one of the very few albums where the engineering and production are actually considered a work of art by many...

[AudioFocus]

Originally Posted by bcgood

What's funny to me in a lot of ways is that the tension with TVT is what helped create Broken. Now arguably considered one of the very few albums where the engineering and production are actually considered a work of art by many...

Agreed. Even if NIN never had a record deal Trent's music would still get out there. I think at least now that artists are dropping labels (and not the other way around) maybe the labels will rethink their attitudes.

Cheers,
Creston

NIN RULES!!!

[richardswag]

Originally Posted by AudioFocus

Agreed. Even if NIN never had a record deal Trent's music would still get out there. I think at least now that artists are dropping labels (and not the other way around) maybe the labels will rethink their attitudes.

Cheers,
Creston

NIN RULES!!!

But would he have had the budget to make a record that sounded so good?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

18 years ago there were few options to get to the level that NIN did without bending over for a major. Today that is not the case.

no true. The indies RULED at that time - the majors were floundering looking for a way out. The solution? They started buying the indies but allowing autonomy to continue....... which is how i made my cash


But point taken - he used the industry in as much the same way the industry has used others..... tit for tat i say and goal to Trent.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Blender2

Things will really be changing in the idustry very soon as soon as artists such as myself can use our music to make people realize that they have to unite and forget everything they thought they knew about music. But until that happens you are going to hear a bunch of the guys who got rich off of being a part of the ongoing rape that record companies have been commiting upon the art of music in mainstreem socioty and they are going to try and pretend as though they are your freinds and were just helpless victims of the record companies.What a joke!

the only joke is your pretentious purile juvenile trolling crap.

[AudioFocus]

Originally Posted by richardswag

But would he have had the budget to make a record that sounded so good?

Halo 2 (aka Pretty Hate Machine) was recorded at Right Track Studios in Cleveland, OH while Trent was playing in The Exotic Birds, and working at RTS as an intern/janitor. He recorded it for free. Then used the demos to get signed to an indie, TVT. Even if he didn't have money, he didn't need it. Album was recorded for free (w/o the studio owners knowledge)

Creston

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Blender2

That was rude. I didn't say anything about you so there is no reason to not be nice. I am entitled to my opinion just like you so please stop.

i wrote a great reply about many things - forgot to log in. Lost it!

bugger.

Anyway - you get what you live by.

Respond and post like you just did and you'll get the respect you deserve/earned. Trolling gets treated as it should - with disdain, and $400,000 studio budgets. As my good freidn Max says - "act like an idiot, then ruddy well expect to be treated like one".

No more rudeness, B, promise. But no more cock n bull too eh?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Blender2

One day you will see that your jealousy and rudeness have gotten you knowwhere and maybe then you will stop saying mean things to people. Music is for everyone to enjoy not just you. If you are so unhappy maybe you just need to practice more or something but be nice to everyone.

Blender, it's not necessarily your comments on this thread (although "artists such as myself" was a bit w*nky") but your comments on your other thread about "what gear will get me an epic sound?" that's totally wrecked any cred you might have aspired to. You may be entitled to your opinion, but no-one has to listen to you.

My advice? let the blender username die, for god's sake change the avatar (it's so ironic at this point in time it's no longer funny) and come back more contrite without your head up your arse. Then you might find people give you a chance to ask some sensible questions/join in debates, without getting your head ripped off.

Oh, and I wouldn't knock narcoman...he's had quite a bit more experience and success than you....

[rectifier]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Blender, it's not necessarily your comments on this thread (although "artists such as myself" was a bit w*nky") but your comments on your other thread about "what gear will get me an epic sound?" that's totally wrecked any cred you might have aspired to. You may be entitled to your opinion, but no-one has to listen to you.

My advice? let the blender username die, for god's sake change the avatar (it's so ironic at this point in time it's no longer funny) and come back more contrite without your head up your arse. Then you might find people give you a chance to ask some sensible questions/join in debates, without getting your head ripped off.

Oh, and I wouldn't knock narcoman...he's had quite a bit more experience and success than you....

well said..

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Blender, it's not necessarily your comments on this thread (although "artists such as myself" was a bit w*nky") but your comments on your other thread about "what gear will get me an epic sound?" that's totally wrecked any cred you might have aspired to. You may be entitled to your opinion, but no-one has to listen to you.

My advice? let the blender username die, for god's sake change the avatar (it's so ironic at this point in time it's no longer funny) and come back more contrite without your head up your arse. Then you might find people give you a chance to ask some sensible questions/join in debates, without getting your head ripped off.

Oh, and I wouldn't knock narcoman...he's had quite a bit more experience and success than you....

beers on me.....

i'd better get some work done. sooooo looking for an excuse not to do it.....

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by narcoman

no true. The indies RULED at that time - the majors were floundering looking for a way out. The solution? They started buying the indies but allowing autonomy to continue....... which is how i made my cash


But point taken - he used the industry in as much the same way the industry has used others..... tit for tat i say and goal to Trent.

Are you Noel Gallagher?

You did say your brother toured with Oasis in another post

[-Noodles-]

If he is Noel... then he should know how much Oasis make in a year.. Which apperently is a well kept secret?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Are you Noel Gallagher?

You did say your brother toured with Oasis in another post

unfortunately not!! But yes, my brother has indeed toured with Oasis, amongst others.

[MOFO PRO]

And just how am I supposed to know what music music I should be listening to if the major labels aren't going to tell me what I like???

[jmcdaniel_ee]

Maybe that explains Year Zero. It makes sense now that he just recorded it to end his contract, but he should've at least put a disclaimer for the public not to buy it.

[quietdrive]

Originally Posted by bcgood

What's funny to me in a lot of ways is that the tension with TVT is what helped create Broken. Now arguably one of the very few albums where the engineering and production are actually considered a work of art by many...

Great point. A lot of times the tension, pressure and torture that a record deal creates, pushes the artist to his absolute limits, which results in better songs.... but it's a fine line, very few A&Rs know how to calibrate the whole thing. If you constantly hear "No, this isnt good enough", at some point you'll just get frustrated as an artist. See Hanson's "Strong Enough To Break" documentary (on YouTube or iTunes) for such an example.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by AudioFocus

Halo 2 (aka Pretty Hate Machine) was recorded at Right Track Studios in Cleveland, OH while Trent was playing in The Exotic Birds, and working at RTS as an intern/janitor. He recorded it for free. Then used the demos to get signed to an indie, TVT. Even if he didn't have money, he didn't need it. Album was recorded for free (w/o the studio owners knowledge)

Creston

ohh man that's funny ..i was there when he was doing his demo stuff..exotic birds ..damn why is that sticking in my head so much?

hmm i wonder if i have a demo somewhere

the studio owner took me in the room TR was working in on that and played me some stuff so i am fairly certain he knew what was going on

look at Annie De Franco she shunned labes early on when she coulda just taken th eeasy route

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by narcoman

no true. The indies RULED at that time - the majors were floundering looking for a way out. The solution? They started buying the indies but allowing autonomy to continue....... which is how i made my cash


But point taken - he used the industry in as much the same way the industry has used others..... tit for tat i say and goal to Trent.

What indie labels were 'ruling' 18 years ago? The network that is in place for artists today is light years beyond what was available 18 years ago.

Anyone on this thread that thinks Trent owe's his label anything beyond what was agreed to contractually either works at a label or knows squat about the business.

[ALL*MYTEE]

By itself it's not really a nail. He'll find the same thing that the labels already know--that the business climate is tough out there. There are an estimated 25 downloads for every legit music purchase.

The industry can continue for a little while by cutting costs and eliminating middle-men, though that will mean more work for the artists who fly solo. Contrary to popular belief, people at labels are usually huge music fans who work tirelessly for their artists--doing promotion, tour support, coordinating shipping details, etc., etc.

Eventually they'll have to raise prices. (Even making songs available online costs money. Just the servers for Radiohead's record are estimated to cost $5-10,000. And that doesn't include maintaining web site, accounting, figuring sales taxes, etc., etc.)

Any business is work and there isn't a single other industry that has even survived, let along thrived with fixed prices. Even chewing gum raises it's price (and now has premium chewing gum, or so I hear.)

Good bands can always Fugazi it, but those guys work like underpaid factory workers. Takes a lot of the fun out of things.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

What indie labels were 'ruling' 18 years ago? The network that is in place for artists today is light years beyond what was available 18 years ago.

Anyone on this thread that thinks Trent owe's his label anything beyond what was agreed to contractually either works at a label or knows squat about the business.

neither of those mister abusive.

As for ruling indies of the late eighties and early nineties - where you actually there? Can you not remember Creation records? Mute? Virgin? Subpop? Factory? Rough Trade? Can you not remember acts such as Sonic Youth? The Stone Roses? Happy Mondays? The Smiths? Primal Scream? Depeche Mode? Public Enemy?

None of these acts could ever hope to do what they did nearly twenty years ago in the modern climate - it was when independants had the ability to chart records - sell them even, tour, make statements.... now they've all been bought up by majors - yes even good old Daniel Miller and Mute. Indies cant compete at all..... artists in it for expression and making statements (however bogus some of them may be and however much one can agree/disagree) are washed away by the mediocre bland blah blah music perpetuated by the majors AND by a strange coincidence undermined by NIN and Radiohead devaluing the artistic product! I applaud Rez n Yorke for their forward thinking vision - but perhaps they should have thought about it further - for every stabbing wound they've made at their ex mothers in majors, they've made similar slashing wounds to what remains of the independant sector - the only bit that truly IS about art and creativity. Thats MY beef with it..... action without thought...

Ten years ago I made my own contribution to the majors non-music. I took a huge advance from EMI and they put out a record which did okay. So I did my selfish bit. With parts of that money I also put out records for unknown artists and help fund a studio in the area so that artists could work who dont have money ( i still do this now!!). The artists kept the masters - i gave them to them. No acts got massive but underground stoner rockers like the Domes of Silence or electro punkers Six Ray Sun (now sadly defunct) or a label like Shifty Disco wouldnt have been able to even operate - they'd have had no product!


As an aside - how can you both work at a label and know squat about the business.......It makes no sense!

[jomo1234]

Firstly...you REALLY need to make a distinction between the US and UK. Labels like Factory, Creation and Mute are not household names in the US like they are in the UK. The indie charts have always had a major influence in the UK, and artists on indie labels (i.e. Depeche Mode) were always farmed out to major labels here in the US. So while bands like Oasis, New Order, Stone Roses are released on indies in the UK, they were never 'indie' bands in the U.S. I think that will clear up some confusion for US readers.

Originally Posted by narcoman

neither of those mister abusive.

As for ruling indies of the late eighties and early nineties - where you actually there? Can you not remember Creation records? Mute? Virgin? Subpop? Factory? Rough Trade? Can you not remember acts such as Sonic Youth? The Stone Roses? Happy Mondays? The Smiths? Primal Scream? Depeche Mode? Public Enemy?

None of these acts could ever hope to do what they did nearly twenty years ago in the modern climate - it was when independants had the ability to chart records - sell them even, tour, make statements.... now they've all been bought up by majors - yes even good old Daniel Miller and Mute. Indies cant compete at all..... artists in it for expression and making statements (however bogus some of them may be and however much one can agree/disagree) are washed away by the mediocre bland blah blah music perpetuated by the majors AND by a strange coincidence undermined by NIN and Radiohead devaluing the artistic product! I applaud Rez n Yorke for their forward thinking vision - but perhaps they should have thought about it further - for every stabbing wound they've made at their ex mothers in majors, they've made similar slashing wounds to what remains of the independant sector - the only bit that truly IS about art and creativity. Thats MY beef with it..... action without thought...

Ten years ago I made my own contribution to the majors non-music. I took a huge advance from EMI and they put out a record which did okay. So I did my selfish bit. With parts of that money I also put out records for unknown artists and help fund a studio in the area so that artists could work who dont have money ( i still do this now!!). The artists kept the masters - i gave them to them. No acts got massive but underground stoner rockers like the Domes of Silence or electro punkers Six Ray Sun (now sadly defunct) or a label like Shifty Disco wouldnt have been able to even operate - they'd have had no product!


As an aside - how can you both work at a label and know squat about the business.......It makes no sense!

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Sigma

ohh man that's funny ..i was there when he was doing his demo stuff..exotic birds ..damn why is that sticking in my head so much?

hmm i wonder if i have a demo somewhere

the studio owner took me in the room TR was working in on that and played me some stuff so i am fairly certain he knew what was going on

look at Annie De Franco she shunned labes early on when she coulda just taken th eeasy route

I didn't want to correct the other poster but alas you are right. The owner gave him permission to record after hours. I remember him mentioning that it only cost him a little wear on his tape heads... That was making the demo single, "Down in It" or Halo 01 Pretty Hate Machine not Broken. Broken sounds quite a bit more "professional" to me...