ARE ANY OF YOU (STILL) USING NOISE-GATES ?

[jbjoubaud]

Hello,
I'm kind of new in the world of recording since I'm only 25 and so I have never worked with tape mags... my point being that it is really easy to chop off tracks and I usually would rather spend a week or so cleanning the drums rather than taking a few minutes to set up noise-gates (I don't have much hardware/money, so I'd have to use plug-ins)
Am I just wasting precious time, or can this be justified ?
Thank you in advance for you time and wisdom...
Best regards
JB

[rcm]

I use gates all the time. well not all the time, just all the time when mixing.

[jbjoubaud]

Ok so I'm basicaly wasting time when I'm spending so many hours cleaning the snares ?
Do you use plug-in, units just to gate or pieces like the Drawmer DL241 that have the gate option?
Thanks again
JB

[vernier]

I'll patch in a Drawmer once in a while, either in an emergency or as trigger effect.

[Farshad]

Waves SSL E-channel plug-n. I use it all the time on most of the tracks. Cleans up the mix.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by patrox247

... good analog gates can add punch to sources.

agreed, i've yet to hear a plug that pops as satisfactorily as a drawmer or kepex. it's the analog vs. digital argument that never was...


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[rcm]

for me its drawmer or analog SSL for kick and snare type duties. I use plug in gates for fun triggering tricks but not crazy about how they sound on drums. At least the ones I have used.

[studilaroche]

Yes. In the analog realm, it's hard to beat a Drawmer DS201. Great filters and control. In the digital realm, I find that just about any gate is fine; I typically use the stock Digi Gate - the older one. In fact, I had one on a kick drum earlier, really emphasizing the punch and attack of the kick. Gates are one area I don't need much 'vibe/color'. A gate that works properly will either give it to you or it won't. In my experience.
Sometimes I'll go through and edit out noise/space between tom hits/etc, but sometimes it's groovier to use a gate. Lately, it's been a lot more gates. Whatever gets 'the' sound, right?
Ben

[Rufuss Sewell]

I don't like gates because they can cut off the quiet notes and let through bleed on louder notes. I find it much more flexible to edit out the space between hits myself. It doesn't take very long (more like minutes than weeks) if you use some kind of strip silence. In Logic and Pro Tools it's very easy. I mainly use Logic. Just strip silence... fix the stuff that needs fixing, and add batch fades. Then if I want a longer release, I just drag all of the regions and increase the fade out.

[jbjoubaud]

nice... could you tell me a little more about the "strip silence", I've never heard of that (or maybe I did but not in english terms). Is it an option you have in Logic and PT, cause I use DP5 so...
Anyways, thank you all for the enlightening about the use(s) of Gates !!

[dubrichie]

balls to the lot of you!

bleed is your FRIEND!

set everyone set up in the room properly, mic properly, get them to play properly and gates won't even occur to you.

it just sounds so unnatural (TO ME) for the bleed / "GEL" of the mix to be cut out and punched back in all the time... by gates.

again, i tell you, bleed is your FRIEND!

and im only 25 too!

[ssaudio]

If you understand how to use a real gate, like a DS201, then you can have as much or as little bleed as you like; the functionality is there, it's not all open or closed - you really shouldn't boast about your naivety you know

That aside, they are one of the most creative boxes in the studio with a countless number of other uses

[CKK]

No gates here. In the 80's I have spend countless hours tweaking nice/natural sounding drumkits to the point it dosnt even sound like "real" drums anymore.

Thank God/Budha/Jehova etc. times has changed - now a drumkit sounds like a drumkit.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by studilaroche

Yes. In the analog realm, it's hard to beat a Drawmer DS201. Great filters and control. In the digital realm, I find that just about any gate is fine; I typically use the stock Digi Gate - the older one. In fact, I had one on a kick drum earlier, really emphasizing the punch and attack of the kick. Gates are one area I don't need much 'vibe/color'. A gate that works properly will either give it to you or it won't. In my experience.
Sometimes I'll go through and edit out noise/space between tom hits/etc, but sometimes it's groovier to use a gate. Lately, it's been a lot more gates. Whatever gets 'the' sound, right?
Ben

In LE at least, the older Digi gate doesn't induce latency, the new one does.

Personally I edit tom hits, use gates occasionally on kick snare, and edit vocals by hand.

Never liked strip silence.

To the OP - if you find yourself doing a lot of editing kick/snare by hand, but find gating too inconsistent (ie you can't find the right threshold level) you could try a hybrid approach - set a fairly lightly triggered gate, and only edit out the unwanted bits that "pop" through the gates.

Be aware though that using gates can change the transients of the sound quite a bit (hence others talking about using them to add punch etc) - which may be a good or bad thing.

[666666]

When in the box, you can easily clean out noise via editing, thus gates not truly needed. But if you do out of the box analog work, gates can come in handy.

I've found that "cheaper" analog gates indeed have a sound, sometimes a very bad sound. Though Drawmers are popular and generally work ok, I was never overly impressed with these.

I've been searching for a while for the ultimate gate, one that SOUNDS good as well as works good, and I finally found it... the API 235L gate module for the 200 series rack. These modules do not have as many features as some of the Drawmers and other fancy units, but at least you can feel good about shoving a critically important signal through one as it will not degrade the signal.... unlike some other popular gate units. And though the 235L appears small and simple without a load of bells and whistles, they are more capable than you think and always seem to get the job done with flying colors. I can't live without them.

API 235L Discrete Channel Noise Gate

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by ssaudio

If you understand how to use a real gate, like a DS201, then you can have as much or as little bleed as you like; the functionality is there, it's not all open or closed - you really shouldn't boast about your naivety you know

That aside, they are one of the most creative boxes in the studio with a countless number of other uses

ah here,

just a bit of off-kilter humour!

it was 9 / 10 in the morning and i was trying to wind down after an all-nighter in the studio.

naive? perhaps. tongue in cheek? certainly.

[ryanojohn]

I would never say the use of gates would allow you to negate cleaning up your original drum sounds... Keep your snares as clean as possible, and tune the kit so that everything has it's own note, and nothing rings other drums... Gates are just a tool to help you along... but you might as well start with the cleanest best sound possible

[theblue1]

Don't like the way realtime gates sound on drums. I hate that 'tucked under' sound of the missing transient edge.

[vernier]

Theres different uses ...the abrupt cut-off a snare sound, or removing clutter in quiet spaces, or using a signal from one track to trigger another ..i.e. kick drum triggering bass, or one vocal triggering background vocals so they all start at the exact time. For analog multi-track, they come in handy.

[chrisj]

Actually I just released a product that IS a kind of noise gate- Gatelope. Instead of doing a volume ramp, it sweeps a filter or two across the sound, but not a 'wow-chicka-wow' type filter, a really transparent low-order filter. It can be used to sweep a LPF down for things like toms or to retain the rumble of a sustaining kick while cutting bleed, or to sweep a HPF up which really does gate the lows of drums and tighten them way up but without also gating the highs and mids. It's like you get to put a magic ring damper on everything at once, and adjust it in mix.

This is it sweeping a HPF up triggered by the drums-
Original track- http://www.mediafire.com/?721wxyhrqz2
Gatelope- http://www.mediafire.com/?99bwz5m5ij5

Yes you can do both at once- then it'll converge on a frequency range somewhere, of your choosing.

So far zero downloads on the latter because it's that new, so you might be the first person ever to hear this effect :D

To answer the question: HELL YES I STILL USE GATES, GATES RULE :D

[themaidsroom]

yes

[jbjoubaud]

Amazing stuff Chris !
Did you apply the effect on every track ? (Is it a plug-in by the way?)

[sluttygearhere]

What I normally do, with drums anyway, is run the gates on the way in. I usually set the release so that it still rings out a little longer then it normally would in the final mix. Then I will normally stick a plugin gate on it with a very light threshold and release on it just to tighten it up a little bit and get rid of as much noise as possible. Then I take it and clean up anything that is missed by the gate with editing. This method has always worked great for me. The downside is you have to have a lot of analog gates. Not a problem for me .. but for some it might be.

-- Ben

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

What I normally do, with drums anyway, is run the gates on the way in. I usually set the release so that it still rings out a little longer then it normally would in the final mix. Then I will normally stick a plugin gate on it with a very light threshold and release on it just to tighten it up a little bit and get rid of as much noise as possible. Then I take it and clean up anything that is missed by the gate with editing. This method has always worked great for me. The downside is you have to have a lot of analog gates. Not a problem for me .. but for some it might be.

-- Ben

you're TRACKING drums with gates?

That's got to be playing with fire...not only is it fairly pointless but you risk wrecking a great take if the gate doesn't trigger at any point.

the 2nd part makes more sense - it's the same sort of thing I descibred above.

[sluttygearhere]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

you're TRACKING drums with gates?

That's got to be playing with fire...not only is it fairly pointless but you risk wrecking a great take if the gate doesn't trigger at any point.

the 2nd part makes more sense - it's the same sort of thing I descibred above.

how is it pointless? i always get my sounds the way i want them and print them when i track. i dont use the gates to prevent bleed through i use them to control overtones and ring out. its the same purpose of using them in a live situation. the risk of it ruining a take isnt even plausible. i know many an engineer who do it this way.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by jbjoubaud

Amazing stuff Chris !
Did you apply the effect on every track ? (Is it a plug-in by the way?)

Usually you have to apply gates on individual tracks, but that is being applied over the whole mix- the overheads, cymbals are just as subject to it, but it's triggered very high so only the kick and snare can actually trigger it.

Yes, it's a plugin- it's a universal binary Audio Unit. Logic guys, also some other platforms like Live and Digital Performer, or people using stuff like Plogue Bidule can use it.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by sluttygearhere

how is it pointless? i always get my sounds the way i want them and print them when i track. i dont use the gates to prevent bleed through i use them to control overtones and ring out. its the same purpose of using them in a live situation. the risk of it ruining a take isnt even plausible. i know many an engineer who do it this way.

Well, it's pointless because it can just as easily be done afterwards.

Comparing with live sound isn't really relevant - there's lots of things that need to be done in live sound that don't in the studio. They're 2 different beasts really - same building blocks, different aims. I've never assisted on a tracking session where a gate was printed on the way in whilst tracking drums. Though I have worked on a session where we had to repair the drums where the gate hadn't been set correctly, and were destroying the transients of the toms and kick (and missing out hits on occasion too).

That's the danger of ruining a take - it certainly IS plausible. Of course, you're going to say you set your gates on the safe side, so there's no chance of any tom hits being missed (although you are shaping the sound of the gated drum to tape).

I still say it's fairly pointless, you might as well do it whilst mixing, and then you've got the option of using the overtones if you want. There's no benefit of tracking with them (unlike say compression - although there's arguments against that now too).

If you pretty much mix as you track, and always mix any material you track, then I guess it's whatever works for you. But if not, or if you send any material off to be mixed by anyone else, I'd strongly suggest not tracking with gates.

[manthe]

Originally Posted by u b k

agreed, i've yet to hear a plug that pops as satisfactorily as a drawmer or kepex. it's the analog vs. digital argument that never was...


gregoire
del
ubk
.

I have 2 Keepex IIs that I love and use often. Up until several months ago, I would have agreed with you 100%. That was until I used the Drumstrip plug-in for the SSL Duende.

I really believe it would change your mind about this. It has for me, big time.

Not only does it rival the sound and performance of the hardware gates, but it also has the other tools to enhance it even further. The transient shaper on Drumstrip is as good as any I've heard in hardware-land too.

I know I might get flamed for this, but unless you hear and use it for yourself, you'll never know. It really is amazing!

I still use my Keepex IIs for tracking sometimes....but honestly they are seeing much less use. I bought Drumstrip a couple of months ago. I can see phasing out hardware gates for drums almost completely if/when I get a second Duende.

For noisy guitar stomp boxes, hardware gates still rule!