Reamping Guitars Radial J48

[suburbansoul]

As an experiment, I recorded some guitar tracks with a Radial J48 as part of a reamping test. For curiousity's sake I recorded both the XLR "output" from the J48 as well as the "thru" output to 2 different tracks. Normally, the "thru" track would go straight to the amp.

The track that was recorded via the XLR output would eventually be used to reamp later.

However, I noticed that the XLR track vs. the Thru track sound nothing alike. The XLR track had much more midrange bite. While it sounded great it didn't represent what I want. I wanted a neutral accurate representation of the output of the guitar for reamping later.

I guess if I were actually using the XLR track as an actual track or for blending tones in the mix, I'd be ecstatic. But for my purposes, I think I may have bought the wrong DI.
Does anyone have recommendations for a more neutral DI that is a more accurate represtation? Should I have bought a passive DI? Or is it something else all together? Sorry for the obtuse explanation.

Thanks!

Charlie

[Sensual Ears]

you do realize that you're running the DI into a PREAMP, right?

use a super clean neutral & detailed preamp and you'll have what you are looking for

[guitardom]

hello, having a basic understanding of this stuff, how you recorded the "thru" input is the deciding factor. the signal coming out of the "thru" output will be at a instrument level (for a amp input) and the xlr will be a line level signal, completly different impedance levels which could have a profound effect of the recording.

a more detailed description is needed on how you did this test. i own a j48 and an xamp so would be glad to try this as well.

[Kiwiburger]

Seems to me that you are hearing the differences caused by incorrect (or just different) impedance matching.

I don't own the J48 (got 4 JDI instead) ... but it appears to me that the Thru output is buffered, hi-z. So this will slightly change the loading on your guitar, and also going into your amp, compared to direct from guitar to amp. Shouldn't be a huge difference - and arguably better than a simple paralled connection.

The XLR output is obviously the line level low-z balanced output, which is the whole purpose of a DI box.

Seems to me that you are comparing two very different signal, in terms of level and impedance. Whatever recording channels you are using will respond differently to these major variations.

It's a given that the simple buffered output will be slightly cleaner than the line level balanced output - simply because there is more components in the balanced circuit path. By the time you have recorded this with your DAW, through A/D and D/A and then back thru a proper reamp box (you do have a proper DI box??) the signal is going to be degraded slightly more.

BUT - that's a given with reamping. There is always some overhead. I believe your J48 will be about as transparent as you can get for reamp work.

Embrace the difference.

Many of my favorite tones were not created with a direct Guitar-to-amp connection. Active boxes, such as treble boosters, or The Edge's Korg delay preamp etc are not significantly different from using a DI/Reamp.

Just consider your DI/Reamp path to be the first stage - and maybe exploit the possibilites (of more gain, or using studio compressors, eq in the path).

It will never be exactly the same as a direct guitar-to-amp - but it should still be good and useable - maybe even better.

With guitar tones, sometimes "degradation" is better. Everything changes when that clean, dry signal hits your amp. I wouldn't even be too worried about some midrange accenuation - because the whole purpose of the amp and cab is to ditch the extreme highs and lows. And tube distortion adds harmonics back into the signal ... it's all one giant distortion matrix anyhow.

My theory: I tend to like the higher gain and eq and flexibility of amps that have lots of tubes - but I hate the accumulation of noise that the extra tubes bring. My thinking is to use guitar amps with less tubes, and use the DI/Reamp chain to provide the extra gain and flexibility, with far less noise than an extra tube stage.

[Sensual Ears]

good point kiwi...

did you record the 1/4" into a hi-z instrument input on the same pre you used for the XLR output?

and focus more on DOES IT SOUND GOOD WHEN REAMPED COMPARED TO GTR > AMP ?

[suburbansoul]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Here's a more detailed description of my experiment. I guess I should have been more precise in putting together this comparison before exposing myself to the slutz world!

A.
I recorded a live guitar track --> J48 --> XLR line level output --> Neve Preamp (XLR input) -->Apogee A/D --> DAW

B.
I recorded another live guitar track this time --> J48 --> high Z output --> Neve Preamp (1/4 DI input) --> Apogee A/D --> DAW

For reamping, my intention was:

C.
DAW --> Apogee D/A --> REAMP (John Cuniberti) --> Guitar Amp etc.

I also did the following:

D.
DAW --> Apogee D/A --> REAMP --> J48 --> high Z output --> Neve Preamp (1/4 DI input) --> Apogee A/D --> DAW

A and B sounded very different. Again, so much more midrange in A. I understand that we're dealing with different signals so it's to be expected.
I also compared D to B to see if that was a better comparison. Obviously there's a whole slew of extra A/D etc but I was just curious. I know it's a wholly inaccurate comparison.

Really, the experiment I should have conducted was to actually record the amp miced up via the the high Z output of the J48. Then I should have taken the original line level signal, sent it to the REAMP and back to the amp miced up with the same settings. Then compare. Are they the same? Or does one sound better than the other?

I've reamped many times with great results. Till now, I've never questioned the process. I've always just assumed that reamping wasn't exactly the same as straight to the amp but it was close enough. In the end, I knew everything sounded fine.

So you're absolutley right that different doesn't mean bad. Embracing the difference is wholly acceptable. Focusing on whether it sounds good is sound advice but I wanted to take the time to understand the difference as well.

I guess I was just surprised at how different the 2 signals actually sounded. It certainly wasn't an apples to apples test so sorry for the non-scientific test.

Thanks for the help.

p.s.

Slightly change the loading on your guitar will change its tone by going High Z vs straight to amp. Can you be more specific as to the difference in tone? Again, thanks for your help.

[rwhitney]

For clarity, shouldn't this be?:

A.
I recorded a live guitar track --> J48 --> XLR **microphone** level output (not "line") --> Neve Preamp (XLR input--**now it's line level**) -->Apogee A/D --> DAW

Isn't it the preamp's function to bring the xlr input up to line level? I think it's important for beginners who may read this to understand that the signal coming out of the DI XLR isn't "line level" yet.

[dnaflr2]

Interested to know why alot of you guys are using a DI and reamp- In theory it's possible to send a line level into a JDI backwards and output it as a hiZ on 1/4" TS. Has anyone tried this?

[darkwater]

MW1. Unbelievable results. Period.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by dnaflr2

Interested to know why alot of you guys are using a DI and reamp- In theory it's possible to send a line level into a JDI backwards and output it as a hiZ on 1/4" TS. Has anyone tried this?

Yeah I have the JDI and I demoed the X-amp in comparison and there was no comparison. I re-amp strictly through the X-amp now and not the JDI run backwards. Vastly more clarity and tone. You have to dial everything in right though.