Tom Mic Shootout-M179, RE20, 421, 57, SM7, SM81, BBB

[over-man]

I recently picked up a CAD m179 after reading War's posts recommending them over the 421 for use on toms. I typically use an RE20 on the floor, a 421 on the middle tom, and 57s on any extras. The 421 is cool, but I really don't care for it on much else, save for the occasional kick drum and bass cab, so I didn't want to buy another one if something else was better for less money.

So far I'm really impressed with the M179. In fact, I preferred it over all of the mics in the test. It sounded the most like the tom did in the actual room, with good punch and a solid round sound. Thanks War!

For the test I used the M179, RE20, 421, 57, SM7, SM81, and a Blue Baby Bottle into a Blue Kiwi Cable, to a Presonus Firepod (opting for the lesser pre-amp instead of a Chameleon labs 7622 or UA 610, hoping to reveal greater differences between the mics...), converted by an hd24XR into Logic 7. The files are 256k mp3s, ~4 tom hits a piece, and pretty close in loudness, though not matched exactly, so adjust accordingly.

All mics were placed about 2" above the outer shell of a poorly tuned, POS pearl floor tom with bad heads, angled slightly toward the center of the head. I did the test in my control room, since I didn't have an assistant with me... What I really mean is, I don't have an assistant.

I'd love to hear a little feedback. I almost didn't want to share, keep this little gem to myself, but that just wouldn't be in the true spirit of Gearslutz!

EDIT: I guess there is a maximum of 5 attachments per thread, I'll leave off the 81 and Baby Bottle, although the bottle really had a nice warm sound, not much attack though... 81 wouldn't be practical in most situations since I use them for overheads. They were very clear though, with a huge low end.

[lpkyer]

There really is a major difference with the m179. Good shootout.

[theom]

If you get the chance,

Years ago I did a shootout with u87 421 (live mic ubiquitous shure sm98 hyper gizmo installed, rim mount) and the Audix D4 at Right Track in NYC. Great gretch Kit.

The Audix D4 was a sleeper. Sounded much like the md421. But easier to place and less expensive. I own 4 now.

The Shure 98 was also not nearly as bad as expected. Quite usable really.

The 87 and 421 were as we expected, very good.

I am going to find some of these CAD's to try. Thanks for the post.

[Zeppelin]

I really like the additional top/presence of the M179 compared to the 421. Perhaps because it's a condeser? I usually have to boost some 3-6k with 421s.

[Brad McGowan]

I just recorded drums last weekend with my band. The kit was a vintage Rogers from the 60's...14" floor, 12" rack, both with Coated Ambassadors. I miked them both with the CAD M179, in hypercardioid, pad engaged like Warren recommends. They really do sound like the drum. I really think I'm going to get away with no EQ in the mix. The stick attack is well represented. The body and boom is all there. There's not midrange mud to suck out. I'm so used to reaching for EQ when using 421's. It seems strange to not do so. But those mics sound pretty darn good leaving them alone.

Brad

[bcgood]

SM7 baby, smooth. Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned.

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by bcgood

SM7 baby

same here, though i was impressed with the CAD. the 421 was so poor it's almost like there's a prob with the mic.

[Nu-tra]

I like the CAD and the RE20

[chandlersonic]

I don't know maybe it's me but I couldn't really get over the fact that the tom itself sounds terrible...

None of them sounded good to me, don't mean to be rude or anything but I find it hard to compare mics like that when the source itself is bad, I'd rather have a good souding tom and an sm57 than a U87 on this one...

Anyway thanks for taking the time do this test, it does give an idea of the basic differences between the mics and these shootout threads are always fun!!!!

[druhms]

Amen! Replace the head and tune the thing.
Thanks for the demo though.
Druhms

[True North]

CAD by a mile

the only mic to really capture the low end rumble and nice attack as well

[manthe]

I know it isn't included, and it isn't what this thread is about, but I simply can not get over how good the Heil PR series is on my toms. I have PR30s on my racks and a PR40 on the floor. I simply can not imagine s=anything being better. Equal, sure, different but good, absolutely, but I am *finally* perfectly happy and content with my tom mics!

i am still interested in the CADs. They get a lot of love around here and they are cheap enough to pick up as another flavor option.

Thanks for the shoot out.

[dlmorley]

shame you couldn't have tried a Beyerdynamic M88. KILLS on toms..

[Slaytex]

Very cool.
I just got killer toms this last week using my 4050 and 4047 on my toms. Very big and had a lot of thwack. thumbsup

[tarnationsauce]

Don't forget about the CAD M177.
It's the cheaper, cardioid only version. Otherwise they are the same.

For instance at 8th street mucic:
179 is $199 no shockmount
177 is $99 + free shockmount

Not that those are the best prices on the net, but it was an example of the pricing difference.

BTW, the CAD M17* mics are pretty good on vox too.

[Nu-tra]

I got my cad m179's from front end for $189 with shockmount and i think a pop filter.
Dope tom mics for sure. I have 8 of them!

[r0ck1r0ck2]

damn...!

you got me beat..i've only got four of the ****ers..

[jeronimo]

I didn't like any.
Differences on the "performance" are not subtle and this pretty much make the test worthless TO ME!!!!!!
Thanks for taking the time to do it, it probably helped a lot of people.
If I had to choose, I would take the CAD or the SM-7

[Clayphish]

Seeing that the tom isn't sounding very good (on its own), it makes me wonder what mic would be better if it was. I do appreciate the time put into the test, but unless there is a better top head on it and its better tuned, the shootout is a bit meaningless.

[warhead]

First of all thanks to all of you in this thread who (A) took my advice and (B) let us take care of you on M179 packages!

Secondly, I still haven't found anything to replace them and I get to hear lots of mics. They simply rule, and as room mics and outer kick drum mics they are astounding. The multi patterns come in handy for those uses as well.

Enjoy!

War

[manthe]

Originally Posted by warhead

First of all thanks to all of you in this thread who (A) took my advice and (B) let us take care of you on M179 packages!

Secondly, I still haven't found anything to replace them and I get to hear lots of mics. They simply rule, and as room mics and outer kick drum mics they are astounding. The multi patterns come in handy for those uses as well.

Enjoy!

War

Have you tried the Heil PR series? The 30 and 40 are TOPS. I am very anxcious to try the CADs, but it is very hard for me to imagine something sweeter than the PR30s and 40s!

[muzikhead]

Thanks very much for the shooting. Definitely an ear opener. The CAD's sounds fantastic. The 421 sounds the worst of the bunch but they do sound very focused.
I was wondering how the CADs perform when the whole set is being played? (leakage etc.) How well they take noise gate/comp/eq and how well they blend with over-heads and room mics?

War, do you ship intl'?

[lpkyer]

I,ve just listened to the M88 on toms from the studio auditions website and wow they sound promising

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by warhead

First of all thanks to all of you in this thread who (A) took my advice and (B) let us take care of you on M179 packages!

Secondly, I still haven't found anything to replace them and I get to hear lots of mics. They simply rule, and as room mics and outer kick drum mics they are astounding. The multi patterns come in handy for those uses as well.

Enjoy!

War

So Warren, do you have an opinion on the 179 vs. the 177? How close is the sound to the 179 in cardioid?

[amishsixstringe]

The CAD seems to be the only mic on there that has a different envelope. It actually sounds like it has a slow attack/fast release compressor on it that pumps a bit. Sounds a little odd to me. How is bleed with those mics? I always thought the M179 was the ugliest microphone ever created as well. They really turn me off. I liked the RE20 more I think. (not just aesthetics here) The 57 just reminded me of how much I don't like 57's for anything these days.


Neil

[china jam]

I'd go with the SM7 or 421, though this shootout would be more useful if we were hearing the whole kit or at least a less comical tom sound.

[espen askelad]

I've only had my 179s a month or so but I've found them to be really useful mics. Toms, obviously, and have used them for various other peculiar positions on the kit where I thought it'd be fun to play with the multiple patterns for odd combinations of pickup sources... undersnare/kick batter, fig 8 on two shells, that sort of thing. I've yet to really try it out on other sources to see how they stack up as "regular" mics, but just for the pickup patterns they're great for adding some extra flavor to drumkits.

[allencollins]

M179 is like twice the level of the others
Did the drummer hit with the same velocity on all samples?
that would be pretty much impossible

not a very acurate test?

[warhead]

Originally Posted by muzikhead

How well they take noise gate/comp/eq and how well they blend with over-heads and room mics?

War, do you ship intl'?

Dialed into hypercardioid with the pad engaged is the deal, they reject the rest of the kit as well as any hypercardioid dynamic or condensor I've used (actually tighter).

We ship internationally daily.

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

So Warren, do you have an opinion on the 179 vs. the 177? How close is the sound to the 179 in cardioid?

I use them in hypercardioid as they provide maximum rejection which is perfect for tom use.

Originally Posted by manthe

Have you tried the Heil PR series? The 30 and 40 are TOPS. I am very anxcious to try the CADs, but it is very hard for me to imagine something sweeter than the PR30s and 40s!

I have not tried those on toms yet.

War

[patrox247]

LOL! The 421's were the worst. Too funny!