Best drum kit for small studio

[halljams]

I am researching what kind of small kit to get for my studio.
It needs to be as versatile as possible.
I want to spend roughly $2000 US or less.


I have heard conflicting opinions from drummers so far as to which is better and less trouble for ringing etc and easiest to tune. One says get bigger(not deeper) and the other says smaller shells.
I am a stupid guitar player so...... I'm lost.

The goal is to have a good kit that i know is in good shape and ready to go with 2 or 3 different sets of heads. Basic cymbals but not great as i will assume each drummer will bring their favs, but i do want 2 different hat sets, one crisp and bright and one that can be beaten to death.
I have one decent size room and one really small drum booth and the kit has to fit into the booth occasionally.
It was also reccomended i get a deep snare and a piccolo.

Are these new beginner kits from yamaha really as good as i hear?


Whatchya all think about the subject?

[brownmouse]

i prefer birch to maple. i have a tama starclassic performer birch kit (18x22 kik, 10,12,14 toms) that everyone seems to like when they come in. of course there are probably several dozen other kits that will fit the bill nicely.
good luck,
joshua

[Auxillary]

Very small, but sounds HUGE and is very, very controllable. Yamaha Manu Katche. Certainly a studio secret. Many number of albums have been done with this drum kit, and its my set of choice for anything.

[edyer]

I second the star classics. Very versatile they can be tuned high or low and then a set of sabian aas studio version for the cymbals or hhx if you can spend the extra money. Midwest percussion is a good guage for prices.

[jpaudio]

I've had the best results from Yamaha Maple Customs. Tried an Oak custom once and while it sounded good, had a unique thing happening that may not be called for all the time.

[LTA]

Birch or maple are great. Pretty much any of the major manufacturers make a great kit in the 2k price range (but i will still say go for the Starclassic Performers). Maple shells cost more only because the raw material is signifigantly more expensive than birch.

Look for an 18" deep kick. 22" or 20" would be personal preference, but a 24" one is probably not as versatile.

10, 12, 14 or 12, 14, 16 toms would be something to look for. The old standard 12, 13, 16 toms have a problem, in that the 12 and 13 are too close in pitch. You may never notice it till you tune and play with a 12, 14, 16" kit. Long story short, try to keep the sizes between toms at 2" or more.

The piccolo-style crack is currently in fashion big-time. Even a 13x4 snare will get you there. IMHO, wood-shelled piccolos sound better when tuned up tight.

Now, for a deeper snare: You can't go wrong with a ludwig black beauty. At the same time, Acrolites just rawk (and are CHEAP). Maybe a 14x5 acrolite, and if you have money left over get a 6.5" deep black beauty. Snare is the most influential part of a kit, so getting a nice snare or 3 to go with a lower end yet quality kit will get you farther faster and for less money.

Now for cymbals: Think smaller thinner brighter. Don't take this literally, but you might be happy with 13" hats, 15 and 17" crashes, and a 20" ride. Don't get into the glitzy stuff like chinas and splashes and swooshes just yet. Brands aren't important; sound is. Don't be afraid to mix brands either. And of course, make sure your potential cymbal purchase sounds good played with your other cymbals. Cymbals may not have definite pitch, but that doesn't mean you can't pick out cymbals with complementing tessitura's. If you hit the used market, you can also get a variety of sounds for the price of a single new cymbal.

(first post, and its a long one lol)

[studjo]

Originally posted by LTA

(first post, and its a long one lol)

and a useful too btw (except the Tama stuff but I'm a Yamaha guy )

keep posting Jo

[not_so_new]

Now for cymbals: Think smaller thinner brighter.

I read and very much agree with everything LTA said except..... I strongly disagree with bright cymbals for recording (your mileage may and will vary).

I hate when some cat comes in and has these buzzy high end cymbals, they always, always, always sound cheap and thin when recorded, at least to me. Funny thing about recording and I am sure we have all noticed it but microphones "hear" differently than we do. Yes you have to start with a great sound in the room but just because you have a great sound in the room that does not automatically translate to a great sounding track. Sometimes things like bright cymbals sound way cool in a room but the mics don't see it exactly the same way and it all gets lost in translation.

It could just be my taste or I am screwing up the mics or mic placement but I never get a good sound from thin cymbals. They wash out in a mix and should horrid. If I have my pick I would always go with DARK cymbals, some people literally bury them in the ground for a few days to get them to darken and I am all for it if it works.

Now do not get me wrong they still need to have tone and yes like LTA said they need to match the rest of the cymbals but I would caution against bright and would lean in the dark department especially if we are talking about a session kit that has to wear many hats.

Just my buck fiddy.

[RKrizman]

I just picked up a used Gretsch maple kit for about 2k that I am very happy with. I had the seller put "rims" on the toms and I picked up a new DW kick pedal, and he tossed in a Ludwig Black Beauty snare. If you live in a major recording center you might try doing what I did. I called an excellent session drummer friend of mine and asked him to put a kit together for me. (All these guys are collectors and their wives always like to see one less kit around the house.) Then, of course, I hired him for the first session.

-R

[LTA]

Originally posted by not_so_new
I strongly disagree with bright cymbals for recording (your mileage may and will vary).
....
If I have my pick I would always go with DARK cymbals, some people literally bury them in the ground for a few days to get them to darken and I am all for it if it works.

We get to rebut here, right?

I probably should have used a different word for bright, but shimmerier just sounds stupid. So replace bright for shimmer.

Now, a zildjian K medium thin dark crash will have more high end then a manhole cover. The K, even vintage ones that have been buried in the dirt or just never cleaned, still have plenty of high end shimmer. That shimmer just decays quicker, resulting in the dark designation. There are still plenty of highs in that cymbal though. A dead cymbal would be one with little high frequency response.

The statement was more to dissuade buying something like a 20" Z custom projection crash. It doesn't matter if the guy in pearl jam uses them, they just aren't versatile and are fairly boring to listen to. These cymbals need to be ABUSED to get a decent sound out of them.

Get yourself a nice set of K's or A's (not customs) and be happy I dig the darker cymbals too. This whole post is just opinion though. Not even worth a nickel e.

[not_so_new]

Again I agree with evgerything LTA said and this time with no "but" attached. K's or A's are the way to go. Yes they will all have some high end to them but too much sizzel is bad for a recording (and your ears). I think LTA and I are in agreement here.

Again take it with a grain of salt because I have only been playing drums seriously for 10 / 12 years or so, I am really a guitar player (20 ish years)..

[sonic dogg]

A's and K's are the way to go....for the kit......lately I'm completely enamoured with the Alegra drumsets.Hand tuned and finished.....the snares are the serious shite.....think Max W. on the latest Springstein CD.

[edyer]

Quote "I hate when some cat comes in and has these buzzy high end cymbals, they always, always, always sound cheap and thin when recorded, at least to me. Funny thing about recording and I am sure we have all noticed it but microphones "hear" differently than we do."
Microphones do hear differently .
I played on Zildians for a long time
Zildians As and Ks are cool but Sabian has taken cymbals to a new level in my opinion. The HHX line is good for recording and live and whatever. The evolutions are amazing sounding. The ride is a little like a crash but is hammered to a nice shimmer and fits well in most places. Of course that's just my opinion. And no I don't sell em.

[LTA]

Originally posted by edyer
Quote I played on Zildians for a long time
Zildians As and Ks are cool but Sabian has taken cymbals to a new level in my opinion.

Zildjian A = Sabian AA
Zildjian K = Sabian HH

These zildjians and sabians are both made out of b20 bronze with similar/identical tooling. Sabians and Zildjians are literally the same family e. Stay away from brilliant finishes from both manufacturers IMO you exchange tone for presentation.

Any Paiste fans want to add their opinions?

[fatty]

not that i know a hell of a lot about cymbals but bosforus (not sure of the spelling) have really impressed me. they have far more of an "old school" tone than the current big name brands.

[chrisso]

Originally posted by LTA
Stay away from brilliant finishes from both manufacturers IMO you exchange tone for presentation.

Well someone else has to come along and disagree with you don't they!!
My whole set up is 'brilliant finish' and they sound identical to the non brilliant versions (I've tried them both as I am an endorser).
I agree on the level that I wouldn't pay extra for a fancy finish.....total waste of money.
The best value good quality cymbals are old Zildjian A's (50's thru 80's).
I picked up a pair of 70's New Beat hi-hats and they kill my modern endorser sets. These old A Zildjians are nicely priced as oppossed to the K's which are highly collectable. But in general, most of the big 3 (Paiste, Sabian and Zildjian) make nice recording cymbals.
As others have said, all the big companies make nice recording kits. I'm told the Yamaha Absolutes are VERY nice.
Again to disagree with LTA a little, I think an 18" bass drum would be a disastrous purchase. Very unversatile.
22" is probably the most used and versatile.
Same goes with snares.....5" - 6.5" depths are most common. Old Ludwig Supra's are relatively cheap on Ebay and are recognised as a studio standard. A piccollo snare is an indulgence IMO. Again, not so versatile.....and hopefully on it's way out of fashion soon!

[halljams]

This is all excellent information guys, i dig the different opinions too.
Thanks so much.

[LTA]

I said 18" deep. I don't think i've seen an 18" diameter x 22" deep kick before, but i may be mistaken.

And what is a supraphonic? If it is a studio standard, and finish doesn't matter, get an acrolite and save even more money. Same drum shell for the most part, but one has chrome. And just because you shouldn't chrome aluminum doesn't mean that isn't the shell material of a supra. Supra's are cool too, but i'm not into pitted chrome.

[chrisso]

Originally posted by LTA
I said 18" deep.

Oh OK. That's Quite deep. I think it's more important to get the diameter right (22" - 24" IMO), but deep is usually good.

Supra's are cool too, but i'm not into pitted chrome.

I thought you said looks didn't matter.
I think Acrolites are a bit sound variable, although most are very good.
The Supra is the most recorded snare (so folklore says).

[PRS1JAZZ]

I actually just got a Pacific LX kit and I am very impressed.... after ripping out all the heads and replacing them.

[not_so_new]

Fatty said

not that i know a hell of a lot about cymbals but bosforus (not sure of the spelling) have really impressed me. they have far more of an "old school" tone than the current big name brands.

I could not agree more!!! My Bosforus reallllly rocked (until I took a nice chunk out of it ). Very cool underrated cymbals IMHO but I only recorded one, mine. It was way cool in the mix not obtrusive but very present. For what it is worth I will be getting another soon, well not too soon but... gear to buy ya kow?? you get the idea.

I also think the HHX stuff is great as well. I have a HHX ride and it tracks like butta, heard a really nice HHX crash at banjo-mart (only visiting with a friend... really) it was the coolest sounding crash in the place and I checked out all the A', K's, what have you. Liked it allot, of course each cymbal has it's own thing going so it could have been an isolated incident.

[LTA]

I thought you said looks didn't matter.

Looks don't matter. Keeping enough cash in my wallet to give me a bad back does.

[johnnyblotter]

Pearl Masters Custom. Both maple and birch versions, they're in the same league as the starclassics but can be had for a lot less. I picked up a 22 kick, 10,12,14 and 16 toms on ebay - not saying ebay is the best for drums - I got lucky, after I sold the 16 I was into the kit for about $700.00. Add a ludwig maple snare, hi hats, hardware, blah blah I was good to go for maybe 13-1400.

What I'd do is look for some deal on a kick and a couple toms. Kick is absolutely crucial - toms not as much so, imo. Somehow even with crappy kits I've coaxed goodness from toms. I'd focus most on kick snare and hats. Track down a nice radio king if you can, I used to have one and it records incredibly well. I sold it some years back and boy do I regret it.

[YuriK]

And what is a supraphonic? If it is a studio standard, and finish doesn't matter, get an acrolite and save even more money. Same drum shell for the most part, but one has chrome. And just because you shouldn't chrome aluminum doesn't mean that isn't the shell material of a supra. Supra's are cool too, but i'm not into pitted chrome.

Iwas under ther impression that Supraphonics are 10lug when the Acrolites are 8, this will change the sound quite abit. Besides a lot of supras are brass when acrolites are alluminium. There is quite a difference

YuriK

[davenutz]

Originally posted by LTA
Any Paiste fans want to add their opinions?

For as much as i love paiste's, ive always found them rather bright to record(...not that i have a large bag of experience to pull from)

The big plus with paiste's is that you can buy two cymbals of the same model, and they will sound almost exactly alike.
In series (signature, etc.) the cymbals all fit very well with each other.

Think signature fast crash, Dark crisp hats. Maybe dimensions dry ride?

If you want to check out a versatile snare, check out a Noble and Cooley 4-3/4x14 Cast aluminium
Sounds like an amazing metal shell with some of the nuances of a very dense wood like oak or maple.

[davemc]

Originally posted by Dr. Nutz
For as much as i love paiste's, ive always found them rather bright to record(...not that i have a large bag of experience to pull from)

The big plus with paiste's is that you can buy two cymbals of the same model, and they will sound almost exactly alike.
In series (signature, etc.) the cymbals all fit very well with each other.

Think signature fast crash, Dark crisp hats. Maybe dimensions dry ride?

If you want to check out a versatile snare, check out a Noble and Cooley 4-3/4x14 Cast aluminium
Sounds like an amazing metal shell with some of the nuances of a very dense wood like oak or maple.

I really like the dark crisp hats, I have some 13" that go out ot a lot of players

[Cornvalley]

Originally posted by Auxillary
Very small, but sounds HUGE and is very, very controllable. Yamaha Manu Katche. Certainly a studio secret. Many number of albums have been done with this drum kit, and its my set of choice for anything.

Any albums in particular? The set looks interesting at least for the portability.

[Mundy]

13" hats are the jam. I use my k/z's on everything from metal to drum n bass.
Noble cooley snares are amazing, but pricey (worth it I think). I enjoy smaller toms and a 22" or 20" kick for recording. a little eq and good mic placement can go a long way (tuning the drums right IS KEY). As far as cymbals and recording thin is in . STAY AWAY FROM Z CUSTOM.

[BackHand]

Originally Posted by LTA

Now, for a deeper snare: You can't go wrong with a ludwig black beauty. At the same time, Acrolites just rawk (and are CHEAP). Maybe a 14x5 acrolite, and if you have money left over get a 6.5" deep black beauty. Snare is the most influential part of a kit, so getting a nice snare or 3 to go with a lower end yet quality kit will get you farther faster and for less money.

I'm going to buy a ludwig snare today , but I'm not really shure of which one. I've been set on a Acrolite 14 x 5 since I've been tipped that they're really good, but then I've heard that the Supraphonic model is the same but better since it got 10 instead of 8 tention screws?!
And then I heard that (I want a really god pop/rock snare!) 14 x 6.5 is the best size and the snare that been mostly reacorded ever was a supraphonic 14 x 6.5?!
And after that I've heard that the Black Beauty is the best snare...so I'm not really sure of what to buy...since I'm not a drummer (the snare is goint to my studio drumset) I need som tips? A acrolite 14 x 6.5? Or a Supraphonic 14 x 6.5? Or 14x 15?!!

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by LTA

And what is a supraphonic? If it is a studio standard, and finish doesn't matter, get an acrolite and save even more money. Same drum shell for the most part, but one has chrome. And just because you shouldn't chrome aluminum doesn't mean that isn't the shell material of a supra. Supra's are cool too, but i'm not into pitted chrome.

I've got a 1966 Ludwig 14" x 5" Keystone Badge Acrolite. It's aluminum. Supraphonics were either Chrome Over Brass, or Metal (Zinc). Bonham's was the 402 Supraphonic in Zinc.

The tonal differences are quite audible to me (and to Bonham, which is why he had a distaste for the Chrome Over Brass variants), and generally speaking, go from relatively mellow (Acrolite), articulate and warm (COB Supraphonic), to bright and cutting (Zinc Supraphonic). They're not the same materials, and are not comparable sounds. That doesn't mean I can't get a bright and cutting sound (single ply head, tuned with the bottom tighter than the top, rimshots hit quite hard), but compared to my old Sonor Designer Series 14" x 5" Maple snare with diecast hoops, the Acrolite simply doesn't posses an intrinsically "bright or cutting" sound. It can be played that way but that's dependent on the drummer and their technique and tuning preferences. Top head too tight and it dries out appreciably and becomes a little "choked".

FWIW, I think the Acrolite is a great drum, but it has a limited tonal range and you won’t get Radio King or stainless steel sounds out of it, I guarantee it.

For some more generalizations, 13” hats may be small, but can be amazingly dominant in a mix (either a good or a bad thing), and won’t get you an open-hat “wash” – I sold my K/Zs because of that exact reason. A 14” pair is a little more versatile, and in terms of volume control, it’s all in the technique.

I agree in the main to stay away from the heavier models of crash and ride. In terms of size, there really aren’t any hard and fast rules for drummers that are able to balance themselves. However, if that’s yet to be mastered, personally I wouldn’t go for anything bigger than a 17” for a crash, and a 20” for a ride. Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste all make good models, but cymbals are very room-reactive, and if your room is bright sounding I’d stay away from the brighter ones, erring on the side of darker ones. Bosphorus do indeed make great cymbals, but are very “traditional” sounding, and generally are preferred by jazz, funk, and blues kinda players, but they too make a heavier lines – Rikki Rockett (Poison) and Ron Welty (the Offspring) use them, so there you go.

Unfortunately, what you’re attempting to do is not too dissimilar to a drummer saying he wants to buy a good “studio” guitar. If you play Les Pauls, then you’ll send him in the direction of the Gibsons, and if you play Tele’s then you’ll send him in the direction of the Fenders. Of course, if you really care about your tone you’ll send him to other manufacturers entirely, but that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.

I used to have a Premier Genista. It was birch, in 22”, 10”, 12”, 14” and 16” sizes. I put RIMS mounts on it, used it on numerous recordings and loaned it for just as many other drummer’s recordings. Everyone liked it, and it got lots of use. I then sold it and have a mongrel of vintage Ludwig and Gretsch, in non-“studio” sizes (my kick is 26” x 14”). I’ve used it for every gig and recording I’ve done, and been asked to loan it out on other people’s recordings too. I think all this proves is that a well tuned, thoughtfully chosen kit – regardless of size and age – will get use and sound good if played well, in a space conducive to drumkit recording, that’s tuned sympathetically and has had attention to detail paid to it.

I’m gonna sound like one of those guy’s that says “It’s really all in the knowledge of how a drum makes sound, what heads, tuning and room-specific variables are able to be manipulated, and the technique of the player…” and not recommend a specific solution to your dilemma. But unfortunately, it’s really all in the knowledge of how a drum makes sound, what heads, tuning and room-specific variables are able to be manipulated, and the technique of the player. Sorry.

Good luck,

bdp